Gross Misconduct

[Reece Junior]

Hi all

 

I am new to this so please be gentle. My name is Reece and I have a situation that would benefit from your input.

 

Just over 5 years ago I put in a bullying and harassment grievance against my manager and her two senior assistants. I was a nursing assistant for 5 years and had over 3 years of evidence as well as documented witnesses. I was moved to a temporary unit while the investigation was taking place. A year and a half later I dismissed for gross misconduct for holding a clients money in order to save him money by buying clothes from a legal well known online retailer with up to 70% savings. This was discussed with staff who agreed and the money I received could only be signed out by a qualified nurse who always needed to know what the money was for and account for it as they were the only ones with keys to the safe and had to sign for it. Everyone denied any knowledge and I was dismissed and my grievance disappeared. No police were called or mentioned.

 

I applied and got into university to become a registered nurse. I am in my 3rd semester in the same trust I was dismissed from but had no problems until recently when the Lady who dealt with (or rather didn't), my grievance called the unit with which I was on placement and told me to leave the site and not come back.

 

Placements are key to me passing my degree and getting my registration and I have worked through obstacles for over 8 years to get to study for the filed that I am s passionate about. I have also been working with vulnerable adults voluntarily for over 3 years and have not had any complaints or problems before or since my dismissal.

 

Am I entitled to study to become a nurse?

 

Could or would I be able to do my placements in another trust?

 

Do I have any options?

 

Any feedback (good or bad), would be greatly appreciated as all I want to do is educate myself further.

 

Kind regards

 

Reece

Edited April 22, 2013 by Reece Junior

[honeybee13]

Hello Reece and welcome to CAG.

 

I'll move your thread to the employment forum here, the guys should be able to help you. I'll leave a short term redirect on this forum for you to follow.

 

My best, HB

[Emmzzi]

Hello Reece,

 

I think you are going to have a problem, as your previous employer is going to be duty bound to divulge the reasons for your dismissal if you are going to be working with vulnerable adults. The advice is too late but I would have been inclined to insist the police be involved so you could clear your name. Your problem is going to be getting another job, especially if you are going to live in the same area.

 

What other options do you have?

[steampowered]

Is there anyone you can escalate this to in the hospital? Presumably this lady is not your line manager?

 

It doesn't sound right that this lady can just ring up your unit one day and order you to leave the premises.

[altobelli]

Is there anyone you can escalate this to in the hospital? Presumably this lady is not your line manager?

 

It doesn't sound right that this lady can just ring up your unit one day and order you to leave the premises.

 

I agree with the previous post. This sounds very odd - who is this lady and what is her position in the trust? Personally, I would ignore this phone call if she has no authority to tell you what to do.

[Reece Junior]

Hi

 

Thanks for your responses

 

The lady is head of HR who was the same person who was meant to handle my grievance (which disappeared).

 

I stated my nursing degree last year and 50% is placemen based under supervision of a mentor. I can't finish my degree without my placement so I am being held back. The question I have is, do I have any rights in regard to education as it appears unjust to not prevented from furthering myself which was one of my grievances in the first place

 

Kind regards

 

Reece

[Reece Junior]

Thanks HB

[Reece Junior]

Hello Reece,

 

I think you are going to have a problem, as your previous employer is going to be duty bound to divulge the reasons for your dismissal if you are going to be working with vulnerable adults. The advice is too late but I would have been inclined to insist the police be involved so you could clear your name. Your problem is going to be getting another job, especially if you are going to live in the same area.

 

What other options do you have?

 

HI

 

I agree with your comments and was given bad advice from my union rep at he time

 

Fortunately I have been working in the voluntary sector with the same client group for over 3 years and have excellent feedback from my first 2 placements which can aid me a little. But I can't b a nurse without passing my degree and getting my registration. To do that I need to complete placements. I am in a catch 22 situation and am unsure of my rights I any. Being held back was on of many points of my original grievance

 

Kind regards

 

Reece

[altobelli]

Hi

 

Thanks for your responses

 

The lady is head of HR who was the same person who was meant to handle my grievance (which disappeared).

 

I stated my nursing degree last year and 50% is placemen based under supervision of a mentor. I can't finish my degree without my placement so I am being held back. The question I have is, do I have any rights in regard to education as it appears unjust to not prevented from furthering myself which was one of my grievances in the first place

 

Kind regards

 

Reece

 

Hi there, yes, you certainly have the right to education and to seek out and apply for placements.

 

Do you know how this lady found out about you being on the placement, and whether your original application for the placement would have had to go through HR at the trust? Also, does this lady have any authority over you in your current role? Even if she does, I don't think she can tell you just to go home and not come back. I would continue the placement at the moment and see what happens. If she has been responsible for 'burying' a grievance you made in the past then she might have more to worry about than you.

[Emmzzi]

Hi

 

Thanks for your responses

 

The lady is head of HR who was the same person who was meant to handle my grievance (which disappeared).

 

I stated my nursing degree last year and 50% is placemen based under supervision of a mentor. I can't finish my degree without my placement so I am being held back. The question I have is, do I have any rights in regard to education as it appears unjust to not prevented from furthering myself which was one of my grievances in the first place

 

Kind regards

 

Reece

 

You cannot force a business which regards you as untrustworthy to take you on a placement, no.

 

What do your university/ college say about alternative placements?

[Reece Junior]

The manager of my current placement applied for my access to the systems in order to do my notes, The lady from HR then called. As far as I am aware she has no authority over me as my all my placements over the 3 years are unpaid.

I left quietly just to remain professional and not give the university any excuse to hold me back

 

Kind regards

 

Reece

[Emmzzi]

Again, what do your college/ university have to say about alternative placements?

 

Worrying about due "authority" I think will not get you far. Odds on if she doesn't have it she'll go and get it, same outcome but a lot more fuss made.

[altobelli]

If this person has no authority over you then ignore her. If she attempts to interfere with the placement make a complaint and inform her that you will consider raising a complaint with the CIPD (professional body for HR people) if she doesn't back off.

 

You have been given the placement on merit and you shouldn't be bullied out of it. Don't be bullied out of the placement by this person just to avoid a fuss - she's done this once before. Authority or not over you, she has no right just to phone up and tell you to leave. Don't get the University involved unless you find yourself in a situation where you need to find an alternative placement.

[Emmzzi]

I would agree with altobelli if you did not have a dismissal for theft from a vulnerable person on your file.

 

Ask your educator for guidance; probably not the first time they have encountered this.

[Emmzzi]

here are GMC guidelines for student doctors; not 100% applicable but this will give some background as to the concerns of the trust

 

http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/undergraduate/professional_behaviour.asp#1intro

[altobelli]

You don't have a dismissal for theft on your file though, the dismissal was for holding client money to allow the client to obtain a discount. And it shouldn't be on your file after all this time. The employer needs to be careful here - if they imply that you have carried out 'theft' in the way Emmzzi has suggested over this they could end up in all sorts of legal trouble. It isn't 'theft' in the generally understood meaning of the term.

 

I say ignore this HR lady for the moment. The reality at present is that you applied for and got your placement on merit. How much longer does your placement have to run?

[Emmzzi]

You don't have a dismissal for theft on your file though, the dismissal was for holding client money to allow the client to obtain a discount.

 

Fair point, not theft. Probably worth checking the exact wording though.

[steampowered]

What a rotten situation, I really hope you can resolve this. I think the key is to get on top of it with your university and the Trust ASAP - the longer this goes on the less likely you are to get the placement back. Regrettably I am not sure if you have any technical legal rights here unless you have a contract with the hospital.

 

The first thing I would do is get the university involved. They will have a relationship with the hospital and hopefully should have some clout. It is absolutely not in the interests of the university to have students getting kicked out half way through a placement for reasons which have nothing to do with the placement, so they should be looking into it.

 

I would also be contacting anyone senior you know at the hospital, especially your line manager and getting the Trust to put this in writing - a phone call is not enough. Go into work if necessary to find out exactly what has happened. I imagine you should have a right of appeal under the Trust's policies. Again, the university should be be able to help you work out what procedures the particular NHS Trust has in place.

 

If all else fails, perhaps write to the Chief Executive of the Trust? Sorry I don't have any better suggestions than that.

[Emmzzi]

I found the RCN guidelines for placements. This would also suggest the first port of call should be the higher education institute.

 

http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/78545/001815.pdf

[altobelli]

I found the RCN guidelines for placements. This would also suggest the first port of call should be the higher education institute.

 

http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/78545/001815.pdf

 

Some really good advice in here...

[Emmzzi]

especially the RCN counselling service, that looks like a good helpline to call also

[monkeychicken]

I would also look at Data Protection issues here - they cannot hold your information /use it in this manner. Is there any merit in looking into making a complaint to teh information commissioner.

Also worthwhile getting a subject access request in to find out what information they are holding about you

[Reece Junior]

Hi All

Thank you for your feedback

The university called me for in for a discussion, and the outcome that I can still attend university but the trust will not allow me to do my placements there. There are two other trusts under partnership with the university and they will have to go right to the top at director of the NH level to notify them of the situation. They will then notify the trust who disallowed me that they will seek permission from the partners for me to practice in theirs. If they agree then all is good, However if not then a fitness to practice procedure will have to take place as if I can't do my placement then can I be fit to practice.

Thank you all for your honest feedback, it is most valued and appreciated and I will notify you all of the outcome as soon as I know.

 

Kind regards

 

Reece

[Reece Junior]

Thank you

 

Update of meeting on next page

 

Kind regards

 

Reece

[Reece Junior]

Thank you

 

Outcome of meeting with uni on next page (I think, still trying o navigate pages)

 

Kind regards

 

Reece