Job centre issues......Your thoughts please

[kernowlife]

Ok, lets start with a bit of background. Just over 2 years ago I was on ESA due for stress and anxiety and was referred to "the work program" During that time My marriage broke down and I moved from Cornwall to Lancashire for a fresh start. Out of the 2 years on "the work program" I was actually working for about 18 months of the time. The support when I moved was at best negligable but mostly non existent.

 

About 6 weeks ago I had to give up my self employed freelance HGV driving due to a small bump. It was not so much the bump but the fall out and accusations that came from it led me to having panic attacks when it came to driving Articulated lorries.

 

At this point I had already started the procedure to get my taxi badge (Licence) as the quiet season was coming up for Lorries (Jan - March/apr) Plus its easier to push a car around than a 65' long Lorry.

 

The job centre have had extensive documentation and promised the earth with regards assistance in financing getting my Taxi badge (Medical/CRB/Btec course) Then backed out because I was on "the work program"

 

My "Work program" provider refused to fund me because I actually finished with them Yesterday (27th Nov) and won't be starting work for another couple of weeks at least.

 

Which brings me to today and the appalling way I was treated at the jobcentre in my coming off work program interview. An appointment I was actually looking forward to as they were hinting at being able and willing to assist me in getting back to work.

 

That did not happen, and in my opinion the adviser went out of his way to try and cause my benefits to be sanctioned. At no point was any of the things that was discussed at my final work program meeting discussed.

 

The first thing mentioned was that he did not like my email address. I had already had to set up a new address because universal jobmatch would not let me re register my email and I had lost the log in details. Since I am originally Cornish my new email address was "Pastymuncher74@xxx.com"

 

He suggested that it was a "Joke" email and that I change it. Then said that if I didn't then he would issue a "Jobseeker's direction" which is what he actually did. (Unless I change it by Tuesday next week, my claim will go to a decision maker)

 

At this point, I asked him to show me the legislation and where it stated in law that this had to be done. The reply was, and I quote "I don't have to show you anything"

 

Next he changed my jobseekers agreement insisting I increase my minimum requirements, included activities I am not comfortable with and insisted I register with employment agency's (Which I had already said I would not do......I have had experience with agency's...none of them good) Again reminding him that I have a job lined up and will be starting in 2 or 3 weeks as soon as I have finished jumping through all the hoops I need to to get started.

 

I attempted to bring up the issue of funding for the medical and was told to bring in proof of a guaranteed job. It was pointed out that the proof was provided 3 weeks previously and was told "Oh we wouldn't keep that" in other words it was binned.

 

The "revised" jobseekers agreement was then thrust at me to sign, which I duly did but added "signed under duress" which I informed him I was going to put. At this point he then picked up both copies and said "I'm not having that" and binned them, printed out fresh copies and thrust them at me to sign.

 

I was given the option of signing them or my claim suspended while it went to a decision maker (which I certainly could not afford) then added sarcastically that "its up to you if you want to put that under duress nonsense on again"

 

Which I promptly did.

 

I was also informed that I "had" to allow DWP access to my universal jobmatch and that "hand written logs are no longer acceptable."

 

His whole attitude throughout the interview was like he was on a power trip (I am god and you will do what I say) and very confrontational. I was under the impression that he was deliberately trying to find an excuse to sanction me.

 

I have now been called back to see him on Tuesday (To see if I have changed the email address) which will make 4 visits in 4 working days (2 today, 1 tomorrow and 1 on Tuesday) with the impression that if I don't play ball, more interviews will follow.

 

I feel that he has totally overstepped the mark and is possibly bullying/harassing me.

 

Length of time signing on this claim.......6 weeks

 

Sorry about the "war and peace" length post but its really got my Gander up. I'm intending to make a complaint but need some guides on what grounds/legislation I can. IE where he's overstepped the mark.

 

Stuart

Edited November 28, 2013 by kernowlife

[Bazooka Boo]

You need to lodge a formal complaint about this childish boy to his manager and demand to have a new advisor as this one is so immature!

[jasta11]

Hi Stuart, welcome to the forum!

 

Basically, that advisor needs reporting; for his appalling manner, for making threats of sanction (he can only pass on any infringements to a Decision Maker, not decide himself) and for the rubbish he's telling you. He doesn't like your email address?? Tough! It's not down to him what name you use - and in any event, you don't have to disclose ANY email addresses or personal phone numbers to the Jobcentre, as is clearly stated in the guidance.

 

A JS Agreement is a two-way mutually-negotiated contract; an advisor can't just create one, throw it at you and say 'sign'. You're allowed to discuss the contents and if you feel they aren't suitable, you can ask for the agreement to be referred to a Decision Maker who will look at it. While this is happening, any previous JS Agreement is still valid. Again, this is in the guidance. EVERYTHING your advisor does must be 'reasonable in the client's circumstances' and nothing is set in stone.

 

If you have a recording device - or your phone can record, which most can do these days, start recording every meeting with him; it's your right under section 36 of the Data Protection act.

 

You can complain to the Jobcentre Manager (always assuming he's not just as bad as the advisor), and also to the District Manager (his boss). Also complain to the PCS Union, who will be most interested to know about staff not following guidelines and making up rules. You also have the right to request a different advisor if you're unhappy with your current one for any reason - and it seems you certainly do have good reason.

[Mr.P]

The first thing mentioned was that he did not like my email address. I had already had to set up a new address because universal jobmatch would not let me re register my email and I had lost the log in details. Since I am originally Cornish my new email address was Pastymuncher74@xxx.com

He suggested that it was a "Joke" email and that I change it. Then said that if I didn't then he would issue a "Jobseeker's direction" which is what he actually did. (Unless I change it by Tuesday next week, my claim will go to a decision maker)

I have a number of email addresses, some linked to my own domain, a few throwaway addresses on gmail and others. Depending on who I wish to communicate with, I will use a disposable address. Certainly for the UJM site, I wouldn't use my primary addresses or domain.This "adviser" sounds like he is on a power trip, so i would answer him with "I have one address that you can contact me through. For genuine job applications, I may use another at my discretion.". If he presses the issue, tell him stuart@yopmail.com can be used instead - http://www.yopmail.com provides disposable email addresses that last minutes. Handy for [problem] sites

[kernowlife]

Ok, today was round 2. When I went to sign, I was refused because of the issues I stated I was having and then had to have an interview with the job centre manager. I was there for about an hour, and went through all of my concerns. The main points being the email addy and the hand written job search. Basically they are going down the route of either allow access to UJM or provide print outs of your UJM. Basically she was trying the nicey nicey approach to get me to change it although still avoiding the legality of the Jobseeker direction. I proposed a compromise that was that I would change it, but I wanted a new adviser, the Jobseeker direction cancelled along with Tuesday's appointment. This was refused.

 

During this appointment the one from yesterday also joined in and put his point across because he could see "we were going around in circles" He quoted that "under the guidelines he could invoke the mandate if a jobseeker showed signs of resistance" The manager failed to get the point I was putting across in that it was not the instruction to change the email that I had a problem with, but the fact it was ordered by way of the jobseeker direction with a threat of going to decision makers and sanctions.

 

I then asked the direct question about using the paper log to record jobsearch activity's in. At this point another adviser came in and said "sorry to interrupt, but NO, paper hand written logs are not acceptable." Then I hit them with point 82, section 3 of the universal jobmatch tool kit.

 

"I'm not familiar with that one" said the job centre manager, as she wrote down the details. I will look into it and get back to you, however our preferred option is.....

I pointed out that preferred option is not actually fact, so stating that paper is not acceptable is not actually telling the truth is it.

 

Strangely there was no answer to that one.

 

Round 2 to me I think.

 

I will be recording Tuesday's interview for my own protection.

[Mr.P]

Then I hit them with point 82, section 3 of the universal jobmatch tool kit.

 

I'm not familiar with that one said the job centre manager, as she wrote down the details.

That beggars belief - As a manager, she SHOULD know about key documents and ensure staff below her are aware of the official guidance. Preempt round three with a complaint filed via your MP. If this is handled correctly, it will go to central office and filter down through the chain of command and may even get a few butts kicked in the process.Certainly record all future meetings - It sounds like this office doesn't know what it should be doing and is therefor making it up as they go

[Chester6]

what can the PCS union do? i have had problems with jobcentre staff - particularly the PWP

[Bazooka Boo]

Definitely get the next criminal installment on tape, dictaphone, moby phone, etc

 

They are seriously deluded in what they believe are their "Powers".....can't wait to go up against these clowns.

[jasta11]

what can the PCS union do? i have had problems with jobcentre staff - particularly the PWP

 

The PCS Union fight for the rights of their members.. as long as those members are following the guidelines. If they're not, then the Union comes down equally hard on them for not doing their job and in this respect they're behind us.

 

For example, because of many complaints received the Union issued memos to Jobcentres telling staff that they cannot force claimants to give them access to their UJ account and that they must not tell clients they can or make sanction threats. This was to our benefit (though naturally the Jobcentres still pretend they don't know about this rule and hope we still don't either - we still have to remind them). If I'm ever asked for access I always respond with 'according to the guidelines AND the memo issued to all staff by the PCS Union dated...' They usually drop it immediately after that.

 

Well worth reporting ALL incidents to the PCS Union. I think even the threat of being reported to their union - with the resulting comebacks and possibly even action in extreme cases - will be enough to make advisors think twice before trying it on. The Jobcentre manager will definitely not want any bother with the Union - no manager ever does

 

As for the manager not knowing about the jobsearch evidence guidelines, I'd say that was a perfect reason to report them to PCS. If they don't know the guidance then they're jeopardising the benefits of their customers by their ignorance and the Union will want to know that. Pity you didn't have the manager on record, I'd have emailed that convo straight to the PCS.

[kernowlife]

Round 3 today, The interview to prove I had "complied with the jobseeker directive to change my email address"

 

Got called over. He started saying that he knew I had a few things that I wanted to discuss, but lets get the important stuff done first.

 

I replied fine. I then informed him that I was recording the interview as was my legal right. Quoting section 36 of the Data Protection Act

 

His response was priceless......just 5 words

 

"In that case.....Interview Terminated"

 

In and out in less that 5 minutes.

[jasta11]

Good for you. The advisor is quite within his rights to refuse to be recorded, but now the onus is on them to find another advisor who is willing to be recorded.

 

I always find it deeply suspicious when DWP won't be recorded - to my mind that's like them admitting 'Yes, I'm going to tell you lies and useless information and I don't want any hard evidence of this'.

 

Next time just secretely record them. Just as effective and equally legal. There's no law says you have to tell them you're recording them. If I was an advisor I'd assume everyone was recording me and mind my manners.

[Mr.P]

There's no law says you have to tell them you're recording them. If I was an advisor I'd assume everyone was recording me and mind my manners.

 

Perfectly true - The only law you would possibly be in breach of is one of trespass which is a civil offence. For this "charge" to stick, the DWP would have to inform you that, as a condition of entry, recording was not permitted. Bit of a home goal as I have a note somewhere from the DWP stating that if I wish to record a meeting, they will make every effort to provide a suitable area (i.e. a private room).

[Bazooka Boo]

Well, that last sentence he uttered speaks volumes in my opinion!

 

He is not to be trusted, how you can ever believe another word he utters out of his cake hole is beyond me?

I doubt he will remain your advisor, and as above, if you can record the convo covertly then do so, it would have been good to have pulled out a dictaphone and told him you were going to record the interview, then when he refused, agreed placing it away, only to have another covert device recording anyway.