Advice regarding rejecting a car under SOGA

[Steve Mac]

Hello CAGgers,

 

On 23rd of June I purchased a 2001 VW Beetle for my wife from an independent dealer in Cornwall (I live in Essex, so it was some way to go!). The car was paid for using a credit card. Last week I noticed some rust patches had appeared at the corners of the roof. I took the car to a body repair specialist and now have a bill for £463.60 in front of me.

 

 

Now, obviously I'm not happy with that, but what concerns me more is the advisory notice that the body shop have put on the invoice:

 

"Due to the location and depth of the rust, the repair we have carried out is only superficial and will return most definitely within time.

The location and nature of the rust under and within joining panel seals means that areas inaccessible to us will still be corroding underneath. Even a full roof skin removal and replacement will leave corroding pillars which cannot be replaced as these make up the structural integrity of the vehicle. In our opinion given the value, this vehicle and the repairs needed would result in a write off situation.

This particular fault is due to the manufacturers design of the roof skin / roof pillar seam. The foam and rubber seals lock the water in the recess rather than expelling it. We would not expect to see this level of corrosion on a vehicle of this age and would therefore not consider it to be general wear and tear."

 

 

Understandably my wife was very upset on hearing this news - she absolutely adored this car

The body shop said that this corrosion had been happening for some time, and that the roof had already been repainted at least twice before.

 

 

With this information, I rang Citizens Advice to see if they could help me, and they believe I have a case under the SOGA, as the vehicle is not of satisfactory quality and has not lasted a reasonable length of time. They suggested that as the corrosion cannot be attributed to fair wear and tear, then it would be classed as a manufacturing fault, and I could reject the car rather than accepting a repair (as a repair will not remedy the underlying problem).

 

They also said I should give the dealer a call to see what his response would be. I did that this afternoon and he basically said it's not his problem and 'rust happens'.

 

 

I am about to write a formal letter to the dealer, and was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction with what to put to make it more, well, official sounding. I know I have to keep it short and sweet, but is there anything specific I should include?

 

 

Any other help or advice would be very much appreciated.

 

 

Steve

[oddjobbob]

I don't think you've got any recourse to be quite honest.

 

 

The car is 12 years old, and can reasonably be considered as very near the end of its life.

 

 

note that even the body shop said

 

 

'' This particular fault is due to the manufacturers design of the roof skin / roof pillar seam''

 

To get anywhere you would have to show that the dealer bodged any previous repair - he can simply deny having done so.

 

 

You don't say what you paid for the car, but i'd guess about £1250? You're really really close to banger money there I'm sorry to say.

 

 

You MIGHT get somewhere with a credit charge chargeback, however, at 12 years old, the basic question will be...

 

 

Is it roadworthy

Is it safe

does it start every morning

would it pass an mot

 

 

at 12 years old I doubt a cosmetic problem would be addressed.

 

 

Sorry

[heliosuk]

Pretty general statement and kop out from the body shop though i.e. our repairs are no good and we don't know what we are doing therefore what we do will affect the structural integrity of the vehicle. .......Give it a rest....if they do the job properly then it wouldn't would it? Sounds like they don't want the work to me and I don't blame them. To do it properly requires rather large jigs which are available but cost a fortune to rent and thus renders a 12 year old car uneconomical to repair.

 

As bob says you're going to have a hard job proving this one under SOGA.

 

It's worth a pop at VW though under the 12 year body guarantee but this is notoriously hard to fight unless a known major issue.

[Steve Mac]

Thanks for the replies. Let me answer some of your queries.

 

Bob, the car cost nearly £3000, so hardly 'banger money'. It is a particularly rare colour, which holds onto its value, hence the price. Citizens Advice did not say that the cost of the vehicle would be a factor under SOGA. Using your arguement, what would you say the price point would be where the dealer's obligations under SOGA no longer apply?

 

Citizens Advice were of the opinion that as the corrosion was a factor relating to the design of the car, and not 'fair wear and tear' then my case was stronger. I can't see how the fact of whether or not the dealer knew about the corrosion or the previous repairs is relevant. If a high street shop sells you a broken product, they cannot simply say 'Sorry, we didn't know anything about it - you're on your own'. How is this different for a car dealer?

 

Regarding the body shop and their statement. It is a well regarded business with a good reputation for quality work (which is why I used them). I have friends and family members who have used them before and I know their work is good. They often have high value vehicles in for repair, so are not some backstreet outfit who don't know what they are doing, trying to get out of doing a proper job.

[Steve Mac]

Thanks for the replies. Let me answer some of your queries.

 

Bob, the car cost nearly £3000, so hardly 'banger money'. It is a particularly rare colour, which holds onto its value, hence the price. Citizens Advice did not say that the cost of the vehicle would be a factor under SOGA. Using your arguement, what would you say the price point would be where the dealer's obligations under SOGA no longer apply?

 

Citizens Advice were of the opinion that as the corrosion was a factor relating to the design of the car, and not 'fair wear and tear' then my case was stronger. I can't see how the fact of whether or not the dealer knew about the corrosion or the previous repairs is relevant. If a high street shop sells you a broken product, they cannot simply say 'Sorry, we didn't know anything about it - you're on your own'. How is this different for a car dealer?

 

Regarding the body shop and their statement. It is a well regarded business with a good reputation for quality work (which is why I used them). I have friends and family members who have used them before and I know their work is good. They often have high value vehicles in for repair, so are not some backstreet outfit who don't know what they are doing, trying to get out of doing a proper job.

[oddjobbob]

If you paid nearly £3000 for a 12 year old beetle then unless it is made of gold you paid too much.

 

 

However, the fact remains that the dealer can't really be held responsible, as long as the car is roadworthy. At 12 years old, that's really all that matters: at 2 years old it's a different ball game.

 

 

As your bodyshop have already stated, it's VW's fault for desiginnig the car wrongly...so how can the dealer be at fault (even if he actually HAS previously bodged the repair, you can't prove he did this)

 

 

He can't be expected to have x ray vision, especially on a 12 year old car. He's actually right.. rust does happen.

 

 

For your sake I hope CAB are right and I'm wrong, but I really doubt you'll get anywhere apart from a CC chargeback or VW goodwill.

 

 

I hope you do though.

[Surfer01]

Our Corolla is 17 years old with 98,000 miles on the clock and it is nowhere near the end of its life! Our Toyota Surf was 15 years old when we sold it and it had plenty of life in it. My friend in Africa has a similar Toyota Surf vehicle except it is about 8 years older and has over 250,000 miles on the clock and is nowhere near the end of its life. How does any one determine the life span of a vehicle.

[blackknight]

The body shop here are covering their backs for when the rust reappears after a year or so, the only way to get rid of the rust would be to cut out the panel and fit new panels which is beyond economic to do.

 

It is quite reasonable for a 12 year old car to have had paintwork in the past and for rust to appear but cant see how its the dealers fault and if it goes to court a judge would have to consider what is reasonable for a 12 year old car which I don't think would go in your favour as for rejecting a car.

 

I see citzens advice talk about a reasonable amount of time but does that start from when the car is built or 5 years old/10 years old/or 30 years old!!

[heliosuk]

Our Corolla is 17 years old with 98,000 miles on the clock and it is nowhere near the end of its life! Our Toyota Surf was 15 years old when we sold it and it had plenty of life in it. My friend in Africa has a similar Toyota Surf vehicle except it is about 8 years older and has over 250,000 miles on the clock and is nowhere near the end of its life. How does any one determine the life span of a vehicle.

 

The actual design life of the vehicle is 10 years or 150,000 miles whichever occurs first. The vehicle is tested to last this long without any major structural/mechanical failures in this time based on known average usage in particular markets. So some last longer if they are pampered and looked after, others can be fit for scrap if abused after 5 years, hence average.

 

In terms of corrosion testing, again the car is tested to 10 years based on extreme operating conditions such as seen in Europe.

 

The 10 years is based from the time the vehicle was built.

[oddjobbob]

+ 1 to that took the words out of my mouth...

 

 

The actual design life of the vehicle is 10 years or 150,000 miles whichever occurs first. The vehicle is tested to last this long without any major structural/mechanical failures in this time based on known average usage in particular markets. So some last longer if they are pampered and looked after, others can be fit for scrap if abused after 5 years, hence average.

 

In terms of corrosion testing, again the car is tested to 10 years based on extreme operating conditions such as seen in Europe.

 

The 10 years is based from the time the vehicle was built.

[heliosuk]

Regarding the body shop and their statement. It is a well regarded business with a good reputation for quality work (which is why I used them). I have friends and family members who have used them before and I know their work is good. They often have high value vehicles in for repair, so are not some backstreet outfit who don't know what they are doing, trying to get out of doing a proper job.

 

You're missing the point. What they are telling you is that in order to do the repair to the required standard is not economical. My point is that if the repairs are carried correctly then it should not effect the structural integrity of the car. Anything can be repaired and maintain the structural integrity of the car at a cost. In this case reading between the lines is that they are not prepared to do it, not that it is not possible.

They are not also in a position to say it is a design flaw as they won't have access to data that suggests it is or even proves it is. VW might have produced a million of these cars and yours is the only one that exhibits this type of fault. CAB and TS are hardly in a position to determine this and are wrong to suggest you have a case. If indeed it is a design flaw then you have bought the car and your claim should be against VW not the dealer. The dealer can hardly be held responsible for design flaws which seem to be the line you are being advised to pursuit.