Collectica Bailiffs - Advice on process to take to court.

[Bailiffbreaker]

Hi,

 

I will not be giving out any personal information to avoid any further information being given to the bailiff's company. Some figures have been changed, so please do not be alarmed that it doesn’t add up.

 

I received a PCN for parking without a valid ticket by MB Council in late 2012. I was not at home to receive the NTO and CC. Council took it to TEC sometime in May 2013. I replied to court summons which was successful. Received no further paperwork for a month or so, was away from home for a few months on business. I did not receive any further documentation until I got a visit from two bailiffs working for Collectica Limited on October 15 verbally demanding I pay £205, if I did not, they would call a tow truck and have my vehicle removed, resulting in further costs. They used a panel van to block the driveway where my vehicle was.

 

The overall tone was threatening but I am not someone who bows easily to threats, my pride & ego doesn’t allow me to.

I called the local councilor, who just advised me to take legal counsel.

The bailiffs then threw (literally) a piece of paper at me and left. I did not sign anything; I did not accept any paperwork. I did not pay the bailiffs at this stage.

 

I informed the bailiffs that I am self-employed (actually am) and my vehicle is necessary in the course of my business. I am the sole user of the vehicle. Furthermore, my vehicle has been fitted with custom electronics which I produce and sell; therefore it contains “Tools of the trade”. Bailiffs didn’t care.

 

The piece of paper I received from the bailiffs, is a standard Collectica form, which contains hand written information such as, My name, First line of my address, Date, Time, Their reference, Bailiff in charge names, bailiffs mobile number and the balance outstanding and council name which initiated this action.

 

On that form it has a printed paragraph which states:

 

“I AM AUTHORISED BY THE COURT UNDER THE ENFORCEMENT OF ROAD TRAFFIC DEBTS (CERTIFIED BAILLIFS) REGULATIONS 1993 (AMENDMENTS 2003), TO REMOVE YOUR VEHICLE/HOUSEHOLD EFFECTS TO SATISFY YOUR UNPAID PENALTY CHARGE

 

IF YOU FAIL TO CONTACT ME WITHIN THE NEXT 24 HOURS I WILL HAVE NO ALTERNATIVE BUT TO REATTEND YOUR PROPERTY EARLY MORNING OR EVENING TO IMPOUND YOUR VEHCILE/REMOVE GOOD”

 

Where there is an option, neither was crossed out.

 

I filed an Out of Time application on that day, which was refused (submission made to the courts by the council: apparently I refused the recorded delivery mail – checked with RM and on their records, it just shows as being returned) on the 9th of November or thereabouts.

 

I contacted the local councilor again who passed me through to the person he believed to be responsible at the council for this matter. I asked for a breakdown of costs, which was:

 

Original debt (Below £100 – around £80)

Letter sent: £13.44 incl VAT (Legal)

First visit: £105 incl VAT (Errm yeah? )

 

So I replied to the council that the charges are excessive and therefore illegal as set out under the Road Traffic Debts. The council denied it’s their responsibility. (Case law would suggest it is the council’s responsibility)

 

All throughout this, I was paranoid my vehicle might just “disappear” off the driveway. I would always leave it in gear, made and installed my own security alarm system. I had many sleepless nights and would wake up, get out of bed at the slightest noise to check on the car, even if it was 3am in the morning. I’ve had my car for 6 years and it’s my first car… it might not be worth a lot but it’s sentimental value is through the roof.

 

So reluctantly, I paid the charge online on or around the 13th of November 2013. Under duress but there was no option anywhere on the website to attach notes.

 

I was charged 5% for credit card payments and then VAT on top, which resulted in an additional charge of ~£12 being added on…even though I used my debit card!!

 

Anyway, I have read up so many laws, stories etc.

 

So far, what I am able to gather, I have been overcharged by the first visit by nearly 3x.

 

I have also been overcharged for debit card payments by 4x the required amount (£3 according to their website, which takes information from HMTCS)

 

I have checked the two bailiff’s names against the register, neither of them appear on the register.

 

 

My pride and ego have been severely dented; I want to go thermonuclear on the bailiffs, the bailiff’s company and the council. Looking on the web, I am not the only one these cockroaches have overcharged/threatened etc.

 

What should I do to get the maximum punishment for the cockroaches?

 

I am guessing it’s sending a complaint to the OFT, LGO, Issuing proceedings in small claims court and possibly getting in contact with the police over fraud?

 

What would be my next steps and in which order? I don’t care if this process takes a few months, it’s principal I receive my dues.

 

Can I get a refund of the entire amount I paid or only the bits which was overcharged?

 

Thank you for taking your time to read this lengthy post, I wanted to include as much information as possible.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Bailiffbreaker

[sgtbush]

you dont obviously know how the debt is made up, the pcn would of been around 120-130 by the time its sent to TEC, then warrant costs ad admin fees, you will have recieved lots of warnings before 2 bailiffs turn up, if you have refused a recorded letter then whos fault is that. usually the costs by the time bailiffs are involved are around 380 quid .

regarding the cc charge, that is a MOJ standard cc charge

[dementedfeline]

Bailiffbreaker, helping a friend in a similar situation.

 

Regarding the pcn - by the time it gets to bailiffs it's original FULL charge plus 50% plus either £5 or £7 court fee for the warrant (not sure when it went up to 7). So that's your starting point.

 

Regarding the bailiff register - if you checked the central register, it is woefully out of date - I ended up phoning round five different courts only to find out that the "person" was registered, so you may well have a bit of legwork to do - try starting with your "home" court.

 

You need to be more forthcoming on this registered letter - from whom?

 

You can file a N244 to apply for a review of the refusal of the OOT refusal (I was told by my council that they object to OOT as a matter of course) - but this will cost you either £45/80 (I think) for either a postal review or a review in front of a district judge. If you go down this route, make sure that on the application you ask to have the filing fee refunded if you win. If you're on a limited income you might not have to pay - see Form EX160A.

 

The LGO won't have anything to do with you until you have exhausted the Council's stated complaint procedure.

 

demented

[Bailiffbreaker]

Bailiffbreaker, helping a friend in a similar situation.

 

Regarding the pcn - by the time it gets to bailiffs it's original FULL charge plus 50% plus either £5 or £7 court fee for the warrant (not sure when it went up to 7). So that's your starting point.

 

Regarding the bailiff register - if you checked the central register, it is woefully out of date - I ended up phoning round five different courts only to find out that the "person" was registered, so you may well have a bit of legwork to do - try starting with your "home" court.

 

You need to be more forthcoming on this registered letter - from whom?

 

You can file a N244 to apply for a review of the refusal of the OOT refusal (I was told by my council that they object to OOT as a matter of course) - but this will cost you either £45/80 (I think) for either a postal review or a review in front of a district judge. If you go down this route, make sure that on the application you ask to have the filing fee refunded if you win. If you're on a limited income you might not have to pay - see Form EX160A.

 

The LGO won't have anything to do with you until you have exhausted the Council's stated complaint procedure.

 

demented

 

Original PCN (after Charge Certificate) is £60. I can see where you are getting at though but if I paid when I supposedly received the letter, I would have paid £80+ £13.40 for the letter. The first visit cost £110 as it states in the breakdown of costs!

 

Ah ok, seems a bit pointless if it is out of date, I can always ask the bailiff company for their bailiff's certificates?

 

The registered letter was from the council and either contained a NTO or CC.

 

I am not on a limited income. While I don't have lots of money, quite struggle as I am self employed, I am one of those people who would rather see £400 burn than give £200 to the bailiffs. Hence why I would rather take the bailiffs to court and hopefully get CCJ registered against them if it is possible. Reading various laws etc, it does seem like it's possible.

[dementedfeline]

ok, it would help it you could put dates to the actions outlined in your first post.

 

Also email/then post bailiffs with the following (I'm not claiming credit for it), although I would ask for a calculated breakdown, rather than just a breakdown because then it forces them to show how they arrive at the figures.

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

.

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

.

Ref: Account No: 123456

.

Dear Sir

.

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

.

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

.

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

.

I require this information within 14 days.

.

Yours faithfully

.

Ripped off customer"

.

I have to say though, ignoring whatever was in that letter was probably not the best thing to do.

[Bailiffbreaker]

Hi,

 

As requested, dates have been entered into my original post!

 

I didn't really ignore it, I just wasn't at home. I have a stress related health condition and have to 'get away' for a while sometimes when my health conditions deteriorate just to get better, I can understand it sounds a bit strange but it's something I have to live with, there is no cure, it's just a part of my life.

When I feel better, I work and sometimes contracted out to other parts of the country. I am a private individual and love my privacy. I guess you could say I am a bit of a social outcast on that front, there's very little I could prove to a court so I don't see an N244 being the route to go with.

I am not even certain the PCN is actually mine, my numberplates were stolen and I have received numerous parking tickets and even speeding tickets. (Most were quashed).

 

I have asked the head of parking services for any and all the evidence and I just keep getting the cold shoulder, saying it is too late to contest it etc. I had to file a FOI just to get the evidence... which I am still waiting for. I also filed a FOI wanting the SLA for the baillifs and I can bet that will be unanswered as well, even though the council acknowledged the FOI.

 

I will submit that request tomorrow as it seems sensible to have up to date and correct information to proceed with.

[dementedfeline]

You said "I replied to court summons which was successful." - can you elaborate?

[Bailiffbreaker]

Sorry, the entire process was taken back to the Notice To Owner stage by completing a TE7 form?

Edited November 15, 2013 by Bailiffbreaker

[dementedfeline]

I'm getting confused now. Can you do a simple date/action list like below from the very beginning up to now:

 

12 Oct 2012 - PCN received for reason reason

15 Oct 2012 - informal challenge made for reason reason

 

You refer to your number plates being stolen and other tickets/fines. Police report? Crime number? Date this happened? You say most of these tickets/fines were quashed - around the same time. Do the details on THIS pcn match up with make/model of your car etc? Photos to go with this PCN - any evidence there that it wasn't your car?

 

Meanwhile phone TEC on 01604 619450 and ask them for dates and actions - a full list, including if the warrant was reissued.

 

Also phone council and use (I think it's dx100's list) to ask:

 

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

 

 

 

from TEC:

What happens when I file a valid Statutory Declaration/Witness Statement?

 

TEC will revoke the Order for Recovery. This does not mean that the penalty charge has been cancelled. The Local Authority may continue to pursue the charge and will contact you if it intends to take further action.

Finally, do you have any proof of the dates when you were away, when this letter came? So that you can put forward a convincing argument that you didn't refuse it, you were unaware of it. Do you now have a copy of it? Can you get a copy if not? Do you know what it said?

 

 

df

[ploddertom]

 

Also phone council and use (I think it's dx100's list) to ask:

 

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

 

 

Not criticising but the above is purely for obtaining info from the Council for Council Tax/NNDR. PCN's are governed by different legislation.

[dementedfeline]

Plodder, - oops, sorry - my bad. I totally didn't clock the words "liability order" instead of warrant. Apologies.

[ploddertom]

No need to apologise - we all had to learn & it is more encouraging to see you having a go.

[Bailiffbreaker]

Sorry for not replying, been rather busy trying to gather some evidence.

 

Bailiff imposed charges that are not in accordance with the law, maximum charge for a first visit, that is guaranteed, as the total debt I owed was £82. I asked for a full breakdown of charges, a complaint was raised at the council and Bailiffs, both which denied responsibility. Infact, the bailiff's company went as far as explaining how each section was charged and the law it was charged under. The first visit charges was simply glossed over saying that it was charged under contract with the council. I was charged £90+VAT for the first visit. The law states the maximum is £28+VAT.

 

FOI revealed that an SLA with the bailiffs company was drafted in March 2013 BUT only signed on October 2013, 2 days after I kicked up a fuss about it....very strange. I asked for a copy of the previous SLA, which I was told, "You don't need a copy of that, it will be the same except the dates will change". I asked, "How is this possible for you to know if you cannot compare. Send the old document". They said they don't have the document as it's not the councils responsibility to keep it. I asked how long do they keep SLA's for when outdated, to which they replied 6 years. So HIGHLY suspicious!

 

My question now is, Do I submit a claim for the entire amount back? Just the illegal charges? Do I claim for my time? Can I claim compensation?