Please Help, got caught using my brother's 18+ Oyster card

[TH709394]

Hello,

 

I haven't received a letter from TfL yet, I just have been reading threads here and want to seek early advice before it arrives.

 

Here is what has happened,

 

I took the wrong oyster card when i left in a hurry after seeing my brother and I used a PAYG.

 

He thought he has lost it and didn't report right away.

It was my bad habit that I always don't check the monitor on my way in and way out as I only commute between work place and home Monday to Friday

and I work out the number of journeys I make in a week and therefore top up weekly.

 

As you all know it didn't take me that long to find out this card wasn't mine when I was doing the weekly top-up.

 

I told my brother that I had his card and he said I could keep it since he didn't use it as frequently as last year

and I just started my internship and he thought it could help me a bit since I was saving up for a qualification course.

 

I must admit that I had made a hugh mistake back then by continuing to use his card in the hope that I wouldn't get caught that easily until yesterday.

 

Detail of questions being asked:

- whose card it was, answered it was my brother's

- who bought the monthly passes over last 2 months, admitted it was me

- why used my brother's card, told him that our cards got mixed up and I thought it was mine

plus I didn't check the monitor on my way in and out and I agreed that I should have done so.

- when start using his card in April, answered I was unsure about the exact day.

 

I didn't tell him that I have been using it for more than 2 months.

 

All i was thinking back at the station was that he only got the evidence of last 2 months and I only answered to what he has got....

 

- Do I have another card to use, I told him that I have a ordinary adult one.

 

What is the purpose of asking this question?

 

I don't know if I have made my situation worse by doing so and I really worried sick, even more when thinking of the serious consequence

of having a criminal record for being a fare evader.

 

I can't afford to have a criminal record since I just started my career.

 

I feel so stupid and regret for my action and looking back I have made it through in an even worse financial situation. I certainly wouldn't do it again.

 

I understand I will be receiving a letter from Tfl soon and I know I can't do anything but to tell the truth and how sorry I truly am.

 

Is it a good idea to voluntarily disclose the actually start date of the misuse?

 

any specific advice on what to include to make them believe that this is only a one-off case will also be much appreciated.

 

Thank you very much.

[dx100uk]

honesty is sadly the best policy

 

this is going to be messy

 

 

they will be able to see the usage, for how long back I'm not sure

 

prob day one.

 

if they can see a pattern, then sadly you'll be done for the lot.

 

dx

 

dx

[Winner2512]

Hello,

Make enquiries and contact them asking for an out of court settlement and pay them the penalty fees before they send case to their lawyers for prosecution .

Also,it won't appear on your CRB except you have a previous criminal record which they are gonna check right there in court before deciding if they are gonna put it in your record .

If you can prove in court beyond every reasonable doubt that you used it in error you will e asked to pay a £110 fine only.

I have been caught in the past and by the grace of God it didn't appear on my CRB.

[TH709394]

Hello,

Make enquiries and contact them asking for an out of court settlement and pay them the penalty fees before they send case to their lawyers for prosecution .

Also,it won't appear on your CRB except you have a previous criminal record which they are gonna check right there in court before deciding if they are gonna put it in your record .

If you can prove in court beyond every reasonable doubt that you used it in error you will e asked to pay a £110 fine only.

I have been caught in the past and by the grace of God it didn't appear on my CRB.

 

Thanks winner2512, did u write your apology letter back then when u received the letter from TfL?

How long have you misused your card for? Did u mention that in ur letter?

[honeybee13]

Hello,

 

I haven't received a letter from TfL yet, I just have been reading threads here and want to seek early advice before it arrives.

 

Here is what has happened,

 

I took the wrong oyster card when i left in a hurry after seeing my brother and I used a PAYG.

 

He thought he has lost it and didn't report right away.

It was my bad habit that I always don't check the monitor on my way in and way out as I only commute between work place and home Monday to Friday

and I work out the number of journeys I make in a week and therefore top up weekly.

 

As you all know it didn't take me that long to find out this card wasn't mine when I was doing the weekly top-up.

 

I told my brother that I had his card and he said I could keep it since he didn't use it as frequently as last year

and I just started my internship and he thought it could help me a bit since I was saving up for a qualification course.

 

I must admit that I had made a hugh mistake back then by continuing to use his card in the hope that I wouldn't get caught that easily until yesterday.

 

Detail of questions being asked:

- whose card it was, answered it was my brother's

- who bought the monthly passes over last 2 months, admitted it was me

- why used my brother's card, told him that our cards got mixed up and I thought it was mine

plus I didn't check the monitor on my way in and out and I agreed that I should have done so.

- when start using his card in April, answered I was unsure about the exact day.

 

I didn't tell him that I have been using it for more than 2 months.

 

All i was thinking back at the station was that he only got the evidence of last 2 months and I only answered to what he has got....

 

- Do I have another card to use, I told him that I have a ordinary adult one.

 

What is the purpose of asking this question?

 

I don't know if I have made my situation worse by doing so and I really worried sick, even more when thinking of the serious consequence

of having a criminal record for being a fare evader.

 

I can't afford to have a criminal record since I just started my career.

 

I feel so stupid and regret for my action and looking back I have made it through in an even worse financial situation. I certainly wouldn't do it again.

 

I understand I will be receiving a letter from Tfl soon and I know I can't do anything but to tell the truth and how sorry I truly am.

 

Is it a good idea to voluntarily disclose the actually start date of the misuse?

 

any specific advice on what to include to make them believe that this is only a one-off case will also be much appreciated.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Hello there.

 

Well, you've had two different viewpoints now and I'm probably going to give you another one. You should bear in mind that dx, Winner and I are not from the transport industry, although it sounds as if Winner has had direct experience of a similar problem. It would be interesting to know what a couple of the rail guys think.

 

Would you mind clarifying why you were using your brother's pass please? Was it because of the student discount, for example? And are you over 18 yourself? It sounds as if you are if you have an adult card.

 

And how do you know they only have a 2 month record of your journeys?

 

You can't do anything until TfL write to you, which seems to take 6-8 weeks, sometimes longer if they're busy. Until they write, you won't have the reference number for your case and they won't be able to find the paperwork.

 

Then, as you say, you write and aplogise and see if they believe your story, with help from the guys here. I don't know what the rail guys would advise about admitting to more offences than TfL know about, hopefully they will tell you when they're able to get here.

 

Lastly, I'm not sure that claiming this is a one-off case is going to be a good way to go for you. My idea of one-off is one day, when you took the pass and used it by mistake. You seem to be talking about systematic use of a card you knew you shouldn't be using over 2 months plus. Again, I hope the rail guys will comment.

 

My best, HB

[TH709394]

Hello there.

 

Well, you've had two different viewpoints now and I'm probably going to give you another one. You should bear in mind that dx, Winner and I are not from the transport industry, although it sounds as if Winner has had direct experience of a similar problem. It would be interesting to know what a couple of the rail guys think.

 

Would you mind clarifying why you were using your brother's pass please? Was it because of the student discount, for example? And are you over 18 yourself? It sounds as if you are if you have an adult card.

 

And how do you know they only have a 2 month record of your journeys?

 

You can't do anything until TfL write to you, which seems to take 6-8 weeks, sometimes longer if they're busy. Until they write, you won't have the reference number for your case and they won't be able to find the paperwork.

 

Then, as you say, you write and aplogise and see if they believe your story, with help from the guys here. I don't know what the rail guys would advise about admitting to more offences than TfL know about, hopefully they will tell you when they're able to get here.

 

Lastly, I'm not sure that claiming this is a one-off case is going to be a good way to go for you. My idea of one-off is one day, when you took the pass and used it by mistake. You seem to be talking about systematic use of a card you knew you shouldn't be using over 2 months plus. Again, I hope the rail guys will comment.

 

My best, HB

 

 

HB, thanks for your reply.

 

Yes I am over 18 and been using a PAYG. The only reason why I kept using his card was because of the student discount, in my stupid mind that I could save a bit more towards my qualification course.

 

Regarding the journey record, I was referring to the 8 weeks travel history that the inspector initially showed me upon questioning. I don't know how far back the history can be seen.

 

I have also seen comments from another forum that the history is held for the past 8 weeks and anything prior to then will disappear from the database and leave only with some statistics, again, I have no idea what exactly these statistics are......

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

At what stage did the RPI produce the 8-week record please? I don't remember many people who post here being presented with a record of their journeys.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

no me neither

[TH709394]

Hello again.

 

At what stage did the RPI produce the 8-week record please? I don't remember many people who post here being presented with a record of their journeys.

 

HB

 

he asked one of the inspectors to go to the window and print it off right after he touched my card against the hand-held device.

 

he only showed me there were 2 monthly passes attached to this card. then he asked who bought those passes, i confessed it was me.

[honeybee13]

he asked one of the inspectors to go to the window and print it off right after he touched my card against the hand-held device.

 

he only showed me there were 2 monthly passes attached to this card. then he asked who bought those passes, i confessed it was me.

 

Thank you, I didn't know they could do that.

 

You need the rail guys to comment really, but I wonder if it's possible they've been watching you. There was a programme a while back about TfL and how much they can spot about an Oyster card in real time, and surveillance was also mentioned. What I don't know is if your case is serious enough to warrant that, of course.

 

HB

[Old-CodJA]

Normal, unregistered adult PAYG cards can be shared and correct me if I'm wrong, but this appears to be a registered student or other discounted card. If that is the case, unfortunately it seems that your responses when questioned will have provided good grounds for the inspector to report that:

 

I) You knew that you were not entitled to use the pass to obtain a the reduced fare

ii) You admitted verbally that you had avoided correct fares by undertaking the same fraudulent use of the pass over a period of a minimum of 8 weeks

iii) The print-out of activity on the Oyster over the past 8 weeks will show evidence that these discounted tickets had been purchased and used

 

This is likely to lead to issue of proceedings for prosecution.

 

Wait until you get a letter from TfL and come back here and tell us exactly what that letter says (do remove all details from which you might be identified.)

Edited June 18, 2013 by Old-CodJA

[TH709394]

Normal, unregistered adult PAYG cards can be shared and correct me if I'm wrong, but this appears to be a registered student or other discounted card. If that is the case, unfortunately it seems that your responses when questioned will have provided good grounds for the inspector to report that:

 

i), You knew that you were not entitled to use the pass to obtain a the reduced fare

ii) You admitted verbally that you had avoided correct fares by undertaking the same fraudulent use of the pass over a period of a minimum of 8 weeks

iii) The print-out of activity on the Oyster over the past 8 weeks will show evidence that these discounted tickets had been purchased and used

 

This is likely to lead to issue of proceedings for prosecution.

 

Wait until you get a letter from TfL and come back here and tell us exactly what that letter says (do remove all details from which you might be identified.)

 

OC, thanks for the reply.

 

I knew i shouldn't have used it and i wasn't aware of the seriousness of consequences - a possible criminal record...

 

is the usage prior to the past 8 weeks going to show in the database? I am worried that things will be even worse if i dont say it and they find out later themselves..

[BazzaS]

OC, thanks for the reply.

 

I knew i shouldn't have used it and i wasn't aware of the seriousness of consequences - a possible criminal record...

 

is the usage prior to the past 8 weeks going to show in the database? I am worried that things will be even worse if i dont say it and they find out later themselves..

 

You don't have to say unless they ask.

If they ask, or you have previously fibbed and they check : it will strengthen their resolve to prosecute, and help show you intended to avoid a fare.

 

I'd advise honesty, but only so far as what they ask : don't volunteer information that could make things worse for you unless asked, especially if you are planning on asking for an 'out-of-court' (administrative) settlement.

[TH709394]

You don't have to say unless they ask.

If they ask, or you have previously fibbed and they check : it will strengthen their resolve to prosecute, and help show you intended to avoid a fare.

 

I'd advise honesty, but only so far as what they ask : don't volunteer information that could make things worse for you unless asked, especially if you are planning on asking for an 'out-of-court' (administrative) settlement.

 

Thanks BazzaS for the reply, I am now really stressed and cant stop thinking about this.

 

when i write my letter, do i have to mention again when my card got mixed up with my brother's? the inspector only asked when i started using in April i answered i was unsure about the date. I am worried that if I stick with what i gave in the statement in this letter, it later will become an undeniable evidence that i lie about start date of the misuse if they check the history...... am i thinking too much or i simply place more emphasis on the apology part. I really cant sleep ((

[TH709394]

Just to let you all know that I have received a letter from TFL, please see below,

 

Dear xxx,

 

On (date) at (time) an incident took place at xxx station whereby you were spoken to by a member of London Underground staff regarding your train journey and the associated fare.

 

The facts of this incidents are now being considered and I must advise you that legal proceedings may be initiated against you regarding this matter in accordance with the London Underground prosecution policy.

 

If you have any comments to make regarding this incident please write them on the reverse side of this letter and complete the information panel below, returning the whole letter, within 10 days.

 

You do not have to reply to this letter but it may harm your defence if you do not mention something which you may later rely on in court. Anything that you do provide in writing may be used in evidence.

 

Failure to respond to this letter may result in the matter being progressed by the London Underground Prosecutions Department without further notification.

 

Yours sincerely,

(name of prosecutions manager)[/i]

 

is this the issue of proceedings for prosecution?

 

I am writing up the apology letter tonight, can anyone give an second eye on my letter later?

[dx100uk]

that's the std letter everyone gets

time for your grovelling letter

 

be honest

don't waffle

offer to pay all costs, losses & admin fees

to avoid a criminal record

 

dx

[TH709394]

that's the std letter everyone gets

time for your grovelling letter

 

be honest

don't waffle

offer to pay all costs, losses & admin fees

to avoid a criminal record

 

dx

 

Thanks dx.

 

I will be honest but how honest do I need to be? honest enough to tell them I have used the card that doesn't belong to me more than 8 weeks??

 

I am really unsure whether admitting more offences is a good idea or not.

 

Please help!

[dx100uk]

best await OJ to comment

that is what he has asked 'to post the letter'

 

its here now, await the advise.

 

you cannot be in better hands.

 

dx

[Old-CodJA]

Thanks dx.

 

I will be honest but how honest do I need to be? honest enough to tell them I have used the card that doesn't belong to me more than 8 weeks??

 

I am really unsure whether admitting more offences is a good idea or not.

 

Please help!

 

 

There is no need to tell them anything that they do not already know.

 

It's the job of FCC staff job to conduct the investigation, your role is to respond to their allegation/s.

 

Stick to just the allegation that they have written to you about, give your explanation, truthfully, but do not waffle about irrelevant matters.

 

Give a sincere apology and an undertaking never to travel without a valid ticket in future, offer to pay the unpaid fare as well as all of their reasonably incurred costs in dealing with the matter to date and ask if they will allow this matter to be closed without Court action.

 

They do not have to agree and may still decide to prosecute, but you lose absolutely nothing by trying and although it may be a costly lesson, you have a great deal to gain.

[TH709394]

There is no need to tell them anything that they do not already know.

 

It's the job of FCC staff job to conduct the investigation, your role is to respond to their allegation/s.

 

Stick to just the allegation that they have written to you about, give your explanation, truthfully, but do not waffle about irrelevant matters.

 

Give a sincere apology and an undertaking never to travel without a valid ticket in future, offer to pay the unpaid fare as well as all of their reasonably incurred costs in dealing with the matter to date and ask if they will allow this matter to be closed without Court action.

 

They do not have to agree and may still decide to prosecute, but you lose absolutely nothing by trying and although it may be a costly lesson, you have a great deal to gain.

 

 

Thanks OC. Can I print out the letter and attach it to the one I have got, or I have to write on the reverse side of the TfL letter?

[Old-CodJA]

Thanks OC. Can I print out the letter and attach it to the one I have got, or I have to write on the reverse side of the TfL letter?

 

 

Print-out, sign & date and send by first class post (preferably to be signed for)

[TH709394]

Print-out, sign & date and send by first class post (preferably to be signed for)

 

OC, could you have a look at my letter for me please if you dont mind? thank you

[honeybee13]

OC, could you have a look at my letter for me please if you dont mind? thank you

 

Hello there.

 

I suggest you remove any personal details and post the letter up here for the guys to look at.

 

We normally deal with things on the forum rather than privately.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

*********************************************************

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

try www.pdfescape.com TO BLANK STUFF,

*************************************************************

or

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or use www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

 

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice dd-mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

dx

[TH709394]

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