Help with a Parking Ticket!

[sam1202]

I received a parking ticket dated 4 days after I sold my vehicle to a garage.

 

I have been going back and forth with the council involved about this matter and have applied to the DVLA for a letter stating the date I sold the car but am yet to hear back.

 

I have now received a letter with the TE9 witness form trying to take the matter further and am not sure what to do.

 

I acknowledged the NTO letter when I said I was not the owner so I can't say I never received it.

 

I am also not sure if my phone calls to them will count as "making representations" but if they do I have not received a rejection notice so could maybe fill in the TE9 on these grounds.

 

I am really not sure what to do and all the is even more annoying as I was not even involved in the incident and it was no longer my vehicle!

 

Any suggestions would be helpful.

 

Thanks,

Sam

[Caren]

I would write one letter to DVLA and one to the parking people at the council state date/who you sold the vehicle to.

 

I would then leave it at that.

 

I would not bother talking to the council on the phone, its a waste of time.

 

Then I would ignore any further correspondence you receive.

 

Its up to the council to argue it out with them.

 

You have formally disowned your responsibility in writing by informing DVLA and signing your letter.

 

If you have any dated receipt from the garage that would help if you enclose a copy with each letter.

[green_and_mean]

Did you reply to the NTO and state on it 'you were not the owner', if so what was the next letter you received?

[Caren]

No, I did not reply to the NTO.

You are not the owner,

 

I would put it back in the post and write on the envelope 'redirect to XXXX', the new owner's address!!

 

These parking notices are intended to make you feel intimidated

but as long as you act correctly, informatively via letter, not the phone, then there is absolutely nothing else for you to do or concern yourself with...you've done all you can.

 

Dont get too caught up in the business of trying to sort it all out,

they will not believe you afterall they don't care who pays the ticket.

And.....

when the garage sells the vehicle on, which they are banking on doing quickly,

they feel that this absolves them from their responsibility.

 

Let the council keep sending their correspondence,

ensure you keep a copy of any correspondence you write.

 

Any future post you receive from the council just forward it to the garage, let them have the stress and pressure,

and responsibility of dealing with it.

 

Perhaps others on this forum may have another perspective.

 

Good luck.

[Jamberson]

Caren, I'm sure you mean well but the advice you are giving is wrong. You do not understand how the process works - please don't give out advice when people have serious issues like bailiffs looming.

 

Sam - can you tell us whether you did respond properly to the NTO? You said you "acknowledged it" - was that in writing? What did you put? How did they reply?

 

(Phone calls by the way are not counted as representations - what matters is the correspondence that was exchanged in both directions.)

[Caren]

This is how I resolved a parking ticket that I received after I had sold my car.

 

This is based on my experience of what occurred and how I dealt with the matter.

 

Nothing I have said is incorrect just my own knowledge. As such writing letters with proof absolved me from the responsibility that was rightful the new owners. Suggesting this rather than phoning is definitely the right thing to do.

 

Sorry - but a thread is so that people can give not only their knowledge, but also their own views and experience, its not just for one person to comment on. The individual can then make an informed decision.

[Jamberson]

I appreciate that, but you have to realise that there comes a responsibility with posting on sites like this. For example, you said:

 

I would write one letter to DVLA and one to the parking people at the council state date/who you sold the vehicle to. I would then leave it at that... Then I would ignore any further correspondence you receive.

 

I don't suppose you realise what the consequences of that would be - but I do. Sam will end up hundreds of pounds in debt, having forfeited any realistic chance to resolve the matter, and will wake up one day to find his new car clamped or towed.

 

That's not what you want to happen, right? But that's what will flow from your advice. Please be responsible about it. I worked in the council parking system for several years and headed a department dealing with bailiff issues. There are many others on here who know a good deal about the system.

 

What Sam needs to do is establish whether he has grounds to file a statutory declaration, which is the purpose of my and G&M's questions. He needs to deal with it, not write a letter then ignore all further correspondence. That would be the worst thing he could do.

[Caren]

I dont suppose you realise your a scaremonger. Your too UP there on the wrong level. He does not OWN the vehicle. He SOLD the car and if he has proof of sale then I dont know where you are coming from with your bailiffs etc. HE Has no responsibility to the car.

 

You cant say if i sold you my house im still responsible for it during your ownership. How

 

He has no grounds to be involved and has helped the council by informing them in writing about who owns the vehicle and where they can obtain their parking ticket.

 

Again, I am expressing my experience, and I am relaying this on this forum and will continue to do so.

[Jamberson]

He is in debt to the council. Rightly or wrongly, he is in debt to them. That's what his documents are all about.

 

There is a process for enforcing payment of the debt which involves bailiffs being instructed, which is the next stage after receiving the TE9, which he said in post 1, he has received, and bailiffs are instructed as a matter of course.

 

Payment is about to be enforced through bailiffs - their usual policy is to locate his current car and clamp it, and lump on hundreds of pounds in charges. This has nothing to do with who owns the car on which the PCN was served. It is his debt, like it or not, and they can and will take his property to settle it.

 

He has one way of preventing this, and that is to file a formal challenge to the progression of the case, which involves applying for a statutory declaration through Northampton County Court. If successful, he will be back in the appeals route and can then submit evidence pertaining to ownership of the vehicle on the date of the contravention. If he does not do that, he will continue to be held liable for the debt.

 

This is the usual pattern. Whatever happened to you, I don't know, and one in a thousand manage to get off because they are lucky to find a reasonable person reads their correspondence. It is very rare.

 

Your advice to ignore council correspondence remains the worst advice you could give him.

[green_and_mean]

This is how I resolved a parking ticket that I received after I had sold my car.

 

This is based on my experience of what occurred and how I dealt with the matter.

 

Nothing I have said is incorrect just my own knowledge. As such writing letters with proof absolved me from the responsibility that was rightful the new owners. Suggesting this rather than phoning is definitely the right thing to do.

 

Sorry - but a thread is so that people can give not only their knowledge, but also their own views and experience, its not just for one person to comment on. The individual can then make an informed decision.

 

Maybe you would be willing to pay when someone follows your advice and the bailiffs arrive? The person who RECEIVES the notice to owner is liable for the penalty charge, that is the law. Sending it back, burning it, ringing the DVLA, praying, ignoring it or what ever other advice is offered up will not remove that liability. The NTO should be sent back with the details of date the vehicle was disposed off and to whom, the liability will then and only then be transferred to the new keeper!

[Caren]

I did not respond on the NTO. According to Sam he returned it to DVLA.

 

My comments are about the parking ticket. I will, and will always forward it back to sender, or if I have the address of the new owner of the vehicle forward it to them.

 

Back off and stop analysing and addressing me, or every single jot that say. You are both harassing and intimidating. Constantly pointing to what ever I said.in.every single little detail.....This is a FORUM and Sam, can take information and make his own informed decisions.

END

[green_and_mean]

I did not respond on the NTO. According to Sam he returned it to DVLA.

 

My comments are about the parking ticket. I will, and will always forward it back to sender, or if I have the address of the new owner of the vehicle forward it to them.

 

Back off and stop analysing and addressing me, or every single jot that say. You are both harassing and intimidating. Constantly pointing to what ever I said.in.every single little detail.....This is a FORUM and Sam, can take information and make his own informed decisions.

END

 

Yes its a forum upon which you posted duff advice which I have corrected, if you don't like being corrected don't post bad advice.......simples!!

 

ps You cannot return a NTO to the DVLA they do not issue them they are issued by the local authority.

[sam1202]

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies and the entertaining argument to read through...

 

All I have done is contact them via phone after receiving each letter I have not sent any correspondence. I have written a letter I intend to send stating that I was not the owner of the car and that evidence of this is on the way but wanted advice first. The matter should be solved as long as the DVLA respond to my request which there is no reason for them not to do but seeing as bailiffs could be looming and I have no idea how long the DVLA will take i am not sure what the best course of action is.

 

How would I apply for a statutory declaration if this is what I need to do? Which option of the witness statement would be the best?

 

Also I have evidence in the form of a bank statement with the date, garages name and the vehicle reg as a payment reference already but would this be sufficient for the time being?

Edited July 16, 2013 by sam1202

[sam1202]

Another thought - if I paid it would I get a refund once I have the necessary information from the DVLA? (and I realise i should probably direct that towards the issuing authority but hey)

[green_and_mean]

Statutory declaration of what? You received the NTO this gave you the option of replying that you were not the owner, if you didn't do this you cannot make a statutory declaration. You are not really helping you case by not providing any info such as dates or what letters you have replied. If you pay that's the case even more closed than it already seems now.

[sam1202]

I replied stating that I was not the owner by calling them but from what I have read above it seems that a phone call might not be sufficient.

 

The letters I have received were the standard NTO and then the Charge Certificate letter and I responded to the by phone a few days later (i do not have exact dates without calling them again and getting that information). This has not been helped by the letters going to my parents address rather than my own.

[green_and_mean]

You can only make a statutory declaration on the following grounds:

 

You did not receive the postal PCN or NTO in question; or

You made representations to the Council concerned but did not receive a Notice of rejection from that authority; or

You appealed to the adjudicator against the rejection by the enforcement authority of your representations but had no response to the appeal; or

The appeal had not been determined by the time the charge certificate was served, or it was determined in your favour; or

You had paid the penalty charge.

 

From what you have said you seem to have failed to follow the instructions on the notices you received and are now liable for the penalty. The only option would seem to be to write to the Parking manager and ask for some generosity since you didn't actually own the vehicle.

 

http://www.patas.gov.uk/tmaadjudicators/tmaparkingenforcement.htm

[Jamberson]

Yep, you did receive the NTO and did not appeal it (phone calls don't count). You don't have any formal route open to contest it.

[Jamberson]

I'm not harassing you, Caren. I patiently and reasonably took the time to explain to you how the system works, so that you can see for certain that your advice was duff.

 

I note in post 6 you say loftily, "a thread is so that people can give not only their knowledge, but also their own views and experience" - but when I do exactly that, you call it harassment.

[citizenB]

I was very tempted to unapprove posts made by Caren, however as the dubious advice given has been corrected, I think it can be left in.

[Jamberson]

This has not been helped by the letters going to my parents address rather than my own.

 

Do you mean to say that the NTO was not addressed to YOUR home? I missed that originally when I read your post.

 

That changes things. If that is the case, you could file a statutory declaration.

 

What were the last documents you received?

[green_and_mean]

Do you mean to say that the NTO was not addressed to YOUR home? I missed that originally when I read your post.

 

That changes things. If that is the case, you could file a statutory declaration.

 

What were the last documents you received?

 

 

On what grounds, the only grounds vaguely applicable is they didn't receive the documents but they obviously have or they would not know they had gone to the parents address which is presumably the address on the V5. The Council cannot be held at fault if the keeper puts the wrong address on the V5.

[Jamberson]

One should be served with an NTO and as a result, be provided 28 days to respond. Neither of these happened.

 

Logically he could have made representations before the CC was issued, as all parties will be aware, but I still think that the failure of the basic process is legitimate grounds to deny receipt. Literally, he took possession of the NTO at some point, but the gist of the clause is that it was served by the normal process, not belatedly forwarded to him through a third party.

[green_and_mean]

One should be served with an NTO and as a result, be provided 28 days to respond. Neither of these happened.

 

 

Because the address given to the DVLA was the parents, the NTO was served to the address provided by the keeper failing to collect their mail is not the fault of the local authority. Even if a witness statement is made its highly likely to be refused for the reason I've just highlighted.

[Jamberson]

The reason the address is wrong is only an issue if the application is out of time and the council use discretion on whether to accept it. If this one is filed in time, the reason for the wrong address is academic - in times are just accepted as I understand.