chezt v's Littlewoods Catalogue **I WON**

[chezt]

Ygm. ;-)

 

cheers muchly! I'm gonna start printing when my lil chufta bum's in bed ... it may be a long night ....

 

If I can't get answers on those few queries I'll just do as I think & hope for the best!

[chezt]

Just wanted to add that I called the court earlier & had a VERY interesting conversation with them re the N266 form. As far as they are concerned they most definately have not issued/served this! The lady I spoke to said they haven't sent me anything since the hearing notification.

She suggests i call LW solicitor & ask what it is & what I'm sposed to do with it but TBH .. I'm not! If the court hasn't issued it then it hasn't been served officially so I'm not returning it - Basically i think it's just some sorta attempt to get me to admit to facts re the non-existence of a contract

Dunno what anyone else thinks to this but that's my take on it?

I told the court to expect my bundle on Friday so she made a note on screen - She did say the defendant hadn't submitted anything yet (Not that I expected them to have) and actually had another 7 days to do so! When I questioned it had 14 days before the hearing (not 7) on the form she said if they do this I can actually inform the judge on the day that i feel i haven't had enough time in which to consider the defence & appropriate action should be taken then - She suggested I stills end mine on time (within the 14 days - which is Friday) so they can't come up with the same response - I'm obviously doing this anyway.

[bill-k]

That N266 deffo looks like a trick to get you to admit stuff, then. Is there anything to show where it was actually sent from ?

 

Why not email their sols about it, sound all naive and innocent, and see what you get back.

[Bookworm]

I fogot to mention another letter received yesterday enclosing an N266, Notice to admit facts which was served on behalf of the defendant. It's a form (on behalf of the court) asking 'for the following facts of part of case in this claim ..

 

1. The claim relates to a credit account provided to the claimant by LW (the account')

2. That the date of final account prior to the claim balance was £xxx all of which was past due

3. That the balance of the account includes each of the charges referred to in paragraph 2 of the POC'

 

It also says 'we invite you to specify by return those documents on which you propse to rely at the hearing of this matter, in order that we may seek to agree these for purposes of a trial bundle

 

Should I be worried about that? In the offer letter it states that If I reject the offer from them that this notice still stands

 

Is anyone familiar with this form - could it be related to the fact they can't find the CA & can use this instead?

 

Sorry, babes, only got round to this now.

 

According to the CPR:

 

Notice to admit facts

 

32.18

 

(1)A party may serve notice on another party requiring him to admit the facts, or the part of the case of the serving party, specified in the notice.

 

(2)A notice to admit facts must be served no later than 21 days before the trial.

 

(3)Where the other party makes any admission in response to the notice, the admission may be used against him only –

 

(a)in the proceedings in which the notice to admit is served; and

(b)by the party who served the notice.

 

(4)The court may allow a party to amend or withdraw any admission made by him on such terms as it thinks just.

 

So no, it doesn't look as if the court had anything to do with it, and what it suspiciously looks like to me is that since they can't locate a signed agreement, they want you to admit that you had in fact an agreement with them and owed them money, serve it on a bed of cress with an apple in your mouth.

 

I suspect that they want you to sign this so that once they have repaid you the charges, they'll have an admission from you that you have a contract and therefore be bound to them again. If it is a condition of repayment of charges that you sign this, I'd tell them to twist their form really tight, and shove it where it will do them most good.

 

Unfortunately, I can't find more info at the moment. The search continues.

[Bookworm]

Sorry, can't be asked looking through your whole thread, when is your court date?

 

Bearing in mind that the CPR says N266 should be sent no later than 21 days before hearing, odds are that even if you were to send it back, they'd be in breach of the CPR by the time they produce it, and you could ask court to have it stricken off anyway. Just thought I'd mention it.

[chezt]

Hi Peeps ... just popped in myself *mid bundle & dealing with screaming overtired monster! - Typical she normally goes straight to sleep so trust her to pick tonight to be a chuff!*

 

Bill I thought of that but I'm really tempted to just leave it IYKWIM? No there is nothing saying where it came from - the bit at the bottom which usually has the court info on isn't filled in - It's not a photocopy either (well the form prob is) but you can see that it's probably been fed through a printer and the court location/details etc printed on it - also the signature of the solicitor is an original - you can see the biro. The courts said that really it should have a court seal stamped on it too (although she did say that it doesn;t allways happen!)

 

Bookie firstly the 21 days thing - Looks like they're being real crafty so n so's then! The letter they've enclosed it with is dated 23rd Feb & I received it the 28th .. the court case is 23rd march so they're just in aren't they?

 

Interestingly tho they haven't included signing this as a condition of the offer - This is as an alternative to it so looks like they want to use it in court.

[bill-k]

Hi Peeps ... just popped in myself *mid bundle & dealing with screaming overtired monster! - Typical she normally goes straight to sleep so trust her to pick tonight to be a chuff!*

Don't you have a Mothercare mallet ? Wouldn't be without ours !!

Bill I thought of that but I'm really tempted to just leave it IYKWIM?

Your choice, matey, but for the sake of a 5 min freebie email, I reckon it's worth seeing if you can get them to say something that might be taken down and used in evidence later.

 

...Large bloomers spring to mind of course.

[chezt]

Your choice, matey, but for the sake of a 5 min freebie email, I reckon it's worth seeing if you can get them to say something that might be taken down and used in evidence later.

 

...Large bloomers spring to mind of course.

 

I won't be able to use it in court bundle anyway (or will I?) as I've gotta post it 2moro - I'm working in the morning & was gonna post on my way home so i don't have to drag chufta to the PO - Would normally but car needs exhaust looking at ready for MOT !

 

PMSL @ mothercare mallet - she's eventually given in - a teaspoon of medised n a(nother) cuddle FINALLY did the trick! It's cos she's only had 40min nap today - she thinks she can go forever like a duracel bunny!

[bill-k]

Iswym !!!

[chezt]

Iswym !!!

 

No guarantees they would even bother to reply to the blimmin e-mail either is there ...

 

I'm just numbering up my printed pages I'll just need to take statements & correspondence to work to photocopy 2moro now! OMG this is a proper nightmare!

[chezt]

ALL DONE - 69 Pages per bundle!!!

 

Just the photocopying n posting to do now ... phew!

 

Wot's the bets that I WON'T be getting a bundle fro LW Solicitor in the next few days to comply with the deadline?

 

Off to bed to rest me weary eyes

 

EDIT: I've done this letter to send to LW with their copy ..

 

Dear xxxxxx

 

Please find enclosed a copy of all documents on which I intend to rely on in court for the forthcoming hearing on Friday 23rd March at xxx in relation to my claim ref xxxxxxx. I trust I can look forward to receiving the same to fulfill your obligation on behalf of your client, as ordered by the court, by Friday 9th March 2007 latest.

However, I should also take this opportunity to remind you of my willingness to settle this matter as detailed in my letter of 28th February 2007 and I await your reply.

Trusting this is satisfactory.

 

Yours faithfully

chezt

[bill-k]

ALL DONE - 69 Pages per bundle!!!

Off to bed to rest me weary eyes

Well done, Chez !! You'll sleep well tonight, 'appen !! - Night - night.

[Guest willowb]

Well done hunny:) fingers, toes and everything crossed for you girl;)

 

Wxxx

[GaryH]

Sorry bout the delay Chezt - haven't been on for a day or two. Looks like you've been well looked after now anyway. All sorted then?

 

If (or 'when', probably) they don't submit their documents by the given date see these letters - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/58011-sc-m-court-bundle.html

The first ones optional - if there isn't long to go before the hearing you may just want to send the second one straight to the court as soon as they're in breach.

[chezt]

Thanks guys! Gary - Thanks for popping by again too - I appreciate it loads!

 

UPDATE TIME! Got back from post office on way home from work today to 2 letters from LW (they don't like to send just one!) Which are basically responding to my last letter requesting a cq refund for my court fee & removal default. So the 1st one in summary ..

 

It states that for the reasons set out in their letter the default notice associated with the account will not be removed. They are somewhat concerned at my attempts to link my settlement agreement of the claim with a removal of the notice.

They see no basis on which I could obtain a better result than the offer already made & note for example, that there is no basis for me to be paid the principal sum claimed (£charges only) rather than this sum be deducted from the balance when it is clear that the admin charges which form the basis of my claim remain as part of a larger balance on my acc. (I've already accepted for them to be credited to the acc!) For the same reason there is no basis for me to recover the sum of £xx in respect of interest as you have yet to pay the principal sum (yeah I know but that's the 8% stat!) Given this they have reduced my balance by £charges+interest & have sent a cq for £50 under seperate cover.

 

(The settlement is a little behind & without working it out I think it probably dates back to the claim date .. it only makes about £8 difference tho)

 

2nd letter ...

 

Refers again the their last letter & notes that they have yet to receive any response in respect of the Notice to admit facts which was enclose ( Mmmmmm!)

Having reviewed the circumstances (principally the costs of beind represented) the defendant is prepared without admission & purely on a commercial basis to settle the claim.

In F&F they have procured a reduction in the balance & enclose a cq for £50. These actions have been taken by tge defendant on it's behalf & on the behalf of LWFC & are expressly in F&F of the claim.

They enclose a settlement order setting out the offer & are asking for it to be signed & returned as acceptance.

If I don not accept the offer (although they've actioned it already!) LW will be represented at the hearind & in that circumstance would seek to defend the entire claim.

 

LW will not be removing the default supplied to CA's. Even if it was accepted that the value of the default is incorrect because it reflects admin charges which should not have been applied to your acc, this would not alter the fact that the acc is in default even if the admin costs had not been applied.

Your acc with LW is considerably in arrears (the entire balance is overdue) and has been continuously in arrears for almost 3yrs (I don't think it has!)

There is no factual basis on which it could be argued that the arreas on the acc (& the corresponding default notice) relate soley to admin charges applied to it.

The default notice will of course be amended to reflect the balance now the reduction has been applied.

They look forward to receiving the signed settlement order.

 

OK then ... What do I do with the settlement order (2 pages) which reads ...

 

CONSENT ORDER

 

1. That all proceedings be stayed upon the terms set forth in the schedule to which the parties have agreed exept for the purpose the parties hereto will be at liberty to apply

2. There be no further order as to costs

 

We consent to an order in the above terms

(There is space for myself & the sol to sign & date)

 

THE SCHEDULE

 

1. The defendant has paid the claimant £50

2. LWFC on it's own behalf & on behalf of the defendant has reduced the balance of the credit account opened by the claimant by £XXX

 

We consent to an order in the above terms

(There is space for myself & the sol to sign & date)

 

Advice anyone? I feel I ought to respond with reference to the 'suspected dummy' N266 form ?? Maybe also to point out the short payment (but I'm not really fussed about that if I'm honest)

 

As far as the default is concerned - as much as removal would be nice I would expect/accept it really as I've got this included in a DMP with CCCS.

 

I know there's the issue of them defaulting the CCA Request & that if I can get the rest of the debt cleared then the default should perhaps be removed anyway ... this is where I start to get all puzzled again.

 

Do I accept this offer now to 'put it to bed' so to speak & continue with the non compliance bit? Help lead me in the right direction now someone! (please!)

 

ps - does this mean I win again?!

[Bookworm]

I know I'm probably going to get in some flak from some people, but my opinion, for what it's worth, is this:

 

You do owe the balance. CCA or no CCA, you still got goods from LW and IMO, that means that regardless of their failure to supply the agreement, you still have a debt.

 

Yes, failure to provide the credit agreement is a valid defence in itself, but in the end, it's about doing the right thing, not about debt-dodging.

 

Also, if your default doesn't consist solely of penalties, I would think you have no chance in hell to get it removed. There is no way that a judge will agree to a removal when you still have amounts outstanding.

 

I think you have donw very well, they have refunded you your charges to your account, reducing your debt, and paid you back your court fee direct, as is correct.

 

They actually have a very valid point about the 8% Stat interest. Follow this carefully: The 8% Stat Interest is meant to compensate you for the interest you may have lost if you had been able to invest the monies taken from you in a savings account. In your case, since you still have an outstanding balance, you haven't lost that interest, since you haven't disbursed the monies. Do you follow?

 

In conclusion, from my point of view, well done. You've won, and have taken this as far as you safely can. IMO. ;-)

[chezt]

Bookie - no flak from me! I totally understand all your post & I agree that I feel that I've done Bl**dy well with this settlement (considering this default removal/CCA Request/Other financial organisation stuff really hurts my head!)

 

I'm also impressed they have chosen to pay the stat interest too which I personally think jut proves that they don't think they could win this one in court - but then we all sorta knew that anyway didn't we.

 

I dunno what (if anything) they will do now in reply to my court bundle which they should receive 2moro (gggrrrrr at them not replying yesterday & saving me paper, ink n losing sleep! )

 

My instinct now tells me to accept the offer & close this part of the saga down although I think I'd still like to see what happens regarding the non-compliance to the CCA Request stuff - although I can deal with that as a seperate issue I think.

 

What do you think I should do with the 2 acceptance of offer forms they have sent - is there anything 'hidden' that I should read between the lines there or would a letter of acceptance signed from me stating that I will contact the courts suffice instead of signing their forms?

 

Also, I really don't wanna sign the N266 form - especially as it wasn't served by the courts.

 

i know this is a strange one for anyone to comment on but I would appreciate the thoughts all the same!

 

Thanks again Bookie - uv been a big help!

[Bookworm]

Is any of the acceptance forms headed "Tomlin Order" by any chance?

[chezt]

Is any of the acceptance forms headed "Tomlin Order" by any chance?

No - It's just like this ...

 

IN THE XXX COUNTY COURT Claim No xxxxx

 

BETWEEN

 

chezt Claimant

and

LW Defendant

 

 

CONSENT ORDER

 

Before district judge (this has been left blank!),upon the parties having agreed the terms, it is hereby ordered by consent:-

 

Then it goes on as I typed above - It looks like they were perhaps going to take this to court do you think? Sorta as if they were gonna get the judge to order it??? :?

 

no mention of Tomlin order anywhere ....

[chezt]

bump - Any more comments for me peeps?

[GaryH]

Regards to the N266 - tell them to sod off (politely, of course!).

 

CPR part 32 - which includes provisions for a party to serve the other with a notice to admit facts - does'nt apply to the small claims track. See rule 27.2(1)©

[chezt]

Regards to the N266 - tell them to sod off (politely, of course!).

 

CPR part 32 - which includes provisions for a party to serve the other with a notice to admit facts - does'nt apply to the small claims track. See rule 27.2(1)©

 

REALLY!! That's interesting Gary thanks! That probably explains why they didn't actually get it served by the courts then & just printed it & typed it themselves ... crafty so n so's!!!

 

I think I'm gonna type my own acceptance letter advising them I won't be returning the 'dummy' N266 in that case then - don't see why I should sign any of their mad up forms ... I can't believe how crafty n underhanded they've been! I wonder what the judge would have to say about all this ....

[Bookworm]

Oooh, well done, Gary, I was so busy looking up the N266, I completely missed that! See, Chezt, I told you not to rely on me!

[chezt]

 

I'm just devising my acceptance letter to LW - Does anyone happen to know how long it should take for an amendment of my credit file to show on my file? I'm gonna say I accept the amendment of the default amount rather than removal at this time but I could do with knowing how long this takes so I can word my letter accordingly - basically I want to make sure they adhere to this request IYKWIM?

[chezt]

Regards to the N266 - tell them to sod off (politely, of course!).

 

CPR part 32 - which includes provisions for a party to serve the other with a notice to admit facts - does'nt apply to the small claims track. See rule 27.2(1)©

 

Gary - where did you get this info .... could do with an actual quote to use in my letter! ( A link would be MUCHO appreciated)