Am I liable to take back my privately sold car, if problems were found after the sale?

[ruchi175]

Hi,

 

I sold my ten year old Citroen privately to a buyer. The car had cosmetic damages on the passenger door side i have taken photos of all these damages and listed on autotrader, it had 5 months MOT let and Full service history, recently changed cam timing belt and fitted new battery. The seller come down checks the car for 2 hours and take it away after signing a sale receipt which mentions "sold as seen". 18 days on he calls me and says he got an independent check and there is a list of fault with a major fault with gearbox which he claims has been there for a while now and the car is now not road worthy. He says he can give me 3 options, 1 i take back he car and give him his money back, 2 I pay for the repair costs or 3 we fight it out in court. He is quite stern and I'm so stressed since this was my first car and i do not know anything about buying or selling.

 

He claims i have sold him a non road worthy car and I am breaching some buyer seller act or trading standard act. He also claims that the independent check does prove the problem has been there for quite a bit and the car was in fact non road worthy at the time of sale and i have sold him an unsafe car which is a criminal offence? I honestly dont know much about cars and i have been using it without problems. I have asked him to send me the report by email its been 6 days an no news. Today he has rung me twice and i haven't answered.

 

Can anyone please advice? Should I get legal help? And also I just cannot answer his calls, its too stressful. What should i do next? Am i in the wrong? I have always kept MOT tax up to date, changed battery and cam belt at 69k even though recommendation is to change at 70k. I would never have sold knowing it had problems and may even consider chipping in to cost of repair if that's what i am supposed to. I just don't want it to be a case of him taking advantage of my lack of knowledge.

 

Thanks

R

Edited October 1, 2013 by ruchi175
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[Dukesy]

IF the vehicle is truly unroadworthy, AND was in that condition at the time of sale, then you have committed an offence under section 75 of the Road Traffic Act if the vehicle was not described as being unroadworthy. The question is, though, ARE the faults genuine, were they there at the time of sale, and DO they really make the vehicle unroadworthy. Whatever the case, though, it is EXTREMELY unlikely that you would face a criminal prosecution for this if you're not a trader.

 

What I imagine you would be taken to court for would be misrepresentation. Can you provide the text from the advert?

Edited October 1, 2013 by Dukesy

[Conniff]

The response should be No.3 fight it out in court.

 

Do not talk on the phone, use either email or Royal Mail or text and keep them safe.

 

I trust he took it for a test drive ?

[sailor sam]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

I always give advice based on the information I am given.

 

I'm assuming that you are NOT in any way shape or form a trader and you have owned the car for some time and your name was on the V5c. I also assume that you accurately (as far as possible) described the car in any advertising and did not miss-lead the buyer in any way.

 

Based on the info you have provided and that my assumptions are correct, your have no responsibilities under the SOGA towards the buyer at all. Thus meaning he would have no case against you if he chose to pursue you for any costs or refund.

 

Buying a car via a private transaction is at the buyer's risk. The only comeback is if you deliberately miss-lead a buyer by falsely advertising the car.

[ruchi175]

@Dukesy Thanks for the reply. Here is the advert. I haven't received any reports from him which show the car was road worthy at the time of sale though he claims he's got them. I assumed as a provate seller I am onbliged to make sure my advert is not misleading and that I havent knowingly hidden any facts. Neither is the case and if it was proven to be road unworthy i suppose i can take it back and get it fixed myself? The car is legally now in his wife's name.

 

3 Door Convertible, Green, Petrol, Automatic, ABS, Folding rear seats, Front armrest, Passenger airbag, Side airbags, Immobiliser. 2 previous lady owner(s), 5 months MOT, 2 months road tax, full service history, low mileage, excellent condition, non-smoker, has a wide scratch across passenger door with a slight dent pictures attached, the beading has come off but I'll get that sorted before the sale. Car runs very well no problems. spent 550£ recently to get new cam belts and new battery. Selling since I'm moving to the city in a couple of weeks and don't have time to fix the scratch/dent. Just run 1000 miles in the last year. Looking for 1500 ono, valued close to 2k by evaluation websites

 

@Conniff yes he did for about 10-15 minutes, he did want to take it on a dual carraigeway or motorway to get it to higher gears but i took him to a nearby dual carriageway and it had traffic so he couldnt go up to higher gears and he claims the gear box problems is apparent only in higher gears.

 

@sailor sam Thanks. Nope i am not a trader of any sort. this was my first car and i am horribly nervous driver and know nothing about cars.

[Conniff]

Even on a slow town road the box should have gone into top gear. Are you saying that town driving was always in the lower gears ?

 

The only unsafe thing about an auto box is if it should drop into 'Park' without warning and as that wasn't happening then it is not unsafe.

[Surfer01]

Has he listed the reasons for it not being roadworthy. A faulty gearbox does not make a car unroadworthy. As it is a private sale and he spent 2 hours checking the car before handing over the cash, it is a case of "buyer beware". He needs to prove that you knew of the faults prior to selling and that could be difficult for him. IMHO his wife does not want the car which si why he wants a refund. Court is the best option as I doubt whether they will win if you were honest with your ad.

[sailor sam]

If the buyer was able to drive it away, then it was 'roadworthy' at the point of sale.

 

Again, from the information you provided, the buyer has no comeback against you.

[Conniff]

Don't be intimidated by him or his texts richi, make sure you keep them safe, don't delete them. If they start to increase into threats,

you can report him to the police for harassment.

[ruchi175]

Hi yes, there was bumper to bumper traffic since it was peak hours in the evening so i don't think he could get it to 5th gear.it was a sensodrive gearbox which had triptronic and automatic. so it had two modes in triptronic you could use + or- buttons to move up or down otherwise just set it to auto and it does its job. The settings of the gearstick were R,N or drive like this

Even on a slow town road the box should have gone into top gear. Are you saying that town driving was always in the lower gears ?

 

The only unsafe thing about an auto box is if it should drop into 'Park' without warning and as that wasn't happening then it is not unsafe.

[ruchi175]

I have been advised not to answer his call and stick to texts. What should I be texting him though? to tell him I am not liable or should i be asking for the report?

[ruchi175]

Opps was going to post a pic of the gearstick but I am a new member so cant post url's.

Hi yes, there was bumper to bumper traffic since it was peak hours in the evening so i don't think he could get it to 5th gear.it was a sensodrive gearbox which had triptronic and automatic. so it had two modes in triptronic you could use + or- buttons to move up or down otherwise just set it to auto and it does its job. The settings of the gearstick were R,N or drive like this

[ruchi175]

No he didnt list anything he just was a bit vague over the phone and thats why i asked him to send me the report and he hasnt sent me anything yet, its been 6 days since i sent him my email id. If it was me and my money was on the line i would have jumped on it immediately and sent him the report. He just seems too keen to talk over phone which is something i just cant do anymore. its affecting me at work.

Has he listed the reasons for it not being roadworthy. A faulty gearbox does not make a car unroadworthy. As it is a private sale and he spent 2 hours checking the car before handing over the cash, it is a case of "buyer beware". He needs to prove that you knew of the faults prior to selling and that could be difficult for him. IMHO his wife does not want the car which si why he wants a refund. Court is the best option as I doubt whether they will win if you were honest with your ad.

[marmaris30]

Sounds like a classic chancer to me, and I've had this happen to me on selling an obvious and unashamed banger. In a private sale, the time for inspections and testing is before handing over the cash, not after the event, at which point the sale is unconditional - the seller can't have his car back and the buyer can't have his cash back. Only if you knowingly passed off a turkey as a golden goose would you be liable for anything but since you say the car's servicing and papers were all in order, and presumably it doesn't billow black smoke, you're completely in the clear.

 

All of us have probably at least once changed our minds or fallen out of love with a thing we bought, but that's just the luck of the draw.

 

Unless the buyer is a friend you want to keep, I'd suggest that any communication is in writing only.

 

Don't be intimidated by legal threats - plenty of people here have seen off claims from well-funded institutions that might actually have had the makings of a case. A chancer without any evidence or legal basis for a claim would be wasting his own time and money suing you, and I'd be surprised if it came to that.

[ruchi175]

Hi Rxxxx,

 

As per our telephone call, text’s and email please see attached report from Lincoln Citroen Main Dealer stating the car is un-roadworthy and unsafe to drive.

 

Under the sale of goods act 1979 you stated in your advert that “car runs very well no problems” but this statement was untrue.

 

Stated on the main dealers report there is a quote for £589inc vat for the repairs to be done too make the car roadworthy.

 

Your choices are:

 

1. Contribute to the repairs (you pay for the part and we will have to pay for it to be fitted)

2. Purchase the vehicle back at the same price we paid for it £1,300 cash

3. Court action

 

I will await your response within 7 days of the email by phone (07xxx xxx xxx my mobile) or by reply to this email on what action you wish to take.

 

If you do not respond I can then only assume that you wish to take the 3rd option and in that case as advised by trading standards I will see you in court.

 

I look forward to settling this matter with you soon.

 

Kind Regards

J

[ruchi175]

I've just received this email from him. Is he right in his place?

[Conniff]

No, he is not right and the quote from Trading Standards is very very dubious as you can't get to TS now except via CAB and all this takes a lot of time.

 

As a private seller, you do not come under the Sale of Goods Act.

 

As suggested above, they probably have decided they don't like the car so want their money back.

 

Ruchi, will you please send me the dealers report via private mail, just click on my name.

[ruchi175]

Thanks Sending it now

 

No, he is not right and the quote from Trading Standards is very very dubious as you can't get to TS now except via CAB and all this takes a lot of time.

 

As a private seller, you do not come under the Sale of Goods Act.

 

As suggested above, they probably have decided they don't like the car so want their money back.

 

Ruchi, will you please send me the dealers report via private mail, just click on my name.

[ruchi175]

Thanks marmaris I suspect you guys are right. I was alone during the sale and I was quite upset and distraught towards the end of his inspections so I do think he is just trying to scare me into paying him.

Sounds like a classic chancer to me, and I've had this happen to me on selling an obvious and unashamed banger. In a private sale, the time for inspections and testing is before handing over the cash, not after the event, at which point the sale is unconditional - the seller can't have his car back and the buyer can't have his cash back. Only if you knowingly passed off a turkey as a golden goose would you be liable for anything but since you say the car's servicing and papers were all in order, and presumably it doesn't billow black smoke, you're completely in the clear.

 

All of us have probably at least once changed our minds or fallen out of love with a thing we bought, but that's just the luck of the draw.

 

Unless the buyer is a friend you want to keep, I'd suggest that any communication is in writing only.

 

Don't be intimidated by legal threats - plenty of people here have seen off claims from well-funded institutions that might actually have had the makings of a case. A chancer without any evidence or legal basis for a claim would be wasting his own time and money suing you, and I'd be surprised if it came to that.

[Westmead Fan]

what is in this report, it would be very interesting to read, then we can advise you even better

 

don't worry about this he is talking aload of rubbish.

[ruchi175]

Here are the reports he has sent me so far along with the email i mentioned above. Any advice?

[Surfer01]

Firstly he quotes the SOGA and there is no way that TS would have given him that advice. As for the Kwik fit quote if you do a search on CAG for Kwikfit you will never go near one of their branches again so that can be safely ignored. If there was an issue with the clutch at time of purchase surely on his way home he would have noticed it and either returned or contacted you immediately. There si the possibility that while in their care, they damaged the clutch on the car. The term "runs well" covers a multitude of sins as the engine runs well, the wheels run well, steering runs well, etc etc!

[ruchi175]

@Surfer01 Would you recommend i stand ground and call his bluff? I am trying to establish if I'm in the right, if there is a chance I'm the one at fault i wouldn't mind settling by paying for the part. Also he had first contacted me on 24th saying the car is not road worthy but his reports show that he just got it done between 27-30. Im amazed that there are such people around who could pick on vulnerable people.

Firstly he quotes the SOGA and there is no way that TS would have given him that advice. As for the Kwik fit quote if you do a search on CAG for Kwikfit you will never go near one of their branches again so that can be safely ignored. If there was an issue with the clutch at time of purchase surely on his way home he would have noticed it and either returned or contacted you immediately. There si the possibility that while in their care, they damaged the clutch on the car. The term "runs well" covers a multitude of sins as the engine runs well, the wheels run well, steering runs well, etc etc!

[Surfer01]

@Surfer01 Would you recommend i stand ground and call his bluff? I am trying to establish if I'm in the right, if there is a chance I'm the one at fault i wouldn't mind settling by paying for the part. Also he had first contacted me on 24th saying the car is not road worthy but his reports show that he just got it done between 27-30. Im amazed that there are such people around who could pick on vulnerable people.

IMHO he does not have a leg to stand on. He tested the car prior to paying for it which indicated he was satisfied with his purchase. He had the opportunity to return the car if a fault developed on the drive home, but chose not to do so. I cannot see any misrepresentation which is his only way out of the purchase and the legal costs for this will exceed the value of the car and he still stands a very good chance of loosing.

[ruchi175]

Thanks Surfer01 and to everyone who has replied till now. It helped me gain confidence that I haven't done something wrong. I'll keep this thread posted about the outcome and what I did in the end so it may help someone else in future.

IMHO he does not have a leg to stand on. He tested the car prior to paying for it which indicated he was satisfied with his purchase. He had the opportunity to return the car if a fault developed on the drive home, but chose not to do so. I cannot see any misrepresentation which is his only way out of the purchase and the legal costs for this will exceed the value of the car and he still stands a very good chance of loosing.