Ebay non paying bidder losses - Do I have a case to issue a claim !

[Guest oncemore]

Hi All - seeking advice from those in the know. Brief background, or as brief as i can be.

 

Sold my conservatory on ebay auction for £1300. Inthe following days the buyer arranged to come and look at logisitcs of taking it down. There were some mails and texts to say about timing, they were trying to pay a deposit of £300 but were having some isses, agreed they would pay when they came to visit. 10 days later they came to the house and for an hour and we discussed how to take it down, size of van needed for transport etc. The reason for saying all this is that this was not an impulse buy, bid on wrong item etc - they gave every indication of going through with it. After an hour they made an exscuse to go to their car and a few mins later drove off. I waited 30mins and texted them to see if they were coming back - no answer. Sent text to his wife and she said they needed to think about it then later got text to say sorry for wasting time but not going ahead.

I contacted several other bidders and as 10 days had past they had purchased other conservatories and so i could not sell to them either

 

I mailed the buyer and told them i intended to relist and that any difference i would treat as my loss as they had a contract with me to buy and i with them to sell and that due to their delays i could not go to other buyers and so i would hold them responsible for any difference

 

Re-sold conservatory for £485 so significantly less !!

 

We are having an extension built and so there is a time constraint on the sale and removal

 

I have mailed the buyer and told them if they pay me the deposit as agreed i will take no further action (they were clealry going to pay this amount and they would have lost this anyway), if they do not pay or do not reply i will go to the small claims court to recover the difference as a loss attribuatable to their actions

 

So my questions:

Did we have a contract in place either real or implied?

They delayed thier change of mind for 10 days so this lost me the option to go to other buyers in a timely way and in this 10 days they clearly indicated their intention to go ahead and to pay a deposit of £300 which i would have been able to retain - does this count for anything?

Can i go to court for the difference between what they had agreed to pay and the actual second selling price i.e. can i claim this as my LOSS as well as any other directly attribuatable costs?

 

I understnad i can only claim for my loss, no penalties etc when talking about breach of contract - got a lot of info on this when i was looking into clamping and car parking tickets !. My opinion is i had a contract to sell and they had one to buy for £1300, they clearly indicated over a number of days they would go ahead (i have every mail and text ...), i then had to resell due to time constraints and it went for less and so my loss is the difference - right?

 

So can i do this or am i just frustrated at people who go back on deals but its ok to do that, no problem? Would i get anywhere with this other than the satisfaction of making them think long and hard about not backing out on a deal and thinking its ok and that there are no consequences to such actions? there seems to be very little info about people who have done this despite all the statements on ebay about auction bids forming legal contracts ......

 

I hope thats clear but please ask questions if anything needs to be clarified

 

Any input welcome - the more qualified the better

Edited June 24, 2013 by oncemore

[citizenB]

Have you spoken to Ebay about this ?

[Guest oncemore]

I have been through the whole ebay process. I did second chance offers and spoke to the other bidders - some were very annoyed at having lost to people who do this kind of thing ! I opened a non paying bidder case to which the other people did not respond. As this was closed i fot my final value fee returned and so i relisted - so yes i have done everything. I even did an onliune chat with ebay and asked are auction bids the formation of a legally binding contract as it states all over thier site when you bid - it was like trying to get a straigh answer from a polititian !

 

So having been through all of that i relisted and it went for a lot less than last time and a lot less than a lot of the other bids in the first auction.

 

My question is can i claim breach of contract and can i claim the difference as my loss. given the current issues with non paying bidders on ebay you would think there would be loads if it were so clear but maybe not many are for such high values unless they are for cars/vans/motrobikes which are not covered in the same way on ebay in terms of binding bids

 

so looking for a legal egal to tell me yes there is a case, you need to show X, Y and Z

 

i really hope it not that i just have to be rolled over and its fine, no problem, everyone can do it and no, a deal is not a deal and your word counts for nothing - can you tell i am frustrated by this ........

[citizenB]

I am just going to have a peek at ebay to see if they mention that bidding is committing.

[citizenB]

Ok, this is what it says on Ebay..

 

 

 

A bid or purchase on eBay is considered a contract and you're obliged to purchase the item. However, if you feel that you have a legitimate reason for not buying the item, you can contact the seller and explain your situation. Many sellers are willing to work with you if you communicate with them openly and honestly.

 

 

So, it would seem that a bid is considered a contract.

[citizenB]

Buying behaviours we don't allow

 

Not paying for items

 

If you've placed a winning bid or clicked Buy it now in a listing, you've committed to purchasing that item, and entered a binding contract.

[citizenB]

I put the following into the search bar and several links were provided, all saying pretty much the same. To bid is to enter into a binding contract.

 

 

If someone bids and wins - is this a contract

[citizenB]

If you do consider taking legal action, can I suggest you collect the following information.

 

 

Go to the original listing and take a screen shot of the other bids so that you can prove that this particular ebayer had continued to bid and win.

 

Any messages between you and the other bidders where they have declined the 2nd offer facility because they had purchased other items.

 

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/buying-practices.html

 

Unwelcome and malicious buying: Bidding on or buying items with no intention of completing the transaction, or circumventing sellers' requirements for buyers is considered unwelcome and malicious.

 

[Guest oncemore]

That is what i understood and e-bay seems to have a strong opinion on this and the notice comes up when you bid - but has this been tested in a court (i read something about there also needing to be a payment made to make it binding) and is backing out after the auction ends a breach of contract and is the difference between that sale and the subsequent sale something that would be considered by the small claims court as a recoverable loss.

 

Would like a legal view on this as if there is a good chance i will go ahead with the whole letter and then summons process as i think this is simply not acceptable behaviour - these people were positive for 10 days and then did a runner with no reason given, did not even bother to treply to the non paying bidder case on ebay. Think they hope i will just go away - they are going to be disappointed !

[Guest oncemore]

I have an 18 page document with screen shots of the original listing, bid history, mails between us, info when we were organising deposit payment, screen print of the paypal invoice i sent them for the deposit, pictures of all of the texts we exchanged ..... There were 3 buyers who were very keen at a higher price. I am sure they will send me a mail to confirm they were bidding and went and brought another - will get that just in case it is needed

 

Just a note - this buyer only bid in the last few seconds, no other bids and jumped ahead of other who had been bidding and also i had phone calls with them to answer questions, one came to the house to look it over before going away and bidding .... it is clear there were other good bidders who were knocked out by this person at the last minute.

 

The wife said before the guys drove off from my house they made everything clear and they needed time to decide. I text her back and said the time for deciding was past and that bidding and winning ended the deciding time !! - i also asked if that was the case why after 30 mins did i text the guy and her to find out what was going on and were they coming back later !! since then their communication has been almost none other than confirming they do not want to go ahead !!

[citizenB]

I am going to move your thread to the legal issues section and see if we can attract some more attention

[Guest oncemore]

Thanks - would really like to know if there is a case to answer because i think this one is clear and a difference of £815 makes it worth the effort !

[citizenB]

Yes, it must be very frustrating indeed and there is a principle involved here.

[steampowered]

I would think there is a contract here. Claiming for breach of contract should not be difficult, though no doubt they may claim the conservatory was defective in some way.

 

If they defend the claim, I query whether you would recover the full difference. You were required to mitigate your loss by obtaining the best price possible. They may well ask why you only managed to get 485 for it given the previous bid of 1300.

[Guest oncemore]

I made every attempt to contact other bidders in the original sale but due to the time delay of the buyers they had found others and made purchases.

 

The details in the sale were very clear in temrs of sizes, there were several pictures to show size and shape, with others asking questions i updated the info on the sale so it was more complete, others who were interested asked questions, came to view. So i think the in formation on size etc was there or readily available. In the time from the close of the auction until they came to visit 10 days later they asked no questions regarding the size, condition or anything regarding the conservatory.

 

I sold the conservatory through the same process with the same details - i cannot control who buys as long as it is above the reserve (same as the first time) and i cannot now say "its not enough" and refuse to sell as we have a contract and a deal and so i would not go back on that. I do not see i could have done more regarding information, trying to sell to another bidder or achieving more through the same sales process?

[Guest oncemore]

Just an update:

 

Yesterday i sent a mail to the original buyer offering that they pay the agreed £300 deposit and i would not go further and gave them 7 days to respond. I got a mail back from the today saying they had got a non paying bidder strike (means almost nothing in reality) from e-bay, i got all my fees back and so they do not feel they have any further responsibility and have no intention of paying for something that would not fit etc and to not contact them again. There was no mention of my "loss" or any sign that they recognise what they did wa sin any way an issue ......

 

Come on legal wizards - do i go after them for my "loss" and on what grounds and with what evidence. Is it breach of contract, breach of promise .... something - or do i just let them go as its not an issue, there was never a contract despite everything e-bay puts on its site and this behaviour is ok and peopole do it all the time?

[steampowered]

Well its up to you. I imagine you would have a good breach of contract claim and could issue through moneyclaimonline. There is a court fee, and a further hearing fee if they defend.

 

Whether it is worth pursuing this is up to you. Even if you did win in small claims court there is no guarantee of payment, although the reality of having a CCJ on their credit record will likely encourage payment if you are awarded the money.