PCN for Being in bus lane (Reading)

[Gizzard2013]

Hello there, I am new user here, I am seeking advises/helpful tips before I appeal to against PCN.

 

What happened:

On Saturday 23rd March 2013, at 19:01 (7:01pm), I was driving along Friar Street in Reading Town Centre to find restaurant place. I was taken into that route by Tom-tom Sat-nav (iPhone mobile version) to take me and 3 other passengers to that restaurant place in Friar Street from A33 northbound.

When I got to entrance area, I braked and saw a not very clearly signs post (on the left side) as it wasn’t lit at that time, tried to work out to understand what is that sign trying to say and it took me a while to understand (as I am Cerebral Palsy user and got mobility problems) at the middle of square block. I managed to get picture of sign (red circle with car at bottom and motorbike above) wordings like ‘7am – 11am & 4pm – 7pm’. I looked at my car clock, it stated 19:01, I looked at rear mirror, there was a car driving behind me and felt I couldn’t stop my car otherwise car would hit me at rear therefore I had to continue driving down this street. While I was at that area, there was a few vehicles around which made me feel uncomfortable driving and something wasn’t quite right.

 

Penalty Charge Notice Issued on 4th April 2013:

On Friday 5th April 2013, I received Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) from Reading Borough Council saying my vehicle was ‘being in a bus lane’ at 18:59.54 on 23/03/2013.

I felt that I wasn’t treat in correct ways by Reading Council and appeal to against this PCN due following points and by looking at photo/video evidences which supplied by Reading Council:

- I was fined by 6 seconds early before 7pm (Council CCTV system timestamp). Who have the correct time? Council or me?

- I even didn’t know that I was actually on the bus lane. Council placed incorrect signs displayed?

- Left signs post wasn’t lit at that time which making me very hard to understand. Right signs post was lit but it too far to read.

- Could not see ‘Bus Lane’ marker on the road in that time. On the photo, very clearly there was no ‘Bus Lane’ road marker and there was ‘Bus Stop’ road maker on the left hand side after traffic lights.

- Could not see ‘CCTV’ signs around in that time. Even I didn’t know that I was actually monitored in this area.

- Why my sat-nav Tom-tom didn’t detected this section as ‘bus lane’? It could be the following reasons (I will email to Tom-tom company to clarify):

Maybe Tom-tom map haven’t updated that section? or

Time of iPhone clock passed 7pm? or

Reading Council didn’t inform the Sat-nav people?

 

 

So, using these above information, is it worth for me to appeal this or not? as I felt I should do becuase there is no bus lane signs/road markers around that area?

 

Thanks in advance

Kindly regards

[green_and_mean]

What is the location of the offence on the PCN as a pedestrian precinct is NOT a bus lane.

[Gizzard2013]

PCN stated in place of Friar Street (East Bound).

[Ford]

What is the location of the offence on the PCN as a pedestrian precinct is NOT a bus lane.

 

 

have a look at googly st view, shows it all (if its up to date , prob not as just seen image date is 09!)

[Gizzard2013]

Here is street view of Friar Street:- (Images updated May 2012)

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]42941[/ATTACH]

[Ford]

are those the current restrictions (image date is 09)? there are also road markings?

[Ford]

thats weird! one image says may 12 (the one you show), yet move down a bit and it says 09! showing a different sign!! and there is bus there that then disappears so, yes ignore the 09 ones

[Ford]

both signs on either side look as if they have lighting

not sure whether there needs to be a sign re camera lane control, but there is a camera sign further back.

there is also 3 signs (non lit?) further back saying restrictions ahead

seems then if in there before 7, then liable? but, can always appeal, never know they might drop it.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Ford

[green_and_mean]

Ok apart from the time which is I consider sufficient grounds (6 seconds is taking the mick!) I think you are in the clear due to a major balls up by the Council.

 

http://www.reading-travelinfo.co.uk/media/90138/bl_tro_town_centre_3.pdf looks like the correct TRO

 

Definitions states 'bus lane' has the meaning as defined by the TSRGD reg 23 which says...

 

Bus lanes

 

23.(1) In the signs shown in the permitted variants of diagrams 877 and 878 in which the expression bus lane appears and in diagrams 962, 962.2, 963, 963.2, 964, 1048 and 1048.1, bus lane has the meaning given in paragraph (2).

(2) Bus lane in the signs referred to in paragraph (1) means a traffic lane reserved for

(a)motor vehicles constructed or adapted to carry more than 8 passengers (exclusive of the driver);

(b)local buses not so constructed or adapted; and

©pedal cycles and taxis where indicated on the sign shown in diagram 958 or 959 and pedal cycles where indicated on the sign shown in diagram 960, 962.2, 963.2 or 1048.1.

 

That basically means a bus lane is a road using the signs stated, however Reading use a sign diag 619 so should have defined a bus lane using the Transport Act sect 144 which defines a bus lane as ....

 

(5)And an area of road is or forms part of a bus lane if the order provides that it may be used—

(a)only by buses (or a particular description of bus), or

(b)only by buses (or a particular description of bus) and some other class or classes of vehicular traffic.

 

The TRO states in Part 2 no vehicle other than ....... may use the roads designated as a Bus lane in scedule 1 which includes Friar st.

 

Since according to their definition of a bus lane there is no marked bus lane in Friar st, contravention did not take place!

[Ford]

isn't it schedule 4 of that pdf that is applicable? ie not a 'bus lane' as such (there is an actual marked bus lane but westbound)

[Gizzard2013]

Thanks for information.

 

Here is photo of evidence (attached):-

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]42942[/ATTACH]

[green_and_mean]

isn't it schedule 4 of that pdf that is applicable? ie not a 'bus lane' as such

 

Sorry yes but the argument is still the same the TRO does not create a bus lane unless there are regular bus lane signs as required by the TSRGD

[Ford]

but see the other end signs, which clearly show is a bus lane westbound with the road markings. eastbound is not a 'bus lane', just vehicle restricted between those times.

but yes, the split second timing could poss be challenged

[Gizzard2013]

but see the other end signs, which clearly show is a bus lane westbound with the road markings. eastbound is not a 'bus lane', just vehicle restricted between those times.

 

Yes, correct! its just vehicle restricted between those times but council said I used the bus lane eastbound.

[green_and_mean]

but see the other end signs, which clearly show is a bus lane westbound with the road markings. eastbound is not a 'bus lane', just vehicle restricted between those times.

 

It is a bus lane as defined by the Transport Act 2000 as its a section of road that can only be used by buses but the TRO makes no mention of this definition in its current state.

[Ford]

i see what you you're getting at, that pdf para 6 mentions a designated 'bus lane' as specified in schedule 4. maybe the road signs there will be deemed sufficient, re the restriction, theres no time allowance the other end?

or maybe they issued the wrong notice!

Edited April 6, 2013 by Ford

[green_and_mean]

i see what you you're getting at, that pdf para 6 mentions a designated 'bus lane' as specified in schedule 4. maybe the road signs there are sufficient, theres no allowance the other end?

or maybe they issued the wrong notice!

 

Read my post again! If this was in London it would be a moving traffic offence as its not a bus lane as defined by the TSRGD, however these sort of bus lanes and gates can be enforced outside London (who do not do moving traffic) as bus lanes using the Transport Act definition of a bus lane (which I quoted above)

However they still need a traffic order. The traffic order defines a bus lane as a road signed with regular bus lane signs (blue square ones) it then goes on to say you cannot be in a 'bus lane' in schedule 4, since we have already been told a bus lane is as described in the TSRGD and NOT the Transport act 2000 there is no designated bus lane in Friar Street

[Ford]

no need to read again. as i said, 'i see what you're getting at.' noting para 6 re 'designated bus lane'

gizzard, why not appeal it then? see what they come up with?

Edited April 6, 2013 by Ford

[Gizzard2013]

no need to read again. as i said, 'i see what you're getting at.' noting para 6 re 'designated bus lane'

gizzard, why not appeal it, see what they come up with.

 

Very interesting, many thanks for your inputs. Yep, I will challenge with council and post outcomes on here. Thanks again.

[Meldrew]

Hi Giz,

 

What was the outcome? We're in an almost identical position, and it would be very useful to know how effective your argument was and how it turned out.

 

Cheers!