Charged with S.5.3.a Reg Of Railways Act ** Resolved **

[45002]

Do you know much about the conviction with regards to entering the USA? Was hoping to go next year another worry i now have. Been reading though there are exceptions to their moral turpitude question something along the line of if the conviction doesnt carry a max prison sentance of 1 year?

 

Just been reading about moral turpitude here http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=88599

Edited September 21, 2013 by honeybee13

[BCFC87]

I have called them this morning and they have recieved my letter and they have told me my file is " on hold" so hopefully they are considering it really hope so

[oleg]

The old US visa application form asked "Are you a practicing [sic] homosexual?" . . . to which the only worthwhile reply was "Hell no: I'm perfect."

Moral: Ignore their mindless probing. I have never witnessed a single act of turpitude in UK . Maybe it's rampant in the mean streets of the Bronx.

[BazzaS]

The old US visa application form asked "Are you a practicing [sic] homosexual?" . . . to which the only worthwhile reply was "Hell no: I'm perfect."

Moral: Ignore their mindless probing. I have never witnessed a single act of turpitude in UK . Maybe it's rampant in the mean streets of the Bronx.

 

I understand the sentiment behind this advice.

In this day of "data sharing" I'm not sure it is wise to "just ignore their mindless probing"

 

What if you have a conviction, travel without a visa, fib when asked about convictions, and they say "what about X (minor conviction?"

 

You get the visa waiver declined, and excluded from being granted a visa as a result of lying on their forms.

 

Tell the truth, likely get a visa, and no spending the whole flight worrying if you'll get admitted at the border.

[BCFC87]

You're welcome. Nope, the costs won't change. They'd only vary immencely if you pleaded not guilty and their witness(s) were summonsed or it was a complex case with CCTV being pulled etc. Your case seems quite straight forward.

 

Stigy is there anyway i can message you ? it wont let me on here cheers

[ims21]

Stigy is there anyway i can message you ? it wont let me on here cheers

 

Please keep all discussion on the thread.

 

It is foolish to give out any personal contact information on an open forum which the whole world can see.

Edited September 21, 2013 by honeybee13

[BCFC87]

I have not posted any personal information?

[ims21]

I have not posted any personal information?

 

I know but asking for some method to message someone might cause them to post personal contact information on the thread which is most unwise and indeed against the site rules.

 

There appears to be no reason why this discussion cannot be carried out on thread.

 

If there are very strong reasons why you feel this cannot be done then please PM me with them.

 

Ta

Edited September 21, 2013 by honeybee13

[Grotesque]

I understand the sentiment behind this advice.

In this day of "data sharing" I'm not sure it is wise to "just ignore their mindless probing"

 

What if you have a conviction, travel without a visa, fib when asked about convictions, and they say "what about X (minor conviction?"

 

You get the visa waiver declined, and excluded from being granted a visa as a result of lying on their forms.

 

Tell the truth, likely get a visa, and no spending the whole flight worrying if you'll get admitted at the border.

 

Since the Patriot Act 2001, I'm not sure that's the worst case scenario any more-!

[BCFC87]

It doesn't really make a difference, however it will look better on your part as it shows you're serious about this matter and are genuinely sorry. Also, it'll be nice to have a last attempt to settle if you so wish.

 

dx raises a good question, although it's increasingly more difficult to buy a Child rate ticket by mistake these days, if for example somebody bought it for you (parent etc), it could act as a defence, as you can say you didn't intend to avoid any payment. I think you probably answered all the questions put to you to the contrary though...

 

Do you think at this point it would be worth getting a solisitor to help with the matter regarding settling? how long do you get to respond to the summons? Cheers

[Grotesque]

Solicitors are quite impressive to us Joe Public, but not particularly to people whose entire working lives are based on a very specific segment of legislation- unlike the solicitor, usually. Unless a case goes to Crown Court they are unlikely to say anything to the railway prosecutor that you couldn't say and probably not so well. Certainly not so meaningfully.

[Stigy]

Stigy is there anyway i can message you ? it wont let me on here cheers

 

I don't know a great deal about the conviction with regard to travelling to the USA, but the others have covered that anyway. Is there something else specific you need an answer to? I don't see the harm in posting it hear, as that way you'll receive the best possible advice from several different posters.

Edited September 21, 2013 by honeybee13

[BazzaS]

how long do you get to respond to the summons? Cheers

 

Surely if it is a summons, you'll know when they want you to respond : it'll tell you the time, date and place of the court you are summonsed to appear before?

Edited September 21, 2013 by honeybee13

[BCFC87]

They have replied today and to my suprise they have basically sent quotes from an apparent conversation i had

Admitting intending to avoid fare. The quotes are complete lies and this whole affair now is making me very angry. These people have the powers to do such things pick out people they want to pick and let off the people they want to let off. There is two quotes on there that are complete lies and i would like to add i could hardly understand a word this so called inspector was saying as he was hiding his face 99% of the time behind his hi-vis jacket. i have already admitted what i did wrong and regret my actions but the fact there are so called quotes on there that did not happen how can they do this? To be honest i dont know why i am surprised it seems every single person who comes on here has the same problem.

[Old-CodJA]

They have replied today and to my suprise they have basically sent quotes from an apparent conversation i had

Admitting intending to avoid fare. The quotes are complete lies and this whole affair now is making me very angry.

 

 

If you are saying that an inspector has given a false statement you should certainly seek the advice of a Solicitor who specialises in criminal defence matters (bearing in mind Grotesque's remarks, which can be accurate in relation to solicitors at times), but do try to check that they have a track record in dealing with these sort of matters.

 

If this is something that has been summonsed to a court hearing, you should enter a not guilty plea.

Edited September 21, 2013 by honeybee13

[BCFC87]

If you are saying that an inspector has given a false statement you should certainly seek the advice of a Solicitor who specialises in criminal defence matters (bearing in mind Grotesque's remarks, which can be accurate in relation to solicitors at times), but do try to check that they have a track record in dealing with these sort of matters.

 

If this is something that has been summonsed to a court hearing, you should enter a not guilty plea.

 

These are in a letter from transport investigations. This is all getting too much for me now, really from the start it was a stupid mistake that i regret yes but all this over a £1.20 fare its unbelievable. There is a quote that i said"yes i got a childs ticket from the machine even though im 25" utter rubbish i didnt say that, another quote saying when he asked if i intended to avoid the fare it says i replied "yes" when i clearly replied no!!!!! The fact is i was then made to sign forms etc and the whole situation i didnt even read it so he could of quite easily realised my nievtey and got away with it. like i said the bloke was a joke, he was laughing in my face, he was rude, he deliberately talking behind his coat etc i will now be seeking legal advise simply out of principle

[Old-CodJA]

There is a quote that i said"yes i got a childs ticket from the machine even though im 25" utter rubbish i didnt say that, another quote saying when he asked if i intended to avoid the fare it says i replied "yes" when i clearly replied no!!!!!

 

The fact is i was then made to sign forms etc and the whole situation i didnt even read it so he could of quite easily realised my nievtey and got away with it.

 

 

 

I find it hard to believe that anyone can be made to sign something that they do not agree with and equally surprising that anyone should sign something that they have not read.

 

Do be aware that this is a very serious allegation, though you are doing the right thing by seeking legal advice if you are claiming that an inspector has falsified a statement.

Edited September 21, 2013 by honeybee13

[BazzaS]

These are in a letter from transport investigations. This is all getting too much for me now, really from the start it was a stupid mistake that i regret yes but all this over a £1.20 fare its unbelievable. There is a quote that i said"yes i got a childs ticket from the machine even though im 25" utter rubbish i didnt say that, another quote saying when he asked if i intended to avoid the fare it says i replied "yes" when i clearly replied no!!!!! The fact is i was then made to sign forms etc and the whole situation i didnt even read it so he could of quite easily realised my nievtey and got away with it. like i said the bloke was a joke, he was laughing in my face, he was rude, he deliberately talking behind his coat etc i will now be seeking legal advise simply out of principle

 

The court might consider the information that you claim he was rude, you might cast doubt on his report that you said you "got a child's ticket from the machine" whilst being 25 .....

but you may face an uphill struggle to convince them if you dispute his report based on being "made" to sign an incorrect report, or that you signed it without reading it.

 

The staff member "being rude" may not become relevant / even considered at trial if they can show you intended to avoid your fare.

 

The issue, I suspect, is if the doubt regarding intent. That if the doubt. you introduce by disputing the report will be considered as a "reasonable doubt" with the confluence of:

i) the ticket was purchased by your friend, and you'd have to state you didn't know it was a child's ticket

ii) the report you signed was incorrect, yet they "made" you sign it, and / or

iii) you signed it without reading it.

 

If it was someone else and you were sat on the bench : would you be swayed??

Edited September 21, 2013 by honeybee13

[Grotesque]

Indeed, and all in all, a potentially expensive principle...

[honeybee13]

This thread has been closed at the OP's request. Thank you to everyone who has contributed.

 

HB

Edited September 19, 2013 by honeybee13
Removing name.

[honeybee13]

This thread is being reopened at BCFC's request.

 

HB

[Grotesque]

Who? Birmingham City Football Club?

Edited September 19, 2013 by Grotesque

[honeybee13]

The OP, Grotesque.

 

HB

[BCFC87]

Hi,

Just to let you all know,

the original decision of mine to close the topic was because i was potentially going down the route of a solicitor.

 

I have asked the admin to re-open this topic so i can give you a follow up on the outcome,

which i have been fighting my a$$ off for the past 3 months

and help any one who ever gets in the same situation as me.

 

Let me start by explaining again briefly what happened on the day of the incident.

 

In a nutshell, like a complete idiot, i managed to get myself in a very stupid situation

by attempting to get away with purchasing a child's ticket for a 'one stop' train journey.

Something later i ended up very much regretting.

 

I was stopped by the RPO and first questioned about my age, i was honest from the start,

which actually led him to tell me he was allowing me to pay a £20 on the spot fine

because of my honestly and admitting it was a mistake to do such a thing.

 

Of course, i was happy with this, but within about 2 or 3 mins a second RPO came over to me and cautioned me for questioning.

He then took all my details, my case was sent off and it was dealt with through Transport Investigations LTD,

for Chiltern Railway.

 

I received a total of 4 letters in the end from this company, all stating they were intending to prosecute,

i was getting no where. My letters were well written, and i was trying to be as honest as i possibly could. Genuinely i felt very regretful, and i can genuinely say f

 

rom the second i got stooped i had learnt my lesson, my letters were not just words trying to get myself out of a pickle.

 

I received the standard first two letters from TIL which just seemed the basic template like letters

and even a third letter to say they have fully reviewed my case again but not changing their mind.

This is when i come to this forum.

 

I then sent a 4th letter offering an out of court settlement of £350 to which i got a personal response

from the Prosecutions manager rejecting this offer and telling me the issue for a court summons is now being made

and i would receive the papers shortly.

 

It was at this point i very nearly paid £900 to a solicitor because getting this criminal record would damage my whole career

within the transport industry.

 

After a long thought process i decided not to go with this, and sent a personal letter back to the prosecutions manager

begging one final time and asking for a second chance.

 

After i sent this letter i also tried to contact the manager by phone, several times,

so i could try and plead with him over the phone, but unfortunately they just do not allow this to happen

(his not in the office etc). I know this may be the case

 

so i actually sent another personal letter to the manager telling him i have been trying to call and can he please call me.

 

At this point i felt i needed to do more, i decided to get the Managing Directors of Chiltern Railways address off the internet

and i wrote a personal letter to him explaining my regret and asking for a second chance.

This was a last clutch at the straw for me, but it worked.

 

Yesterday i received a letter from TIL telling me Chiltern Railway have requested and authorised that TIL

offer an administration settlement, but also went on to explain how extremely rare it is in cases such as mine

(they had me banged to rights), but because i did show remorse and the effect it would have on my life

they are prepared to offer me a final warning and an admin settlement of £122.

 

The reason i decided to write this was not just to help people in this case,

but to show people if you do honestly and seriously regret something in life sometimes you can show it and get given a chance.

 

I can honestly say from this experience, i will NEVER step foot on a train or public transport again

without having the correct ticket in my wallet.

 

Its not about the money, you need to stop and think of the serious consequences something like that can have on you.

 

I have replied to TIL today, directly to the manager thanking him for giving me a chance,

and promised him that he will never see my name come up again, and trust me, he wont.

 

Thanks for all the responses several weeks ago.

[Grotesque]

nice one BCFC, great result, and fair play on ye for coming back and telling us. That's great advice for other posters too! Good luck.