noomill060-v-Nationwide BCOBS

[noomill060]

Last November I went overdrawn on a Flex Account Plus.

 

(I hadn't asked for the upgrade, just got upgraded automatically after 18 months, couldn't be bothered telling them not to bother)

 

Phoned Nationwide CS, the lady I spoke to told me there were some charges to be applied and these would appear on the next statement- December 2012. Doh!

 

Without prompting from me, the lady then told me, that as a goodwill gesture, she would ensure that I wouldn't be charged after all, if brought the balance into the black the next day, which I did.

 

I phoned again the next day, to get them to confirm that the charges wouldn't be applied and the person I spoke to assured me once again that I hadn't imagined the previous evenings conversation and that no charges would be applied.

 

This time I recorded the conversation.

 

I checked December's statement and true to their word, no charges had been applied.

 

However, on January's statement there they were, but with no explanation as to where they came from...

 

Also, last week I drew £10 from the cash machine outside my branch, at the same time I got a mini statement from the same machine to check my balance. While I was reading it, the machine took my tenner back! The tenner was not recredited to my balance.

 

At least Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a mask.

 

I don't consider that I have been treated fairly and intend to sue for reimbursement for both the above using BCOBS.

Edited April 26, 2013 by noomill060

[Ford]

i think if money is not taken from a machine in time, it claws it back.

just make an official complaint first, see what comes from that? could go into branch see manager and get them to see whats on their system re the call re charges. if they have noted as you say then manager should be able to sort it out. otherwise (it seems not unknown for system notes to not accurately reflect calls), be minded to consider making a sar in time to include a copy of tel calls.

[noomill060]

Oh, I went in to complain about the tenner at the time. They gave me a form to fill out, which I did and have heard nothing since.

 

I did however get an offer of free travel insurance, which may or may not be connected!

 

I have a recording of my phone conversation with them. A SAR isn't worth it, the claim will only be £60 or so and Ive never had the SAR cost refunded.

 

If they retract money from ATMs, the least they could do is automatically recredit it to the account it came from, as other banks (RBS) do.

 

Simply keeping it for themselves is just theft pure and simple.

 

"Oh look, a tenner, we'll have that"

[Ford]

could try then going into branch, make sure see a manager, and get them to pull up everything on their system to check any notes, statements, etc on it partic re those tel cons, insist on seeing the notes whilst there, also reminding them of the form you filled out with no response, and that you have a recording of the tel con?

yes, it should be recredited if clawed back.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Ford

[dx100uk]

was the sucked £10 at your NW branch or just another cashmachine?

 

typically the sucked money can take 10-15 days to re-appear.

 

even onger if its not the branch machine.

 

a guy today

just got £20 back from 2009!

 

dx

[BankFodder]

Well I don't see any reason why you should go easy on them.

 

Well done on getting the recording. If you didn't have that you wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

 

I think that you should claim back the charges plus compensation - assuming that you don't want to bring a BCOBS action - although I wish you would because your chance if winning is better than 95% and we need people to start using BCOBS (only one person has so far - against Santander).

 

Do you want to complain about the unsolicited upgrade as well? Although as you have put the account to use since then, there could be some difficulty.

[Ford]

...........

 

I think that you should claim back the charges plus compensation - ....

 

ditto. i suggested going in branch/complaint re being reasonable to try and resolve before resorting to litigation first, as required.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Ford

[noomill060]

Oh yes, bankfodder, I can assure you that I will be using BCOBS. Its about time we gave them a run for our money with this weapon.

 

I may as well challenge the unsolicited upgrade while I'm at it. I specifically asked for a basic account without the danger of o/d charges as I've no need of overdraft facilities anyway, just a debit card.

 

The staff, I remember were very enthusiastic that I should take out a credit card as well.

 

After the rings I had been running round Sharkleycard over the last few years with the help of CAG, I thought to myself - "Poor innocent fools, I'm noomill, baby, are you really sure...?"

 

Anyway, I declined their kind offer of another instant debt card.

 

The ATM is the one outside the NW branch where my account is held

Edited April 26, 2013 by noomill060

[noomill060]

How about this?

 

The tenner has allegedly been refunded, though I have yet to see evidence.

 

 

 

30 April 2013

 

Re: A/c no: xxxxxxxxxxx

 

　

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Sir,

 

I write with reference to the above account concerning paid item fees of £60 and an unauthorised overdraft fee of £20 levied to this account.

 

I contacted your customer services in November 2012. You assured me that as a gesture of goodwill, these fees would not be levied.

 

The telephone call was recorded by myself, no doubt you also have a recording and screen notes made by customer services at the time.

 

Contrary to any goodwill gesture, these fees were in fact levied on 9 January 2013.

 

I acknowledge that two paid item fees of £15 each were refunded.

 

This leaves £50 which I was assured would not be levied and which I require to be refunded forthwith together with interest at the contractual rate. I also require removal of any negative data which you have processed to any third parties including CRAs.

 

You are under a statutory obligation to treat customers and communicate with them fairly.

 

I do not believe that this has occurred in this case and that you are in breach of your obligations to treat customers fairly as required under the Banking Conduct of Business (BCOBS) Regulations 2009which have been introduced by the FSA under the Financial Service and Markets Act 2000.

 

Accordingly, I must inform you that you must refund all charges and that you must engage with me meaningfully to resolve this dispute in order to avoid and further serious breaches.

 

I note that, purely due to the unlawful levying of the early charges, you forced my account into overdraft once more in April 2013 and no doubt you will levy further charges under this deception.

 

 

The subject of our dispute

 

When I made withdrawals you had two options. In the first instance, you were entitled to treat them as a request for an informal overdraft and to refuse my request, or alternatively, you were entitled to tear my request as a request for an informal overdraft and to accede to that request.

 

In the event you chose the later

 

 

　

 

I would point out to you that under BCOBS you have a statutory duty to treat me fairly and have regards to my interests. It is clear that by deciding to pursue the course of action which you did acted completely against my interests and completely in you own interests in order to maximise your opportunity to apply unfair charges against me in order to maximise your revenue stream. This is an illegal act due to it being contrary to your statutory duty under the Financial Service and Markets Act 2000.

 

Although the recent test case did not hold that un-arranged overdraft fees did not fall to be assessed for fairness by the OFT- and this is all that the test case held- there was no reference at all made by the Supreme Court to paid item fees which can only mean charges which have been levied to provide a revenue stream to the bank exceeding the cost to the bank of paying the item. In effect cross-subsidising so called “free banking! To other customers.

 

As referenced above, in contradiction of your “goodwill gesture”- for which I retain recorded evidence- you applied charges on 9 January 2013 and I understand that you are preparing to levy further charges in the near future. I object to these fees because it is your own charges levied against me in January which put me into overdraft in April. It is your charging scheme, it was designed by you, and it is intended to soley to provide a revenue stream for all parts of your personal account operation. Therefore your imposition of these charges on me cannot be said to be “unarranged” You have imposed these charges against me deliberately, in full knowledge of the state of my account and for your own purposes. It can never be said that the brief overdrafts on my account was in any way unauthorised or un-arranged.

 

I need hardly point out that any reasonable person would regard treating unauthorised borrowing charges as themselves unauthorised as inherently unfair. Furthermore there is no contractual provison in you terms and conditions which allows you to treat your own charges as unauthorised borrowing. This means that there is an ambiguity in you term s and conditions which you have decided to interpret in your own favour and against my interests.

 

This is a violation of your statutory obligation under BCOBS, which require you to treat customers fairly and have regard for their interests, in addition to your obligation to communicate fairly.

 

I remind you that I retain recorded evidence of your assurances that charges from November would not be applied.

 

　

 

I look forward to you positive response.

 

In the event that you give me no option but to resort to law, interest pursuant to the County Courts Act 1984 will be requested in addition to my court fee.

[noomill060]

Well, I suppose I'd better correct the typos, tidy it up and send that LBA to Nationwide's legal department...

[Ford]

The tenner has allegedly been refunded, though I have yet to see evidence.

 

did you go in branch and see what they had to say?

[noomill060]

Yes, they told me they don't have the authority to sort this out and I would need to contact the head office.

 

Which I will now do.

 

[Ford]

fair dos, at least you tried to resolve prior if your branch manager cant sort it out (they say can contact branch re complaints?), then no alternative?

[noomill060]

LBA now with Nationwide.

 

I rewrote the above to something of my own.

 

They pulled the same stroke in April- I went overdrawn by a few quid for a few days and got a letter from them telling me they were going to take £95 off me.

 

When I phoned up, they relented and told me I would just have to pay the interest (7 pence)

 

I brought up the earlier, unwarranted debit and they told me it would be refunded within 5 days.

 

It wasn't.

 

I will now give them the opportunity to have their day in Court if they wish.

 

I am claiming return of my money plus interest in restitution and also £20 monthly service fees for their unauthorised borrowing, as per the T&Cs...

 

Naturally I retain audio files of the conversations with their customer service agents.

[noomill060]

:whoo:Statement arrived today.

 

They have returned the £50 they borrowed from me without authorisation on 9 January.

 

Also the £95 they were going to charge me next month was debited and re-credited instantaneously.

 

SO- as it 'appens, charges were returned and waived at the first mention of BCOBS...goodness gracious!

 

Hows about that then, guys and gals...? warble warble

 

 

Now then- interest on their unauthorised borrowing and the contractual monthly £20 fees...

[dx100uk]

welldone

 

yes go for the fees

 

dx

[Ford]

nice one noomill, to be expected.

[noomill060]

NW phoned today- offered £75 F&F...

 

nope.

 

I smell blood.

 

Carpe jugulam.