Roofer did shoddy work and has now filed court claim against me

[Ganymede]

Your son can only speak on your behalf with the permission of the Court. There is no guarantee the Judge will allow it though.

[steampowered]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that in small claims his son can represent him without any need for court permission. Please refer to http://legislation.data.gov.uk/uksi/1999/1225/made/data.htm?wrap=true. The only real condition seems to be that kinger must be physically present in the court room.

[Ganymede]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that in small claims his son can represent him without any need for court permission. Please refer to http://legislation.data.gov.uk/uksi/1999/1225/made/data.htm?wrap=true. The only real condition seems to be that kinger must be physically present in the court room.

 

 

 

Depends on the Judge on the day. The Judge may say no and insist the Claimant/Defendant speak for themselves.

[Mike_hawk]

I'm sure this has been discussed before on here but I'm buggered if I can find the source or the outcome. My memory of the thread/s was that the court distinguished between assisting reps and litigating reps... the latter was a reference to costs and the agassi case from a few years back.

 

Will have a dig and see if I can find anything that makes sense.

[Kinger122]

Thank you all for helping. Its not long till the court date now. Can I post the date or shall I still keep things quiet for the time being. Shall I upload all the claimant's particulars? I can do it if anyone wants to see them?

 

I've been trying to find out as well about my son representing me but I have had no success. As my son is a witness as well if the judge does not allow him to represent, can he at least be with me?

[Mike_hawk]

Thank you all for helping. Its not long till the court date now. Can I post the date or shall I still keep things quiet for the time being. Shall I upload all the claimant's particulars? I can do it if anyone wants to see them?

 

I've been trying to find out as well about my son representing me but I have had no success. As my son is a witness as well if the judge does not allow him to represent, can he at least be with me?

 

Up to you kinger, all I can say is that it will assist anyone looking in on understanding the urgency of any response you need if we know the trial date.

 

I would think if the court has requested a fee it should follow that a notice or response is issued which answers your question of representation. If the trial date is iminent I'd be inclined to telephone it and request an update.

[Kinger122]

Thats very kind of you Mike. It's the 3rd April so I have about a week left. I am going to prepare a list of questions I could ask if I have the opportunity. I will post them here and any feedback would be much appreciated.

[Kinger122]

Im in the court now waiting. The claimant has a solicitor.

[Kinger122]

The judge ordered that the Claimant repair the roof, pay for any building inspection fees and pay for a independent insurance to cover the roof.

 

 

The claimant admitted the pitch was wrong. He admitted the roof was not installed in the timeframe too.

 

 

The judge did not discuss allegations of abuse disruption etc. Neither did he discuss the recording.

 

 

He said because of the first email sent to the Claimant saying the roof was not complete, the judge decided that the defendant was happy with the pitch as the pitch was not initially mentioned.

 

 

He ignored the damage to the roof flashings. He ignored the extremely long time to undertake the work. He ignored the breach of contract. He ignored the fact that I had a freezing house for weeks.

 

 

He dismissed the counterclaim completely and said that the Claimant should be paid the balance originally after the Claimant gets building inspector approval and provides the independent insurance warranty.

 

 

I am really disappointed and upset. Can anyone help me here? Do I have grounds for appeal? How can the judge completely ignore a contract. There was no dispute that the roof should have been to 15 degrees as the Claimant agreed that was what was agreed. The judge said actually we were better off as two windows would have to have been made smaller.

[maddiemay]

There you go again, winner is always whoever brings the claim IMO! So you have to be put through all that stress, and still have the same roofer putting right his wrongdoing on your property, and then pay him!

Disappointed for you, I really am!

[Kinger122]

There you go again, winner is always whoever brings the claim IMO! So you have to be put through all that stress, and still have the same roofer putting right his wrongdoing on your property, and then pay him!

Disappointed for you, I really am!

 

I just can't believe it. I put my heart and soul into thia defence because I know I did nothing wrong. If they had done a perfect job and I did not pay would the judge not order me to pay? yet incorrect pitch, unacceptable delay, unfounded lies and allegations and pathetic workmanship yet the judge orderer them to put it right and still receive full payment. How is this fair?

 

There is no way im letting this man near my property. he is not getting a penny from me. If I get a CCJ then so be it. it really does not bother me

[maddiemay]

Well presumably he has to contact you to make arrangements to start, hopefully he won't, then you can issue proceedings against him. I imagine he's not looking forward to the prospect of you watching over his shoulder as he works.

Hopefully someone will give you advice in appealing soon, probably best to sleep on it, you may feel less upset tomorrow and just want it over with, and of course, you can always come up with the trick some of my husbands customers have been known to do once the work is completed

 

'I have to transfer the money from a savings account and will pay you once it done! It's always a difficult situation because you said you will pay, but we just don't know when!

[Kinger122]

Well presumably he has to contact you to make arrangements to start, hopefully he won't, then you can issue proceedings against him. I imagine he's not looking forward to the prospect of you watching over his shoulder as he works.

Hopefully someone will give you advice in appealing soon, probably best to sleep on it, you may feel less upset tomorrow and just want it over with, and of course, you can always come up with the trick some of my husbands customers have been known to do once the work is completed

 

'I have to transfer the money from a savings account and will pay you once it done! It's always a difficult situation because you said you will pay, but we just don't know when!

 

Thank you for you kind words. He's already contacted me to arrange commencement. I've emailed the building inspector to tell them not to deal with this roofing company. my business is confidential and they work for me. I hope mike or one of the others who had helped me so far can offer some advice. I think I'll take your advice and have an early night

[steampowered]

Sorry to hear about the result after all the work you put in. Unfortunately its very difficult to appeal these things. You can only appeal if you think the judge got the law wrong, not because you think he misunderstood the facts of the case or made the wrong decision.

 

It sounds like the judge has at least made him put the roof right before he can receive payment.

[Kinger122]

Sorry to hear about the result after all the work you put in. Unfortunately its very difficult to appeal these things. You can only appeal if you think the judge got the law wrong, not because you think he misunderstood the facts of the case or made the wrong decision.

 

It sounds like the judge has at least made him put the roof right before he can receive payment.

 

has the judge not got the law wrong by not holding the cclaimant to his beach of contract. He had ignored all the points I have made and made no attempt to compensate me for any wrongdoing by the claimant. I had hoped at the least that the judge would say due to the beach of contact the claimant shouldn't be entitledto seek payment when they breached their side of the contract.

[Mike_hawk]

Kinger

 

Probably best to wait until you have sight of the notice, which repairs did the DJ refer to and to what extent must the other side comply prior to payment?

[Kinger122]

Kinger

 

Probably best to wait until you have sight of the notice, which repairs did the DJ refer to and to what extent must the other side comply prior to payment?

 

Hello Mike. I'm really glad you replied. The DJ said it was not fair to expect the roof to be replaced. He said that the Claimant should repair the roof (what repairs god knows) and do whatever it takes for building control approval. I raised the point about what if the claimant's company goes bankrupt. A guarantee for a unapproved roof is hardly fair. The claimant said they could get an independent insurance backed guarantee for my property for ten years. The judge said that as the guarantee was the same as Velux guarantee that was fair.

 

The Claimant was really licking up to the judge and said he would cover the cost and how he had lost so much money on the job blah blah blah. The judge said that full payment should be made after the building inspector grants approval of the roof. However he did say that if the building inspector would not grant approval then it would need to come before him again. He said a written judgement would be posted to me in 14 days.

 

The judge just would not listen to my points about why do I have to accept a flawed roof at not the agreed pitch. There was clear breach of contract but he said it was not fair to expect the roof to be done again at the correct pitch. Yet it is fair for me to pay full price after all the stress and inconvenience!! And for a roof which was not agreed. The judge also said things had turned out better for me as other windows would have to have been removed to accommodate a 15 degree roof. And the judge also accepted that the initial contract drawing was flawed.

 

I have since read that I can appeal, and if I fail the appeal then I can have an oral hearing. I rang citizens advice and they said they couldnt help me and put me through to a local university law school, yet they are closed. I rang the Which? legal advice team and they said they cannot help as it has not gone to court yet.

 

I cannot justify spending hundreds on a solicitor who may or may not be any use. So what can I do now?

 

Thank you

 

PS: I also said to the judge what happens if a fault develops with the velux windows, and velux are called out and refuse a warranty claim because of the incorrect pitch. He said that was irrelevant and not applicable. Am I imagining this or does it seem like the judge was 100% against me? I will post the judgment as soon as I receive it.

 

Also the Claimant has emailed me regarding repairing the roof and arranging the building inspector. I have called and emailed the building inspector to tell him I am his customer and he deals with me only, not the building contractor. The building contractor can go through me as they are both my customers. It really angered me how he kept going behind my back to the inspector trying to make HIS job easier at my expense. I also told the inspector that I expect all correspondence between us to be strictly confidential. I am not too sure if I have made a mistake here. I have not replied to the Claimant either. What shall I do, especially if I am going to appeal? I am feeling really out of my depth.

[maddiemay]

Probably already on the thread somewhere but is the amount still left to pay to this bloke, enough to pay someone else to finish it to the correct standard? Surely you're under no obligation to have him do it.

Maybe you could work out what the cost was and how much he had been paid up to the point before the pitch started to go wrong, then either pay him what you would have owed up to that point, or sue him if you are out if pocket.

MM

[f16]

Kinger 122.

I'm a Builder with 30 odd years experience.

I have "Watched" this thread for sometime but not commented.

Can you advise : What make of tiles and the type ? I suspect they are a "Pan tile" such as Marley

I will explain why in a bit !

F16

 

PS. I can see the "Pitch" was designed at 15 degree.

What degree pitch have you got ?

[Kinger122]

Probably already on the thread somewhere but is the amount still left to pay to this bloke, enough to pay someone else to finish it to the correct standard? Surely you're under no obligation to have him do it.

Maybe you could work out what the cost was and how much he had been paid up to the point before the pitch started to go wrong, then either pay him what you would have owed up to that point, or sue him if you are out if pocket.

MM

 

I am under the impression I have no choice as the judge has said that he is to repair the roof which is at a 13 degree pitch!!!

 

I have not paid him a penny, hence his court claim against me and my counterclaim against him. He has already lost a lot of money and he is doing this to prove a point and out of spite. I would have been happy with a result where the invoice is cancelled and I pay someone else to sort the problem out, albeit at my expense. However the judge did not even consider this option

[maddiemay]

Kinger

Could you get a couple of quotes, NOT ESTIMATES, from other roofers to remove and replace, at the correct pitch. Deduct this amount, and pay original bloke the balance, making it perfectly clear why you have deducted it. Obviously you don't want him on your property, understandably, and have lost faith in him, again, understandably!

Legally, both parties should be financially in a position they were in, before the dispute occurred.

 

 

f16, in your opinion, do you think this would be a fair way to deal with the problem, or does your question regarding the make and type if tiles have any bearings.

[Kinger122]

Kinger

Could you get a couple of quotes, NOT ESTIMATES, from other roofers to remove and replace, at the correct pitch. Deduct this amount, and pay original bloke the balance, making it perfectly clear why you have deducted it. Obviously you don't want him on your property, understandably, and have lost faith in him, again, understandably!

Legally, both parties should be financially in a position they were in, before the dispute occurred.

 

 

f16, in your opinion, do you think this would be a fair way to deal with the problem, or does your question regarding the make and type if tiles have any bearings.

 

I do already have two quotes and they are almost double the initial bill from the claimant. the claimant massively under quoted me (his workers did) that's why I assume he is so bitter. to have the work done by another company would cost double what he wants. I already have quotes which was submitted to court

 

I think the mistake I made was waiting. if I had already had another builder repair the roof the court would not have been able to allow the claimant to repair the roof as it would have already been fixed.

[maddiemay]

I agree, would have been better, but you weren't to know you'd be so badly let down by the judge.

 

If he really is that cheap, maybe it would be better to let him do it, but only on the condition he does the pitch at 15, that way he gets his money, and you get the roof you originally wanted.

 

I'm not sure if there is any way permission could be sought from the court for this 'new arrangement' I can't see why the original judge would disagree if both parties were happy with it.

If you didn't want to have anything to do with the guy whist the work is being done, you could always employ a project manager to oversee the works.

Obviously no payment is made until building control approval and guarantee provided by roofer ( for what it's worth, for reasons pointed out to judge)

Did the quotes include re using any salvageable material, or from scratch?

[Mike_hawk]

Kinger

 

Not getting much time to post on here lately....... the order is really an interim remedy, both sides should attempt to comply as far as is possible. Is the other sides counsel still instructed? It may simplify matters if all comms are via his solicitor.

 

Not sure you can appeal as it doesn't appear to be a final judgment in the case and is still open to applications from either side.

 

Perhaps ask building control to undertake a site visit prior to any further works so that all parties are aware of which works must be completed for later scrutiny. If that is possible I would be inclined to engage with the other sides sol and explain the course of action you expect from his client.

 

f16 asked about tile type, are you able to confirm?

[maddiemay]

Oh that's interesting, an interim order, didn't read that bit.

 

I'm intrigued as to the importance of the tiles, are you able to elaborate?