BDML / Capita insurance- *RESOLVED*

[seanamarts]

Need advise please on what I can do next with the issue I have with an insurance company, BDML which seems to have been taken over by Capita.

 

Quick run through:

 

I had house insurance with BDML in 2010/2011, for a year.

 

When renewal came about I cancelled this policy as I was moving.

 

Heard nothing from them, no sorry you are leaving or any acknowledgment for anything else.

 

Didnt think anything of it until I noticed in the May/June when I was sorting out my 6 monthly accounts that money had been taken from my bank account from BDML.

 

Immediately I contacted my bank and requested that they cancel this payment, I enquired why this had happened as this policy had been cancelled. They did check and said that no DD was renewed for this company and advised to contact them to have the money put back in my account.

 

Unfortunately at this time I became quite ill and had a short stay in hospital. Then sadly lost my mother later that year, which I hope people can understand, all thoughts about BDML were furthest from my mind.

 

However in the December of 2012 I received a debt letter with regards to a cancellation fee and admin cost's for cancelling the DD for this insurance. as BDML was not mentioned I had no idea what they were referring to. I contacted them, to be honest I cannot recollect what was said, but Capita who have now taken over stated that I said BDML had canceled. If I did say this then I must have been quite confused at what this was about. Again I hadnt long come out of hospital.

 

Any way I had heard nothing from them until two weeks ago asking me again to pay xx amount that I owed. Didnt say what it was for etc so this time I emailed them requesting the policy and other information.

They came back with a copy of a renewal letter from BDML !!??!! Certainly not what I requested.

 

It states on the renewal letter that If I had not contacted them in an allotted time scale, they would automatically renew my policy.

 

This is where the penny drops and I now know why this company had been taking out money from my account after I had contacted them to cancel.

 

I distinctively remember cancelling the policy when my year was up because they tried to persuade me to carry on with the policy for the new property and were quite forceful about it and I got a bit cross with them.

 

So basically they didnt cancel the policy as requested.

 

The email goes on and states that as a good will gesture they will take off the admin charges and all I have to pay is £42 for the cancellation fee, which is the rest of the years payments.

 

They took 5 months of £8.80 which they shouldnt of had.

 

I have emailed back to Capita explaining the above, however does any one know where I stand in all this? Should I pursue BDML for the unauthorised DD they took or have I to pay the 40 odd pounds cancellation fee.

 

I really dont know where I stand in this situation. I just dont want to pay out more money for a service I didnt get even after cancelling.

 

Thanks in advance guys

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Good morning,

 

This scenario is very common, insurance companies very commonly have the 'roll over' clause in their Ts & Cs unless the insurance is cancelled in writing before the renewal date they will use the banking details they hold to take payments from the persons account.

 

I would suggest that you make a formal complaint to the insurer, copy to Capita, also your bank I thing is culpable, having told you that no DD was renewed, indicates that they should have refused payment and informed you of the situation.

 

regards,

 

Brig.

[seanamarts]

Morning Brig

 

On the renewal letter it dosnt state that it had to be in writing, this is why I requested the contract as I dont have it any more. But will contact BDML and place a formal complaint today and see where it gets me. Im sure I sent them an email when I found out that they had taken out the extra money.

I will see if I have anymore paperwork with regards to this matter. But I dont hold out any hope. If I recall correctly when I spoke to my bank about this when I requested that they cancel any further payments, Im sure they said to contact them again if BDML didnt respond or pay up.

 

I will pop into my branch and have a chat with some one there.

 

Thanks Brig

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes a complaint in writing to BDML asking why they did not cancel the policy as requested from x date. Ask them to check their records, as a phone call was made to them to cancel the policy and they have not actioned the cancellation request. There should be a system record that your policy was accessed and they may even have a recording of the phone call.

 

Stick to your ground that a cancellation request was made to them and they failed to do this. They will backdate the cancellation and write off any amount currently shown as outstanding. There is no claim event during the period, so this is no big issue to them. They should refund the instalments collected after the cancellation date.

[seanamarts]

hmmm I cant find BDML.. looks like Capita have taken over:|

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

hmmm I cant find BDML.. looks like Capita have taken over:|

Very likely, the insurers like to shift these accounts off the books asap.

 

I checked with my nephew a senior NatWest Manager he says if the bank has stated that no renewed/updated DD was in place the DD

payment request should have been rejected and you should have been informed of this.

 

He also said the bank should make a refund and recall the payments from the insurer immediately, you should no be disadvantaged by this.

 

Brig.

[seanamarts]

Thanks for that Brig.

 

I have had a reply back from Capita and they have said they have no record of me cancelling the renewal, however if I can prove I made the call, which I cannot then they will back date the renewal and reimburse me what they took out. They also stated that if I can prove that I moved when I said I did then they would also pay me back what they had taken.

 

Fortunately I can prove I moved at the time I stated so will be sending that off in the morning via email.

 

As I explained in my email, why would I want to pay for an insurance for an address that I was no longer living at when I can ill afford to pay for something I am no longer getting any benefit from.

 

I do feel that they have requested my change of address as proof because they do not have the records dating that far back for phone calls because there would have been a record of the call as I know for sure it was cancelled.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Thanks for that Brig.

 

I have had a reply back from Capita and they have said they have no record of me cancelling the renewal, however if I can prove I made the call, which I cannot then they will back date the renewal and reimburse me what they took out. They also stated that if I can prove that I moved when I said I did then they would also pay me back what they had taken.

 

Fortunately I can prove I moved at the time I stated so will be sending that off in the morning via email.

 

As I explained in my email, why would I want to pay for an insurance for an address that I was no longer living at when I can ill afford to pay for something I am no longer getting any benefit from.

 

I do feel that they have requested my change of address as proof because they do not have the records dating that far back for phone calls because there would have been a record of the call as I know for sure it was cancelled.

I 'm damned sure that call would have been recorded!!

 

Underhand money grabbing is all this, send them the proof, they must prove you did not cancel, you do not have to prove you did!!

 

I do hope you are feeling better, seems ages since I saw you in hospital!!

[seanamarts]

Im getting there thanks Brig, Spent most of last year in hospital. but since moving I am slowly improving

[fkofilee]

Guys Im an ex BDML / Capita employee so i know them back to front!! If i can be any assistance let me know ^__^

[seanamarts]

would be interested to know how long they keep records of phone calls please

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

would be interested to know how long they keep records of phone calls please

 

The transcripts and or recordings of calls should form part of the customers permanent files I'm told so I am presuming the 6 year rule applies.

 

So happy to hear things are improving for you, please remember I'm not far away if I can do anything to help!!

 

Brig.

[seanamarts]

Thats interesting to know as I requested all information with regards to this issue and all they sent was a copy of the renewal letter.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Thats interesting to know as I requested all information with regards to this issue and all they sent was a copy of the renewal letter.

 

Emm, they really believe that customers know nothing, so will send only what they see fit.

[Peterbard]

Thats interesting to know as I requested all information with regards to this issue and all they sent was a copy of the renewal letter.

 

Did you send a formal SAR with the £10 fee? If you did, they have quite simply failed to comply with it. If you didn't, I wouldn't expect them to be providing telephone conversation records etc... without a formal SAR.

 

Also, was your original call cancelling the policy made from a landline or contracted mobile? If so, you should be able to access your account via the internet and hunt back through the calls.

[seanamarts]

Did you send a formal SAR with the £10 fee? If you did, they have quite simply failed to comply with it. If you didn't, I wouldn't expect them to be providing telephone conversation records etc... without a formal SAR.

 

Also, was your original call cancelling the policy made from a landline or contracted mobile? If so, you should be able to access your account via the internet and hunt back through the calls.

No I didnt send a SAR with a £10 fee. I wouldnt do this initially, simple because this was the first contact with Capita. If, however they didnt comply with a response with regards to my email and still demanded this payment, that I didnt owe, then I would of eventually requested more information via a SAR. At this stage there was no need to send one as they had requested proof of my move from the address at the time when a renewal was sent. This I have provided.

I am no longer with the phone company (landline) when making a the call to cancel the policy at the renewal stage and as this was over 2 years ago I have no way to retrieve the bills for that time. I would have to write to the phone company and request these and there would have been a charge.

 

By the way I ignored the first letter and when I got the second letter a few weeks later with a threat of taking further action I called them as I had no idea what this debt was for. They wouldnt tell me what the debt was for until I gave them my details, once I reluctantly gave these, I was asked when I was going to make payment even when I had asked what this debt was for they rudely demanded that this debt needed to be paid or further action would go ahead unless I made payment that day.

All they were prepared to tell me was that I had cancelled an insurance policy and I had to pay a cancellation fee. I told them that they were mistaken and that they needed to send more information with regards to this.

The conversation ended very abruptly after they demanded that I again pay for this debt, I told them to send more information or dont get in touch again as I wasnt going to make a payment or even set up a payment until I knew the full details of this so called debt.

That was December last year, Capita then sent a letter demanding payment a few weeks ago, again nothing to state what this debt was for. So I sent an email requesting more information on this so called debt and after the phone call I had with them in December, I wasnt going to make the same mistake in calling them again.

 

I received more information via an email then I had by phoning them and the email was quite polite and informative and I was able to explain the situation without being interrupted by a rude little twerp on the other end of the phone.

 

I would never advise people to call these DCA's for this very reason I have stated above. Recordings of phone calls can be mislaid, or deleted. So wouldnt waste £10 on something that may not exist.

As I have said if they hadnt of complied to my email, which they did, then I would have to go through that route, but there is no guarantee that you would get all the information any way.

 

Now that they have the information that they requested, I should get my money back that they owe me and this will be the end of it.

By emailing them I have started a paper trail. With a phone call all the proof I would of had would of been a record that a phone called was made, not what the call was about. By Writing or emailing you have all the information needed on paper/email.

 

For you to say that DCA's never actually send a second letter is totally wrong. They do and will keep sending them until you either make contact or they take the matter further.

[Peterbard]

No I didnt send a SAR with a £10 fee. I wouldnt do this initially, simple because this was the first contact with Capita. If, however they didnt comply with a response with regards to my email and still demanded this payment, that I didnt owe, then I would of eventually requested more information via a SAR. At this stage there was no need to send one as they had requested proof of my move from the address at the time when a renewal was sent. This I have provided.

I am no longer with the phone company (landline) when making a the call to cancel the policy at the renewal stage and as this was over 2 years ago I have no way to retrieve the bills for that time. I would have to write to the phone company and request these and there would have been a charge.

 

By the way I ignored the first letter and when I got the second letter a few weeks later with a threat of taking further action I called them as I had no idea what this debt was for. They wouldnt tell me what the debt was for until I gave them my details, once I reluctantly gave these, I was asked when I was going to make payment even when I had asked what this debt was for they rudely demanded that this debt needed to be paid or further action would go ahead unless I made payment that day.

All they were prepared to tell me was that I had cancelled an insurance policy and I had to pay a cancellation fee. I told them that they were mistaken and that they needed to send more information with regards to this.

The conversation ended very abruptly after they demanded that I again pay for this debt, I told them to send more information or dont get in touch again as I wasnt going to make a payment or even set up a payment until I knew the full details of this so called debt.

That was December last year, Capita then sent a letter demanding payment a few weeks ago, again nothing to state what this debt was for. So I sent an email requesting more information on this so called debt and after the phone call I had with them in December, I wasnt going to make the same mistake in calling them again.

 

I received more information via an email then I had by phoning them and the email was quite polite and informative and I was able to explain the situation without being interrupted by a rude little twerp on the other end of the phone.

 

I would never advise people to call these DCA's for this very reason I have stated above. Recordings of phone calls can be mislaid, or deleted. So wouldnt waste £10 on something that may not exist.

As I have said if they hadnt of complied to my email, which they did, then I would have to go through that route, but there is no guarantee that you would get all the information any way.

 

Now that they have the information that they requested, I should get my money back that they owe me and this will be the end of it.

By emailing them I have started a paper trail. With a phone call all the proof I would of had would of been a record that a phone called was made, not what the call was about. By Writing or emailing you have all the information needed on paper/email.

 

For you to say that DCA's never actually send a second letter is totally wrong. They do and will keep sending them until you either make contact or they take the matter further.

 

Where did I say that?

 

 

 

I would appreciate an answer to the above question please Seanamarts as I don't recall saying that anywhere. Indeed I think I was arguing quite strongly yesterday about making contact (yes, I stated about ignoring a first letter, but in FULL context it was about making contact with DCA's).

[ims21]

Post above edited.

 

Final warning....further attempts to disrupt or derail will result in moderation.

 

EDIT: and just to answer the question

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?397488-Dodgeball-and-Davyly-Discussion-on-DMPs-and-their-ideas-on-DCAs&p=4291987#post4291987

 

Post #42.

 

Now, back to topic

Edited July 20, 2013 by ims21

[ims21]

For the avoidance of doubt, this is the relevant quote from the link above. I leave members to make their own conclusion as to how they read it but it is not for further discussion on this thread.

 

DCA's always send a second letter and the second letter is often pretty threatening. If you are advising to ignore the first one why not advise to ignore the 2nd or 3rd etc.

 

Actually they don't. Far from in fact, and this is precisely why that is my advice.

 

davyly's response is the blue text

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

As ims21 has said back to topic.

 

seanamarts,

 

I have taken the liberty of putting the scenario to a friend and colleague who specialises in insurance problems and is involved in the review of automatic insurance renewals, on motor, buildings and home contents insurance policies and 'breakdown cover' schemes.

 

Being well aware of these problems she has said that given the pending FCA report on its findings on this early in 2104 at the present time the best approach is to make a Formal Complaint to the Insurer a.

at director/CEO level.

 

I was also suggested that the use of a debt collection agency to enforce payment of cancellation charges in this situation in totally wrong, we discussed also the reporting of such ''alleged'' debts (which is happening ) to CRAs and placing a default on an agreement that is in fact covered in your case by a one off upfront payment (if this has happened, worth a CRA check imo with Capita involved) is also manifestly unfair.

 

Brig,

[seanamarts]

Thanks for this Brig,

 

I dont think automatic renewals should be allowed. Sending just one reminder in the post is very insufficient. Post often gets lost and people are then stuck in another year of insurance that they may not want.

Including the fact that they are not informed otherwise if their premiums go up and people want to cancel because of this.

 

I truly believe that this is a ploy to get people to unwittingly sign up for another year with the company. Which is grossly unfair to the customer.

 

I honestly believe I did not receive a renewal letter, I say this because I canceled my policy before they state that they sent one through, plus I have searched through paperwork dating back to 2010 and cannot find this. I file paperwork away as soon as I get it and always write notes on them when calls have been made and payment has been sent etc.

 

My post had a habit of going walkabouts where I lived at the time and this is one of the many reasons why I needed to move. I lived in an converted house where every ones post was left in the main entrance. I used to find my post opened and just discarded on the floor in the main hallway. Im not suggesting that this is what happened but it is a possibility and insurance companies should take this into consideration that post goes missing when sending out just one renewal.

They could at least make a courtesy call to see if the customer wants the policy to go ahead.

 

This is a copy of the email they sent back;

 

Dear Ms ******

 

Thank you for your recent email the contents of which have been noted. Please accept my apologies for the delay in our response as we were awaiting copies of paperwork from BDML Insurance.

 

The policy in question was an Insurance policy for a household policy with BDML Insurance which started on the 6th February 2011 and was cancelled on the 6th June 2011 due to a direct debit payment being returned by your Bank as instruction cancelled. I have attached a copy of the renewal documents issued on the 14th January 2011 for your reference.

 

The policy was cancelled and as per terms of business for BDML Insurance and a cancellation fee of £45.00 was applied.

 

The original balance at the time of cancellation was £44.59 and letters were issued to the address we held on file.

 

I understand that you had moved from this address of which BDML Insurance wasn’t aware. There are notes on your file that indicate you called this office on the 5th December 2012 to advise that you did not owe this balance as it was BDML Insurance that cancelled your policy. This policy was however cancelled due to default and therefore a cancellation charge would still apply.

 

The balance currently stands at £72.27 due to further administration fees that have been added to the overdue balance as this has been outstanding since 6th June 2011. However as a goodwill gesture we would be prepared to reduce the debt to the original outstanding balance of £44.59 if payment is made before the 23rd July 2013. Payment can be made by card payment by calling 08701 628 259. Our office is open 8am to 8pm Monday to Thursday and 8am to 4.30pm on Fridays.

 

Yours sincerely

******* ******

Debt Recovery Team Leader

 

2nd rely after I replied stating that the policy was definitely canceled by phone due to the fact that I was moving in the February and basically saying why would I not cancel and pay for a policy I was not getting the benefit from.

Dear Ms ******,

 

Thank you for your further email.

 

All BDML Insurance policies auto renew and unfortunately there is no record of a call or letter being received before the renewal date of this policy. As policies auto renew there would not be a need for a new direct debit mandate to be authorised and therefore BDML collected payments as per the terms of business of the policy.

 

You would need to provide proof to BDML of either the call made to them to cancel the policy from renewal or proof that you moved out of the property they were insuring you for.

 

As BDML have acted within the terms and conditions of the policy the outstanding balance would remain due. If however you wish to make a complaint with regards to this matter please email complaints@bdml.co.uk who will investigate this matter further on your behalf.

 

If you are able to provide proof as stated above we can look at getting the policy backdated to the renewal date and a refund issued. BDML Insurance will not be able to action any refund without evidence that the policy was requested as cancelled and that they did not act upon your request.

 

Kind regards

******* ******

Debt Recovery Team Leader

 

Proof has been sent that I had moved in February 2011 in way of a CT statement and bills for the address that I moved too. Proof of a phone call being made would not prove that I had cancelled the policy unless they held a recording of that call, if they have then they would hear how I was rudely spoken to to try and bully me into taking out another policy with them, they would not of had a record of my new address as they had no reason to have it as I was cancelling due to moving.

The renewal letter that was sent, that I didnt receive is just a basic letter stating not to do anything if I wanted to carry on with the policy. If I had received this then I would have called them to state that I had already cancelled the policy.

 

I actually believe that the person I spoke to had not recorded the call that I made or made a record of this call being made because of their behaviour towards me and the fact that I put the phone down on them. They were p****ed that they couldnt get a sale out of me for a renewal or a new contract for the new address I was moving too.

[fkofilee]

I used to sell insurance for this company and that clause in the T&Cs about auto renewal always got me :/

BDML record every call and thats a fact....

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi seanamarts,

 

To go back to basics you have really don't have to prove anything to BDML/Capita or anyone else.

I cannot see reason or merit in the statement 'get the policy back dated and a refund made'??

 

The formal complaint is I think now the only course of action open.

 

Brig.

[Peterbard]

I'd agree with that Brig. Sadly it is commonplace for insurance companies to set DCA's onto 'debtors' who aren't really debtors - one can only assume that sadly many pay up for fear of further action.

[seanamarts]

Im going to wait to see if they are going to give me my money back after they have looked at the email that I returned, if they dont then I will start with the complaints.