Insurance policy cancelled following claim. In desperate need of legal advice

[jordan30]

INSURANCE CANCELLED FOLLOWING CLAIM

 

Hello guys!

 

I've found myself in a bit of a conundrum with my insurance company, and desperately need some advice. Please bear with me as it's a pretty long story - I will try to explain it the best as I could.

 

Over 2 and a half months ago, on 12th May 2013, I was involved in a car accident, about two weeks after I purchased the car. I was fully insured with a comprehensive policy provided by Eco Insurance (Co-Operative) with my father as the policy holder and myself as an additional driver.

 

The insurance companies and the police concluded that the accident was my fault so I was viable for all damages. At the time, this was horrible news but at least all parties were insured and we thought all would be ok.

 

Rang up the insurance company to file the claim, they decided the car is to be written off and collected it within a couple of days, and everything seemed to be running smoothly.

 

Two days later we received from Eco Insurance asking us to explain why we declared my father as the registered keeper of the vehicle, when in fact the car was under my name. We responded immediately and explained the situation as follows: The 'new owner' part of the V5 document was filled out by the seller of the vehicle, who mistakenly entered my details for new owner, as I was the one handing over the cash to him. Also, the insurance policy documents and the new log book arrived after the accident took place, so we were unaware of these discrepancies. After we responded to this concern, the issue was never raised until 2 months after.

 

After this, we spoke to the insurance company on several occasions to ensure that the claim is moving forward normally, and whether they needed any additional information. On two separate occasions when speaking to the claims department, we were reassured that everything was fine and that the value of the car will be paid out to us within a week, providing that we send evidence of financial interest in the cars (i.e. bank statement and sales contract). We reacted immediately and sent the required evidence on the next day. This was on the 14th July.

 

Four days later, on the 18th July, we received the most disturbing letter yet. "In view of your failure to correctly respond to the question/assumption regarding registered keeper of the Seat Ibiza, we must treat this insurance as void from the inception date of 30th April 2013." So in essence, the entire situation is now being treated as me being uninsured and I've become viable for all 3rd party claims (including a claim injury filed by my best friend, who was a passenger in my car and got injured).

 

I feel that this decision made by the insurer is completely unjustified, and unethical to say the least. We responded to all their queries, provided all the information they required, paid all monthly instalments diligently, cooperated with all their instructions, and now they're clinging on to the most pathetic reason as an excuse to cancel the policy and refuse liability. Simply a small discrepancy/technicality which wasn't even intentional.

 

For a whole week we were on the phone to Eco Insurance, trying to resolve this but all we got from the other end were arrogant customer service advisors (and supervisors), barking quotes from their terms and conditions, with absolutely no desire to help. They just wanted to get rid of us, even if the manner they did it in was completely unwarranted and immoral. We tried to rationalise with them and explain that who the car is registered to had absolutely no impact on the insurance nor the claim but it is very difficult to reason with people just plain simply do not care. We are literally being bullied into accepting liability for something that the insurer should be responsible for, and whatever we say to them is being rejected.

 

We have no idea what to do. We don't have the financial means to be able to afford a solicitor to handle the case, and we sure as hell can't afford to pay for the 3rd party claims, which I imagine would be in the thousands.

 

If anyone has previous experience with similar situations, and/or is competent with the laws surrounding motor insurance providers, I would really really appreciate some advise - this is our last hope!

 

I appreciate you reading the entire description, and I wish you a good day!

 

Many thanks in advance!

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

The forum guys should be along later or tomorrow, please bear with us until they're able to get here. I'm sure they can advise you.

 

My best, HB

[ssett]

Sounds like they are trying to avoid the policy for stupid reasons to me which they shouldn't do. I rang my car insurance policy for some routine thing and asked did it matter who was the registered keeper and they said it didn't matter who was.

IMO I think they are more bothered about who it is the main driver because that does make a difference.

You can take this to the Financial Ombudsman Service but you need to put in a "NOTICE OF COMPLAINT" in writing (I have found they try to ignore things like that and if it is in big bold letters there is no mistake!) to the company. You then have to wait 8 weeks for them to reply. After that 8 weeks, put in a formal complaint with the Ombudsman. But you don't have to wait 8 weeks to call the FOS, ring them up and explain, they can complain for you too. But if you put your complaint in writing to the company the date of the letter is the date the clock starts ticking. Take your time with the complaint document and make it clear

It won't cost you any money to go to the FOS but they have a limit of £100K for settlements AFAIK

There are rules that they can't avoid a policy for petty reasons, I haven't got the full wording but sure someone else can help

[jordan30]

Guys, honestly, thank you so much. This is the most constructive and optimistic bit of information I have heard/read all month!

 

Precisely - incredibly petty excuse to avoid honouring my claim . I already sent a similar email to the FOS, detailing the situation and asking for advice, but I shall also write a complaint letter directly to the insurer and hope for the best.

 

It's just unbelievable how they can treat their paying customers in this manner. Please spread the word and warn all your friends and relatives to avoid all dealings with this company at all costs! Bunch of corporate bullies!

 

Again, thank you for the information, I really appreciate it!

[ssett]

 

Precisely - incredibly petty excuse to avoid honouring my claim . I already sent a similar email to the FOS, detailing the situation and asking for advice, but I shall also write a complaint letter directly to the insurer and hope for the best.

Phone the FOS, I think they have been improving their service surprisingly, so worth a phone call so they can call the insurance company on your behalf so the insurance company is then very AWARE that you know your rights (even then the company will try every chance to wriggle out of it) but you have a paper trail to then go to court if you eventually have to. Documents are VITAL Do not phone the insurance company or talk to anyone on the phone from the insurance company, only in writing

Edited July 30, 2013 by honeybee13

[BazzaS]

Who was the main driver of the vehicle?.

 

Are you a 'young' person?. If they suspect that there was 'fronting' involved then the insurance may be invalidated.

 

'Fronting' is where a car is insured with a older driver as main driver, with the younger driver listed as an additional driver to keep the premium down, where the older driver isn't really the main driver.

 

I note that the V5 had your name placed on it, and you said "about two weeks after I purchased the car" ... if the insurers picked up on such details they may be looking at if this is a case of 'fronting'. Who used the car the most?.

 

If the insurance company believe this to be a case of 'fronting', how do you propose to reassure them that this isn't the case?.

[dacouc]

Who was the main driver of the vehicle?.

 

Are you a 'young' person?. If they suspect that there was 'fronting' involved then the insurance may be invalidated.

 

'Fronting' is where a car is insured with a older driver as main driver, with the younger driver listed as an additional driver to keep the premium down, where the older driver isn't really the main driver.

 

I note that the V5 had your name placed on it, and you said "about two weeks after I purchased the car" ... if the insurers picked up on such details they may be looking at if this is a case of 'fronting'. Who used the car the most?.

 

If the insurance company believe this to be a case of 'fronting', how do you propose to reassure them that this isn't the case?.

 

Some facts...The OP is the main user, he purchased the car with his own money and registered the car in his name by mistake.

 

The father also has another car.

[BazzaS]

Some facts...The OP is the main user, he purchased the car with his own money and registered the car in his name by mistake.

 

The father also has another car.

 

Dacouc .... Do you know the OP personally to be able to state these as 'facts'?

 

OP are these correct? Especially "does your father have another car, and is it insured in his name?"

[unclebulgaria67]

"two weeks after I purchased the car. I was fully insured with a comprehensive policy provided by Eco Insurance (Co-Operative) with my father as the policy holder and myself as an additional driver.

 

Two days later we received from Eco Insurance asking us to explain why we declared my father as the registered keeper of the vehicle, when in fact the car was under my name. We responded immediately and explained the situation as follows: The 'new owner' part of the V5 document was filled out by the seller of the vehicle, who mistakenly entered my details for new owner, as I was the one handing over the cash to him

 

 

Sorry, but unless you can come up with a very good reason why you had bought the car for your Dad and that you were not the main user of the car, you will have difficulty having your complaint upheld by the FOS.

 

Below is from DVLA which shows that you would have had to sign the V5 as well to confirm your details. You would have known that this was being completed to register yourself as the new registered keeper of the vehicle. I can only suggest that you contact DVLA to see whether you can correct the mistake about the registered keeper and that both you and Dad see a Solicitor to obtain statutory declarations about the ownership. The stat decs would be a legal swearing that you had bought the car for your Dad and that he was the correct legal owner of the car. You might not get anywhere with the FOS and may need to take this to court, where you and your Dad will need to provide evidence about ownership to a court. Given the amount of money involved with the claim by the third party, I don't think you have much choice but to see a Solicitor.

 

Used vehicles

 

The way a used vehicle is registered to you depends on whether it has a registration certificate - also known as a V5C.

Vehicle has a registration certificate (V5C)

 

The seller must:

 

• complete section 6 of the V5C (‘new keeper or new name/new address details’)
  
• sign the declaration in section 8 (you must do this too)
  
• fill in section 10 (‘new keeper supplement’) and give it to you - this section is also known as the V5C/2
  
• send the V5C to DVLA
  

[jordan30]

I will give FOS a call as soon as possible. And from past experience, writing a letter to this particular insurer has never triggered a response, they just seem to ignore them and often pretend they haven't even received them, even though we use recorder delivery.

 

I'm 27 years of age. Granted, it worked out cheaper for my father to be the policy holder as he has 6 years of NCB but the car was to be used equally by me and him.

 

My father does have another vehicle but it's a van he uses only for work, not SDP.

 

Again, thanks for your responses guys. It appears that we'll have to get in touch with a solicitors as it's all getting very complicated. I just hope they have monthly instalment plans..

[ssett]

A V5C is not a proof of ownership as they on the document itself

[unclebulgaria67]

A V5C is not a proof of ownership as they on the document itself

 

No it is not, but if the Insurers are being told that the car is not owned by the policyholder and the policyholder is not the registered keeper as shown on the V5C, then the Insurers can void the Insurance, as they were not given true information on the Insurance application. The OP has admitted that it was much cheaper to have the Insurance in his Dads name, due the NCD that he had.

 

When you apply for Insurance, if the registered keeper shown on the V5C is different to the owner of the car/policyholder, then this needs to be mentioned before the policy is purchased. Otherwise in the event of a claim, you may end up in a difficult position.

[dacouc]

Dacouc .... Do you know the OP personally to be able to state these as 'facts'?

 

OP are these correct? Especially "does your father have another car, and is it insured in his name?"

 

More information on another forum from OP, although the father's car now seems to be a van

[jordan30]

Guys, first of all, thank you for all the input. I really appreciate all your feedback.

 

So do you think there's any point in writing a complaint letter to the insurer? Seems they're pretty stubborn and their unwillingness to help is second to none. Perhaps write directly to the financial ombudsman?

 

I can see how the insurance company may interpret it as fronting (although it was never mentioned in any of their correspondence), but it wasn't our intention. The car was to be used by both of us equally but we wanted to utilise my father's NCB.

 

I think it's important to emphasise that we received the new log book and the policy documents AFTER the accident, so we were unaware of the fact that the car was registered under my name beforehand. We did not do this purposely, and fraud was not our intention.

 

unclebulgaria67 - good to see a fellow countryman on the forum. Thank you for contributing. It's important to mention that neither myself nor my father signed the 'new owner' part of the log book. The seller said he'd fill out all the details and take care of it on our behalf. Furthermore, I don't think there's any point in attempting to change ownership with DVLA as the car has already been written off and they have been made aware of that. They also sent as an acknowledgement letter to confirm it is no longer registered to us. What do you think?

 

I've sent a few emails to various solicitors I found online and we're waiting to hear back from them. But does anybody know any good ones that you have previous experience with? And preferably ones that don't charge an absolute fortune? And do you reckon a competent solicitor would be able to achieve any results, considering this complexity of this situation?

 

Thanks again guys, and I'm sorry that I take so long to respond but I'm unable to use the internet whilst at work so I try to deal with everything when I get home in the evening.

Edited July 24, 2013 by jordan30

[jordan30]

Just to add to this, I spoke to Citizens Advice Bureau this morning and they said they were unable to help after I explained the situation.

[honeybee13]

I've sent a few emails to various solicitors I found online and we're waiting to hear back from them. But does anybody know any good ones that you have previous experience with?

 

I'm sorry, it's against site rules to recommend lawyers. You can check the Law Society website that has a search facility to find lawyers in your area with motor as a speciality. You need to speak to them and decide who you feel you can work with.

 

HB

Edited July 30, 2013 by honeybee13

[unclebulgaria67]

You must register a formal dispute in writing with the Insurers stating that you have asked the FOS to intervene, but are also looking into this legally with Solicitors, with a view to starting litigation against them. Advise them of the situation with the car and that there was no intention of providing inaccurate details on the Insurance declaration.

 

Have a read of this link from the FOS, as it may help you.

 

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/46/46_non_disclosure_insurance.htm

 

PS. I don't come from Bulgaria. I am of the Wimbledon Common near London variety. Here is a Youtube vid of them from the time (1970's/80's) They were from childrens TV and produced some music for the programme.

 

[SamLovesWispa]

Hi,

 

I have experience with these kinds of indemnity issues as I work in claims for an insurer.

 

Your insurers have clearly lapsed your policy ab inito and are going to deal with the claim as RTA insurers, meaning they will pay out third party damage but you wont be able to claim for your own damage. From what you said it seems your insurance company believe you to be fronting, which is a reasonable assumption when the car is registered in your name.

 

Whilst most people are unaware that fronting is a form of insurance fraud and illegal, insurers are clamping down massively as the risk that was presented at inception was misrepresented and false information was provided (I am assuming here that you advised your insurance company that you were not the driver the majority of the time), so unless you can prove that you are not the main driver then their decision is absolutely correct and in line with the guidelines set down by the FCA (Financial Conduct Authority).

 

There are some things which your insurer must do however, in order to be able to recover their outlay from you (due to the fact they will have to pay any third party claims under the Road Traffic Act).

 

They must have sent you a reservation of rights letter, or something similar, to advise you that they were unable to confirm they would provide an indemnity - from what you say about your experiences calling the claims department this may not have been done.

They will ask you to sign a Consent & Indemnity form which allows them to deal with the third party claims and ultimately seek a recovery from you, however if you do not sign this they can deal by Assignment & Agreement and still seek the recovery from you.

 

In extreme cases they can actually bring litigation against you to recover the damages and get a CCJ in your name, however given that you are young and most likely impecunious this is unlikely and they would eventually abandon any pursual of their outlay.

 

I would advise that instructing solicitors would be a waste of your time and money as the insurers are well within their rights to do what they have, just let the claim roll on and co-operate with them and next time make sure you accurately communicate the main user of the vehicle even if it costs more.

 

Hope this has helped.

Edited July 30, 2013 by honeybee13

[unclebulgaria67]

Hi,

 

I have experience with these kinds of indemnity issues as I work in claims for an insurer.

 

 

Thanks for posting some useful info. The OP is adamant that they did not set out to deceive the Insurers by fronting and therefore they would be unwise to simply accept this as a mistake to the Insurers in the way that you suggest. If the OP can obtain some advice from a Solicitor, without incurring too much in the way of cost, it is worthwhile. At the moment, we have no idea what the overall value of the claim will be. Perhaps it is tens of thousands and if this is so, I doubt that the Insurers would not pursue it.

 

The OP appears to be from Bulgaria originally if I have understood their comment and they appear to not understood the DVLA reporting required when buying the car. The seller just appears to have completed the form, without the OP as buyer knowing that they would need to complete/sign the V5C to show who the new registered keeper would be. Then the accident happened before the V5C came back from DVLA.

Edited July 30, 2013 by honeybee13

[SamLovesWispa]

Thanks for posting some useful info. The OP is adamant that they did not set out to deceive the Insurers by fronting and therefore they would be unwise to simply accept this as a mistake to the Insurers in the way that you suggest. If the OP can obtain some advice from a Solicitor, without incurring too much in the way of cost, it is worthwhile. At the moment, we have no idea what the overall value of the claim will be. Perhaps it is tens of thousands and if this is so, I doubt that the Insurers would not pursue it.

 

The OP appears to be from Bulgaria originally if I have understood their comment and they appear to not understood the DVLA reporting required when buying the car. The seller just appears to have completed the form, without the OP as buyer knowing that they would need to complete/sign the V5C to show who the new registered keeper would be. Then the accident happened before the V5C came back from DVLA.

 

However the insurance company can not be held liable for that, it is the purchasers duty to ensure the details are accurate, as the insured (his father) was not the registered keeper he had no financial interest in the vehicle and as such has breached one of the principals of insurance, despite the fact that this may be an honest mistake there is no way to prove this and as such the insurance companies actions are perfectly justified.

 

I can tell you for definite, as I have closed multiple files with outlay in excess of £25,000, that insurers do not attempt to recover an outlay if there is little or no means of repayment by the party involved, in rare cases we do pursue however most people end up paying us back £20 a month for the rest of their life, the cost of administration and the life-cycle of the claim (which has to remain open the whole time) severely impacts the figures and the cost outweighs the benefit.

 

After all, if there is no money to take, they can't take it.

[dacouc]

Thanks for posting some useful info. The OP is adamant that they did not set out to deceive the Insurers by fronting and therefore they would be unwise to simply accept this as a mistake to the Insurers in the way that you suggest. If the OP can obtain some advice from a Solicitor, without incurring too much in the way of cost, it is worthwhile. At the moment, we have no idea what the overall value of the claim will be. Perhaps it is tens of thousands and if this is so, I doubt that the Insurers would not pursue it.

 

The OP appears to be from Bulgaria originally if I have understood their comment and they appear to not understood the DVLA reporting required when buying the car. The seller just appears to have completed the form, without the OP as buyer knowing that they would need to complete/sign the V5C to show who the new registered keeper would be. Then the accident happened before the V5C came back from DVLA.

 

From another forum from the same OP

 

"The money came out of my account for the most part, some of it was in cash and about 500 of it was a loan from my brother. The car was intended to be mine, but putting me down as the registered keeper was a genuine mistake."

 

"I paid for the car with my own funds, but ideally wanted to have it registered under my father's name, so he could be the policy holder as he had quite a few years of NCB which made it considerably cheaper.

 

In hindsight it was obviously a mistake, but due to the negligence of ourselves and the seller, the wrong keeper was recorder on the logbook. And we had no idea until after the accident because that's when the paperwork arrived (logbook and insurance policy)."

 

Bearing in mind the Insurers will almost certainly have access to any quotes the OP ran through in his own name rather than his dad which won't help his case

[unclebulgaria67]

From another forum from the same OP

 

"The money came out of my account for the most part, some of it was in cash and about 500 of it was a loan from my brother. The car was intended to be mine, but putting me down as the registered keeper was a genuine mistake."

 

"I paid for the car with my own funds, but ideally wanted to have it registered under my father's name, so he could be the policy holder as he had quite a few years of NCB which made it considerably cheaper.

 

In hindsight it was obviously a mistake, but due to the negligence of ourselves and the seller, the wrong keeper was recorder on the logbook. And we had no idea until after the accident because that's when the paperwork arrived (logbook and insurance policy)."

 

Bearing in mind the Insurers will almost certainly have access to any quotes the OP ran through in his own name rather than his dad which won't help his case

 

And you give people the benefit of the doubt. If the OP continues to manipulate their position while pursuing a complaint, they may end up in more trouble.

[raydetinu]

Is there not another problem!

The OP's father has another vehicle which I presume is registered and insured in his name, now if the insurance has a NCB discount used on that vehicle, you cant use the same NCB for another vehicle!

Surprised the insurers had not spotted that.

Also I presume the OP lives at the same address as the father.

Sounds like fronting to me! I also believe that as OP paid for the car, it was ok to be registered in his name and not even aware of the consequences it will cause, re the insurance.

Also would have made sense to put in OP name to get your own NCB going, usually get good deals on first policy ( 30% discount ) with more than 12 months driving experience.

Although insurers may pay out for TP claims they will almost certainly come after OP for that.

[SamLovesWispa]

From another forum from the same OP

 

"The money came out of my account for the most part, some of it was in cash and about 500 of it was a loan from my brother. The car was intended to be mine, but putting me down as the registered keeper was a genuine mistake."

 

"I paid for the car with my own funds, but ideally wanted to have it registered under my father's name, so he could be the policy holder as he had quite a few years of NCB which made it considerably cheaper.

 

In hindsight it was obviously a mistake, but due to the negligence of ourselves and the seller, the wrong keeper was recorder on the logbook. And we had no idea until after the accident because that's when the paperwork arrived (logbook and insurance policy)."

 

Bearing in mind the Insurers will almost certainly have access to any quotes the OP ran through in his own name rather than his dad which won't help his case

 

Quite evident that he was fronting in that case, in which case he has committed insurance fraud, meaning the insurers are well within their rights. Resolved I think?

[jordan30]

Thanks indeed to everyone for all the info. I cannot thank everybody individually but I'm very appreciative of everyone's contribution!

 

We'll write to the insurers and the ombudsman, hopefully that would accomplish something, but like most of you said, we are in the wrong so I'm not expecting miracles.

 

SamLovesWispa - thank you for your professional advice. We received the Consent & Indemnity letter on the morning after your post, so spot on!

 

Any mods on here who could remove the thread please, unless there's a delete button somewhere I've missed?