Ill health retired

[Guest Another Spartacus]

Hi fellow caggers,

 

It looks like I could have been given duff advice by my union rep and shafted by management

 

I was ill health retired with lump sum although I am appealing for immediate pension.

 

At the only meeting that I had last year with the rep and regional manager I was told that I would have to accept the lump sum deal and then appeal for immediate pension at a later date.

 

I said that I really did not want the money hanging around in my bank which I was unable use and could the company keep it untill the appeal.

 

The whole charade has been strung out and I don't seem to be getting any further.

 

After taking some advice by someone in the know, it appears that in the terms of the ill health retirement agreement that that I could have carried on being employed till the appeal had been heard.

 

Having been paid lump sum (which I can't touch cos they may want it back if appeal is successful) I have been living on the basic ESA contribution rate and am suffering financial hardship as I am unable to clim income support cos there's too much in my bank.

 

It was never brought to my attention that I could have forgon the lump sum.

 

There are so many discrepencies in how I was dismissed that the union have admitted that the rep got it wrong.

 

Also it is clear that my former company have not conducted the procedure correctly either.

 

As such I feel that I have been miss represented.

 

What direction do I take now.

 

Should I contact my home insurance, fortunately I have legal protection on my policy.

 

Management and union have gone very quiet now.

 

Has anyone else been in this predicament

 

Lola xx

[Guest Another Spartacus]

Anyone

 

 

Surely this is wrongfull dismissal if the proper procedure has not been used.

 

Or am I just barking up the wrong tree

[postggj]

I am talking of myself now as a union branch official and a person who was ill health retired from the business.

 

Ill health retirement with lump sum is a scheme negotiated between the Trade Union and the business to compensate if that individual is no longer able to do the job he was employed to do.

 

The total package i received with PILON was just under a years wages tax free

 

At the time, you had to agree to the procedure, with the option to appeal at the time of signing the severance agreement

 

Without knowing your reasons for thinking it was wrongful dismissal, i cannot comment but these things take time and over a substantial period, and only on the recommendation of occupational Health will a decision be made

 

The business HR department will handle the financial aspect of any severance, and to be fair, they are normally spot on

 

Did you have an occupational health assessment

Did you appeal at the time of signing the discharge papers

Edited April 10, 2013 by squaddie

[becky2585]

When did you leave the business?

[Emmzzi]

It is usually the pension fund trustees, not the business, who make the decision on immediate pension or not

 

This is usually based on exoected retun to work date - in next few years, or never?

 

What was your condition; how long were you off for; what did the occ health report state as likely return to work date; could any adjustments be made to let you work and if so what; how big was the company?

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

My OH, pensions bore, has told me to ask whether the lump sum might for an income protection/permanent health/prolonged disability scheme rather than a pension scheme?

 

Sorry to introduce further complications, I hope it might help to explain things. Some employers call ill-health benefits pensions, if you see what I mean.

 

HB

[ericsbrother]

schemes vary a lot but generally speaking to get a pension you have to be permanenty incapable of performing your duties or in some case any job at all. some schemes look at a partial disability and pay a part pension that compensates for the loss of a well paid job when the only liklihood of work is at a lower salary. The lump sum payment normally comes about because you are unfit to work but not PERMANENTLY incapacitated so you are paid a severance pay that is designed to keep you until you recover and to avoid an Employment Tribunal.

 

This money can be reclaimed if you are successful in getting your ill-health retirement or decide to risk the courts. usually you keep the lump sum if it takes more than a year to sort out the pension as there are rules regarding "reasonable expectations".

 

 

Now, have you applied for ill health retirement ot your employer or to the pension scheme? If the latter the break in service may damage your finances but there are precedents so you have avenues for appeal. The pension trustees may not meet that often so you need to write to the pension provider and make a claim for the retirement pension if permanently incapacitated and they should do the rest.

 

If they dont agree with your state of health there are rules they will have to follow that allow you to appeal their decision and after taht you can go to the Pensions Ombudsman with a complaint.

drop me a PM with the details of your scheme and I will give you my thoughts, been there and done that.

Edited April 15, 2013 by citizenB
formatting

[honeybee13]

drop me a PM with the details of your scheme and I will give you my thoughts, been there and done that.

 

Hello both. Advice by PM is not on, that is not what CAG is for.

 

Another Spartacus, if you have further questions please post them without personal details, the forum guys should be able to answer them.

 

Please be very, very cautious about advice by PM, especially if it asks for payment.

 

HB

[steampowered]

Why do you think the lump sum would need to be repaid if your appeal is successful? If you are paid a lump sum by your employer, I would think this should be independent of any decision taken in relation to your pension by the trustees of the pension scheme.

[Emmzzi]

Steampowered the lump sum is paid by the pension scheme so is repayable.

[Guest Another Spartacus]

There have been some developements in the last couple of days.

 

Though I can't go into specifics or answer any pm's I will keep the cag posted.

 

Because my former employer is a huge organisation I fear there could be spies about so I am being careful.

 

Thankyou so much cag members for your help and advice so far.

[Guest Another Spartacus]

In response to Honeybee

 

There are two levels of ill health

 

Tier 1 is severence pay

 

Tier 2 is with immediate pension which is paid as though I would have continued in employment till I was 65.

 

Obviously tier 2 is most beneficial for my circumstances.

 

Neither include any insurance etc.

[Nystagmite]

Having been paid lump sum (which I can't touch cos they may want it back if appeal is successful) I have been living on the basic ESA contribution rate and am suffering financial hardship as I am unable to clim income support cos there's too much in my bank.

You wouldn't be able to claim IS unless you were a carer or lone parent. IS and ESA are the same amount.

[Guest Another Spartacus]

Thanks for being perdantic Nys

 

I meant income based benefits.

 

and I AM a carer with underlying carers entitlement

 

To be honest if you cant help me with any helpfull comments please don't bother

 

Thanks

[honeybee13]

Hello Another Spartacus.

 

I know you don't want advice by PM, but if you could let me know privately who your employer is or the relevant sector, I can ask OH. He needs to know if it's public or private scheme to get a grasp on what they've offered.

 

He's a bit too far down a beer bottle in front of the sport to ask tonight, but I expect he'll help tomorrow. If not, I'll find something to threaten him with...

 

I'll post the advice on this thread once I have something helpful for you.

 

HB

[Nystagmite]

Thanks for being perdantic Nys

 

I meant income based benefits.

 

and I AM a carer with underlying carers entitlement

 

To be honest if you cant help me with any helpfull comments please don't bother

 

Thanks

 

how rude

[citizenB]

You wouldn't be able to claim IS unless you were a carer or lone parent. IS and ESA are the same amount.

 

Thanks for being perdantic Nys

 

I meant income based benefits.

 

and I AM a carer with underlying carers entitlement

 

To be honest if you cant help me with any helpfull comments please don't bother

 

Thanks

 

how rude

 

I am sure that Nystagmite was simply pointing out a fact, for something that wasn't immediately obvious from your previous postings, AS.

 

It would be a shame to lose support over a misunderstanding. So, if you are both in agreement, I will unapprove those two posts that are not helpful !

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

Right, OH has looked at this.

 

Do you have scheme/s documentation? Things like the benefits booklet that should tell you what benefits are available for ill-health or loss of office and how that works, plus any other guides that tell you what benefits are available in what situations.

 

And the procedures to be followed when you apply.

 

And the appeals procedure.

 

He says he's sorry he can't give you an answer right away. The way he works is to find out what the rules are, see if they've been followed and then see what might have gone wrong. The devil is in the detail, as ever.

 

I hope that's possible for you, AS?

 

HB