ATOS appeals: GP's charging £130

[claire1981]

So what the bloody hell do you want me to comment on !

 

Calm down dear!

[RaeUK]

I've never been charged for supporting evidence by my GP. She has readily supplied copies of documents that I thought would be useful as well as letters of support. The DWP were charged for a report for DLA and I was given a photocopy gratis. It proved useful, amongst other evidence, for my ESA claim.

 

... It would seem more likely down to the fact that GPs are just that, mostly specialists in the field of a little bit of everything- but nothing special...

For my particular illness, my GP surgery is acknowledged by my local hospital as being able to offer better care then they can. Which is why I've never seen a Consultant there as I already get the best treatment available. Edited August 28, 2013 by RaeUK

[45002]

Calm down dear!

 

I need a drink

[claire1981]

For my particular illness, my GP surgery is acknowledged by my local hospital as being able to offer better care then they can. Which is why I've never seen a Consultant there as I already get the best treatment available.

 

I'm glad that this is the case for you. But sadly for many & even for myself, we aren't even offered a choice of a local hospital & simply can't get to a specialist to be diagnosed. My GP notes claim that I was offered a choice of hospital- I wasn't!

[fightingback99]

I need a drink

 

Me too plus a cigarette , nope make that a packet.!

[antone]

 

But as a consumer directly affected by this topic of whether GPs should charge- it's nice to know my views are not welcome & dismissed as incoherent babel.

 

It's not that your views are unwelcome, what I said was that the interruptions are unwelcome. There is a big difference between discussing what (if anything) GPs should charge, and discussing whether or not GPs are complicit in genocide.

 

I apologise if I sounded glib, that was not my intent - sometimes I let my fingers run faster than my brain. But I stand by my request that we keep things in line and on topic.

[Laird_Scooby]

As somone now embarking on claiming ESA for the second time (first time was due to a permanent ankle injury which has resulted in severe disability) due to a potential heart condition (no doubt brought on by the ankle injury which led to diabetes amongst other things), i find the whole system of ATOS and GPs flawed.

Firstly if your GP has seen fit to issue a med cert in the first palce, that should be good enough for ATOS - they shouldn't demand a WCA as like i said during my tribunal, it is a 43 minute snapshot of someones life and can not therefore be relied on to give an accurate assessment.

While GPs only see their patients for 10 mins or so on each appt, they have seen the patient regularly for some time usually and as such have built up a "time-lapse" video of how that person is on different days. Therefore if they feel a med cert is in order in the first place, surely they are better qualified to say that than some non-qualified pen-pusher masquerading as a Healthscare Professional?

As for having to pay a GP for information they should already have given for free to ATOS, that is nothing more than fraud and should be investigated immediately.

[claire1981]

It's not that your views are unwelcome, what I said was that the interruptions are unwelcome. There is a big difference between discussing what (if anything) GPs should charge, and discussing whether or not GPs are complicit in genocide.

 

I apologise if I sounded glib, that was not my intent - sometimes I let my fingers run faster than my brain. But I stand by my request that we keep things in line and on topic.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one to ever go off topic. It happens in almost every topic as far as I can see, some completely off topic- but it doesn't feel like they get berated! Sorry but I'm a human being- I can't be a robot, only programmed with a one track mind! Comparisons with ATOS/DWP & other factions are very common among disability rights groups. They seem to feel we should have learned from the past & not be repeating it in other ways. It's not as if it was a million miles off topic.

[Laird_Scooby]

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one to ever go off topic. It happens in almost every topic as far as I can see, some completely off topic- but it doesn't feel like they get berated! Sorry but I'm a human being- I can't be a robot, only programmed with a one track mind! Comparisons with ATOS/DWP & other factions are very common among disability rights groups. They seem to feel we should have learned from the past & not be repeating it in other ways. It's not as if it was a million miles off topic.

 

I have to confess i'm probably one of the worst offenders for thread-wander but i would like to point out that when you're discussing something as emotionally volatile as this then many people are going to put their two penn'orth in (or £124.50 worth in the case of the GP) and with everyone being individuals (something else ATOS forget!) they are bound to add little bits or comment on what someone else has said and hey-presto, your thread has wandered!

Much like it's doing now with my comment although in fairness i'm only saying this in the hope of killing the wander so we can get back to discussing whether GPs should charge and how much for something they are meant to provide for free.

[antone]

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one to ever go off topic. It happens in almost every topic as far as I can see, some completely off topic- but it doesn't feel like they get berated! Sorry but I'm a human being- I can't be a robot, only programmed with a one track mind! Comparisons with ATOS/DWP & other factions are very common among disability rights groups. They seem to feel we should have learned from the past & not be repeating it in other ways. It's not as if it was a million miles off topic.

 

Here's the thing: one of my jobs on CAG is to do my best to ensure that things go as smoothly as possible. We're focused on helping people with benefit problems. Now, sometimes we get the odd bit of politics or the odd aside in a thread and, as long as things don't get out of hand, we look the other way - stuff happens, you know? But it can prove disruptive to our mission (self-help advice) when people express extreme positions. I consider it to be an "extreme position" when one accuses a significant number of people, most of whom you've never met, of heinous crimes.

[claire1981]

Here's the thing: one of my jobs on CAG is to do my best to ensure that things go as smoothly as possible. We're focused on helping people with benefit problems. Now, sometimes we get the odd bit of politics or the odd aside in a thread and, as long as things don't get out of hand, we look the other way - stuff happens, you know? But it can prove disruptive to our mission (self-help advice) when people express extreme positions. I consider it to be an "extreme position" when one accuses a significant number of people, most of whom you've never met, of heinous crimes.

 

'other factions' I see you have gone all msn on us! You do realize that getting rid of the word will sadly not eradicate such thinking. It also seems disrespectful to all those who died, not to let lessons be learned. Allowing us to remember & discourage similar dangerous thinking? Also I hope you're not a history teacher, as it was a major part of British history- relevant even today.

 

Also it seems pretty pointless to ask anyone whether they feel disabled people should be charged for reports. It seems quite likely those who can't afford reports, but need them will say no. Those who are a little bit better off may feel people should pay. And some may think it should depend on the persons condition, whether it's self inflicted or personal circumstances.

Edited August 28, 2013 by claire1981

[Nystagmite]

While GPs only see their patients for 10 mins or so on each appt, they have seen the patient regularly for some time usually and as such have built up a "time-lapse" video of how that person is on different days. Therefore if they feel a med cert is in order in the first place, surely they are better qualified to say that than some non-qualified pen-pusher masquerading as a Healthscare Professional?

 

I've never had this with a GP. The GP I was registered with, I've only seen once or twice. Last year, every time apart from twice, I was seen by the student GP. Unfortunately, he's left now. The GP I am due to see on Friday, I don't know at all.

 

I say was registered with, because when I had to re-register in 2010, my paperwork didn't mention a GP. It just told me the surgery.

[claire1981]

I've never had this with a GP. The GP I was registered with, I've only seen once or twice. Last year, every time apart from twice, I was seen by the student GP. Unfortunately, he's left now. The GP I am due to see on Friday, I don't know at all.

 

I say was registered with, because when I had to re-register in 2010, my paperwork didn't mention a GP. It just told me the surgery.

 

Yes, that's my experience too. I have only seen the same GP a few times. My past surgery passed me around to all different GPs at the surgery to get rid of me. My new one only has 1 GP, who I have only been able to see a few times + locum. He refuses to acknowledge postal communication- which is the only real way I can communicate properly. Even when I did see GPs, I later found in medical records that what I said was more often than not misreported- so I prefer to write to them now anyway.

[Laird_Scooby]

I used to get the same, being passed round from pillar to post by GPs then after some very strange things happened (like being prescribed the wrong pills!) i refused to see certain GPs and then decided to make sure i only saw one GP. If more people insisted on this, there would be less chance of being passed round like a half-eaten pack of stale biscuits at a coffee morning!

Claire - i'm sorry you have difficulty explaining things face to face to the GP, i've had a few things mis-reported myself by my GP when they haven't understood what has been said and it's incredibly frustrating!

[antone]

'other factions' I see you have gone all msn on us! You do realize that getting rid of the word will sadly not eradicate such thinking. It also seems disrespectful to all those who died, not to let lessons be learned. Allowing us to remember & discourage similar dangerous thinking? Also I hope you're not a history teacher, as it was a major part of British history- relevant even today.

 

Also it seems pretty pointless to ask anyone whether they feel disabled people should be charged for reports. It seems quite likely those who can't afford reports, but need them will say no. Those who are a little bit better off may feel people should pay. And some may think it should depend on the persons condition, whether it's self inflicted or personal circumstances.

 

::Sigh::

 

I don't know what to say - I'm pointing out to you that following our rules is not optional if you wish to participate in this forum. You may choose to equate GPs charging £100 for a medical report with the systematic slaughter of millions, that's your right. I'm just asking you to do it somewhere else. We don't allow the sort of comparison you made because it's inflammatory and disruptive. I hope you understand this, because I'd rather not go around this particular house again.

 

Is it pointless to ask if disabled people should be charged for reports? I don't think so. There are a lot of disabled people on this website, and the issue is highly relevant to them. My personal opinion is that this will not happen, but if it does, I would be opposed - I think the DWP should pay for them.

[claire1981]

::Sigh::

 

I don't know what to say - I'm pointing out to you that following our rules is not optional if you wish to participate in this forum. You may choose to equate GPs charging £100 for a medical report with the systematic slaughter of millions, that's your right. I'm just asking you to do it somewhere else. We don't allow the sort of comparison you made because it's inflammatory and disruptive. I hope you understand this, because I'd rather not go around this particular house again.

 

Is it pointless to ask if disabled people should be charged for reports? I don't think so. There are a lot of disabled people on this website, and the issue is highly relevant to them. My personal opinion is that this will not happen, but if it does, I would be opposed - I think the DWP should pay for them.

 

 

You are correct millions did die, but even if only one person had died from that- that would have been 1 person too many. Or should we only value life by the ton? I'm not trying to be inflammatory, just treat people as individuals- something ATOS/Gov doesn't seem to do very often. They seem to see clients as if part of a cattle market, where people have become equal to livestock!

 

To put it another way what good will it do to ask if people should be charged? Do you have favor with the powers that be? As far as I'm aware; no one here does- or am I wrong?

[RaeUK]

I believe Godwin's Law framed this quite nicely.

[claire1981]

I believe Godwin's Law framed this quite nicely.

 

Godwin's law only applies if the comparison is used inappropriately. There are many disabled & able bodied people in the UK, who feel the comparison is more than justified!

[antone]

I do not have any favour with the powers that be. I'm currently looking for work and my wife supports us. She runs a project for a voluntary organisation that helps older folks with their gardens. Before that we were on benefits. As you can imagine, that means I am not in any way politically connected or in any position of power. In the last few years I've worked as a grunt for the the DWP, which is why I'm here.

 

Now I accept that you're not trying to be inflammatory, but nonetheless that is the effect. One of our respected members started this thread as a way of providing information to those who might need to know.

 

We do also have a forum called "The Bear Garden" where the rules are somewhat more relaxed, and you are welcome to start threads there if you wish to discuss political topics.

[antone]

Godwin's law only applies if the comparison is used inappropriately. There are many disabled & able bodied people in the UK, who feel the comparison is more than justified!

 

There are very few occasions when it's appropriate to compare an action or situation with the wholesale slaughter of millions and an attempt to conquer the entire world.

[RaeUK]

Godwin's law only applies if the comparison is used inappropriately.

Three consecutive ESA applications, two failed Tribunals, four and a half years of financial and physical hell before getting placed into the Support Group for the maximum time. All that doesn't even equate to one half day in the life of one camp inmate.

Now, that's enough of my observations. Back to the actual problem in hand please ...

[claire1981]

There are very few occasions when it's appropriate to compare an action or situation with the wholesale slaughter of millions and an attempt to conquer the entire world.

 

 

Billions are killed by legal abortion lawfully- this trumps your figures regarding the 1940s deaths. Mass murder via abortion is also reaching every part of the globe- further than you know who ever got! But as these are vulnerable people considered worth less to the economy, their deaths are seen as less important!

 

I think you will also find that you know who tried to rid the world of disabled people! Today it's a few dozen of us killed off every week by our own government, but when this treatment becomes common law- it too may reach millions. Many of us already face execution/abortion before birth just for being disabled. And in time as new tests are created, sadly this figure is only expected to rise.

 

You may see what I say as political but you could not be more wrong. The above is not politics, but personal agenda of individuals! There's not a single person alive who doesn't have their own agenda. The world is built on money & the preservation of it first- not people!

[antone]

Billions are killed by legal abortion lawfully- this trumps your figures regarding the 1940s deaths. Mass murder via abortion is also reaching every part of the globe- further than you know who ever got! But as these are vulnerable people considered worth less to the economy, their deaths are seen as less important!

 

I think you will also find that you know who tried to rid the world of disabled people! Today it's a few dozen of us killed off every week by our own government, but when this treatment becomes common law- it too may reach millions. Many of us already face execution/abortion before birth just for being disabled. And in time as new tests are created, sadly this figure is only expected to rise.

 

You may see what I say as political but you could not be more wrong. The above is not politics, but personal agenda of individuals! There's not a single person alive who doesn't have their own agenda. The world is built on money & the preservation of it first- not people!

 

We're sure as heck not having an abortion debate here. Drop this now. I don't like to close threads or delete posts, but I'll make an exception for that particular can of worms.

[Laird_Scooby]

Before you close the thread, can i just say i think Claire1981 is trying to illustrate her point, not trying to spark a debate on abortion, genocide or similar.

 

I understand as a moderator you have a job to do but if you read a few of her other posts she seems to use various "world events" to try and explain her points.

 

Not intending to be argumentative or confrontational, just trying to give a different view-point to hopefully prevent this thread being closed and perhaps more of a "horses for courses" approach to individuals - after all we can't all of us be erudite, eloquent orators or writers or anything else for that matter.

[antone]

Before you close the thread, can i just say i think Claire1981 is trying to illustrate her point, not trying to spark a debate on abortion, genocide or similar.

 

I understand as a moderator you have a job to do but if you read a few of her other posts she seems to use various "world events" to try and explain her points.

 

Not intending to be argumentative or confrontational, just trying to give a different view-point to hopefully prevent this thread being closed and perhaps more of a "horses for courses" approach to individuals - after all we can't all of us be erudite, eloquent orators or writers or anything else for that matter.

 

If the topic is dropped, I won't close the thread. As I said, that's not my style - I try to avoid such things where I can. But the thing is, while I accept that Claire1981 is not trying to start a debate on these topics, out here in the real internet world, comments like these do spark debates.

 

Look, people get angry and upset. I know that. I understand that - I've done it myself. It's entirely natural to be passionate about one's views. But as you say, I have a job to do. I need to keep order. The order here is that we help people with benefit issues and, as I said upthread, turn a blind eye to a little civil political discussion.