Debt showing twice on my cra file, nationwide + Lowells SAME DEBT - help - need it gone!!

[bandito22]

Hi Guys,

 

I have had a good read of the information provided by this excellent website

but I am still left unsure of my position regarding a default on my Experian credit file and would appreciate some advice.

 

 

The situation is that I had an account with Nationwide a few years ago, that I was no longer going to use,

so I withdrew any remaining funds and cancelled any direct debits.

 

However, there was a direct debit request made on the account that presumably I had not cancelled in time

and this was rejected and a bank charge was made on the account. This then created an unauthorised overdraft as I had no overdraft facility on that account.

 

The bank sent letters to inform me of this but in my stupidity I didn't even open them as I was assuming they were just statements showing my zero balance. So, additional charges were placed on the account accumulating to £325 in total before I actually opened one of the letters and realised what had been happening.

 

I spoke to the bank and told them that I felt this situation was totally unfair (it was at the time people were disputing bank charges) and that I was going to dispute the amount they were trying to charge me. At some point during this they placed the default on my account (Sept 2009) and passed the debt to Lowell for collection. To simply get the matter concluded I paid Lowell's the full amount.

 

Now I need to apply for a mortgage and have been told that there is no possibility of getting one whilst the default remains on my file.I took a look at my file and noticed there were 2 defaults, one from Nationwide and one from Lowell, both defaulting on the same date in 2009. As I felt the charges were unfair and possibly unlawful I spoke to Nationwide a few weeks ago, fully expecting to argue this point with them however, after very little discussion they agreed to remove the default and wrote to confirm that. Which to my surprise they have actually done.

 

However, the default from Lowell still remains. I spoke to Lowell at the same time that I spoke to Nationwide and they told me if Nationwide removed it, they would be obliged to do the same. However, now that Nationwide have removed it, Lowell tell me they will not remove it unless they specifically get a request from Nationwide to do so. Nationwide are now saying they will not do that.

 

Lowell claim the only reason Nationwide removed it was because they no longer own the debt and it's Lowell that need to mark the default now as it was passed to them (it is marked as 'satisfied' but still no help for getting a mortgage).

 

 

 

So, my question is... are there any grounds to get this removed from my file?

 

I had no overdraft arrangement and therefore Nationwide created the unauthorised overdraft purely by adding charges for the DD that was not met. Then accumulated those charges and defaulted the account.

 

I don't recall ever receiving any notice of the intended default but thats not to say they didn't send one.

I was assuming that while I was intending to dispute the charges (which I told them), no default would happen.

 

Also, if Nationwide have now seen fit to remove it from my file, are Lowell legally obliged to do the same as it's the same default?? And fundamentally, can I actually default on something that I never agreed to ie. the overdraft???

 

I have lodged an official complaint with Nationwide this week and am expecting a call soon so would be really useful to know where I stand legally on this.

 

Any advice much appreciated.

Edited October 1, 2013 by bandito22

[dx100uk]

the same debt should NOT be showing TWICE on the CRa file

 

you need to complain to the CRa people

 

you might want to check all three too.

 

dx

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hello Bandito22,

dx100uk has asked me to take a look at this for you.

I believe this may be possible to remove, given that Lowell are known to as awkward as possible we will go straight to the top of their steaming pile of........................:NW may well tell Lowell to remove the entry (as dx has said you MUST check all 3 main agencies asap)

 

The Information Commissioners Technical Guidance on Defaults states 'that if a default sum is made up of charges without which the account would NOT have defaulted no default should be placed'.

 

So you can send a copy of this letter to the Data Controller at NW.

 

Private & Confidential

For the personal attention of:

Ms Sarah de Tute

Director of Legal & Compliance

The Lowell Group

Enterprise House

1 Apex View

Leeds

LS11 9BH

 

Date:...................:

 

Ref: Use the one on Lowells letters:

Re: Entry on Credit Reference Files:

 

Dear Ms de Tute,

 

I refer to recent correspondence to and from Lowell regarding the entry Lowell is causing to be displayed on my credit reference files (I enclose a screen print of the entry on files held by (name agency).

 

The original creditor Nationwide agreed to remove all adverse data regarding this account and have done so as the placing of the default was considered unfair.

 

Lowell has refused to remove this entry without a request from Nationwide which I am sure you are aware is NOT necessary as Lowell is the Data Controller in this case and are named on the credit file entry.

 

This default was placed contrary to the ICO Technical Guidance on Defaults as the default sum consisted entirely of charges without which the account would not have defaulted therefore a default should not have been placed.

 

Lowell is now causing this incorrect default to be displayed on my credit files which has and is causing me great difficulty in applying for credit and mortgage finance.

 

Therefore as the original creditor has agreed and has removed the offending entries on ALL credit reference files I require Lowell to remove the inaccurate entries it is causing to be displayed on ALL credit reference agencies files to which it has reported this account.

 

I expect Lowell to comply with this requirement within 14 days from the date hereon and to confirm in writing that it has done so.

 

If Lowell fails to comply I WILL make a complaint to the ICO regarding the inaccurate data Lowell is causing to be displayed.

 

 

I suggest RM recorded/signed for post and check date received.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Please let us Know the outcome.

[bandito22]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the advice so far. Will check with other agencies ASAP.

 

I will speak to Nationwide complaints and reference the points you have mentioned and assume that Nationwide removed the default in the knowledge that it was fully made up of bank charges.

 

Following that, I will speak again with Lowell and use the same points of argument for the removal.

If they still refuse the letter will be on its way.

 

I will let you know the outcome.

 

Any further ammunition you may be able to offer me will be very much appreciated.

 

Once again, thanks for the help and quick responses.

 

Bandito!

Edited October 1, 2013 by bandito22

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

DO NOT PHONE LOWELL, you will get nowhere with customer (dis) service which has only a company script ton work non, the drafted letter will get to the person with authority to act.

[bandito22]

Just to update on what's happened now...

 

I was away for a couple of weeks so not been able to chase Lowells yet.

However, I got a letter from Nationwide stating:

 

"Unfortunately defaults can be duplicated whereby the company the account was sold to will register a further default for the same account."

 

It then goes on to explain they removed their version of the default. Then states...

 

"The default that remains on your credit file registered by Lowell is a true reflection of your accounts management and therefore will remain."

 

Then asks me to contact Lowell to arrange payment of the account (the account was satisfied a long time ago).

 

So, I am a bit confused... On one hand they say it's a fair reflection of my account and on the other hand they say they have removed their version of the default. So effectively, Nationwide tell me to speak to Lowells and Lowells tell me to get Nationwide to instruct them.

 

It states that they use Financial Conduct Authority rules when dealing with customer concerns. And if I am not happy with this outcome, to contact the financial ombudsman.

 

I will be sending the letter to Lowells today but would be interested in any opinions on what Nationwide are saying.

 

Thanks.

Edited October 11, 2013 by bandito22

[dx100uk]

as long as the default date has not moved forward in time that is!!

 

lowells are renowned for changing the original date to get around things

[bandito22]

as long as the default date has not moved forward in time that is!!

 

lowells are renowned for changing the original date to get around things

 

What do you mean? Are you suggesting they may try to make out it's a different default??

 

I have a screenshot of the original report, including the Nationwide default before they removed it.

[dx100uk]

as long as they don't change the org default date

 

dx

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

A move was started by some companies a while back to show the 'true status' of accounts on CRA files, the idea was to show the creditors original entry alongside a debt purchasers or DCAs entry when a debt was sold on, some still try this but usually the creditor will agree to remove their entry

As dx100 has said as long as the original default date is not changed there is not a problem.

[bandito22]

OK, Letter has been sent a few days ago.... fingers crossed!

But I doubt this will be as straightforward as just the one letter.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Let's wait and see!

[bandito22]

OK, had a response from Lowell that states:

 

"I have contacted Nationwide who have advised me that they provided you with a response to your dispute on 3 Oct 2013. In this they confirmed that they would remove their default as it was a duplicate. The letter also advised that the default would remain as it is a true and accurate reflection of how the account had been managed. Upon review of the default entry on your credit file, I am satisfied that this is being reported accurately."

 

"We are obliged to ensure the information is recorded accurately in line with the guidance and regulation that governs our industry. Subsequently, I cannot agree to remove the default from your credit file."

 

I then goes on to state that I can contact the FOS if I am not happy.

 

It does not mention anywhere that the default amount was made up entirely of fees or how that might be a reason for removal.

 

Any thoughts much appreciated.

 

(incidentally, I did not send a copy of the original letter to Nationwide as I thought it was just Lowell I needed to convince)

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

once the NW entry is removed the credit file is then up to date and correct.

[bandito22]

The NW entry has already been removed.

 

My argument was that the whole matter was made up of bank charges and should therefore be removed by both parties.

[bandito22]

So, going back to my original question. Are there any grounds I can argue to get this removed??

 

Thanks.

[ims21]

The NW entry has already been removed.

 

My argument was that the whole matter was made up of bank charges and should therefore be removed by both parties.

 

What steps have you taken to get those charges taken off the account (if any)?

 

What was the date of your correspondence to the bank to cancel all direct debits and on what date did this attempt at taking a direct debit happen?

[bandito22]

What steps have you taken to get those charges taken off the account (if any)?

 

What was the date of your correspondence to the bank to cancel all direct debits and on what date did this attempt at taking a direct debit happen?

 

Sorry, it was so long ago I don't have any record of those exact dates.

Direct debits were just cancelled using online banking and the attempt to take the amount was within 1 month of that.

As I said, they then accumulated the charges but I was stupidly throwing away the letters assuming they were just statements with my zero balance. Until I finally noticed what was going on.

 

I told them I was going to dispute the charges and while I was waiting for the test case to complete, they defaulted the amount.

[ims21]

Personally I think you are going to find it difficult to get this removed.

 

The way I read this is that Nationwide only agreed to remove their entry on the credit file rather than the default itself and this was because Lowell added their entry when they took over the debt. That means that this default now only shows once which is correct.

 

So assuming Nationwide have not removed the default then the default still stands as it represents an accurate picture of how the account was operated.

 

If you can get a success in getting those charges removed from the account then there is a very good chance of getting the actual default removed but getting those charges reversed/refunded is not going to be easy or quick.

 

The reason I asked about timing was that if you could show that you cancelled all direct debits and the bank had reasonable time to action that and yet still allowed one to be called and charged for the refusal then you may have a stronger case.

 

You could try a Subject Access Request to Nationwide to get hold of all of the data on the account and then look at the activity logs to see when they logged the cancellation of the direct debits. If you cancelled them using on-line banking, that should be pretty immediate and if it was, say a week or more later that they allowed a direct debit to be called, refused it and then charged for it then that is going to help you.

 

Unfortunately BCOBS didn't come into force until after all this happened but if you can show that your bank treated you unfairly then there still may be a case for fos to look at.

[bandito22]

OK, thanks.

 

I will go ahead with the Subject Access Request to Nationwide and see what comes back.

 

The real annoying part is that my girlfriend is expecting our first child and the house we have is not suitable for a baby so I really need to be moving ASAP, but this stupid default is now preventing me from doing that.

 

Thanks again for the advice.

Edited October 19, 2013 by bandito22

[dx100uk]

many prime mortgage companies are allowing one default now.

dx

[bandito22]

Any idea which ones?

 

My broker told me there was no chance with any of the main lenders.

 

Thanks.

[dx100uk]

that's a broker for you.

 

there was an article in credit today Im sure recently

 

pers i'm sure this can be sorted once we get the statements.

 

it is very unfair and nationwide should not be wiping their hands of it.

 

the other sad thing is

you should have come here first before settling

 

we would of advised only to settled

on the strict condition the DCA removed the default.

 

dx

[bandito22]

Spoke to a solicitor and he had advised that I threaten to take them to court and then if they do not remove it, file a claim in the court.

 

If they (Lowell) do not defend the claim, it will be found in my favour.

 

I was wondering if anyone has any experience in the area i.e. is it likely to get me anywhere??

 

Thanks.