Coast claim for Possession - old Welcome secured loan - Disc'd once - now another N24/N11R - help **RESOLVED**

[surrey_36]

I would be grateful for any advice or if anyone can point me in the right direction.

 

I have a loan with Welcome finance, secured.

 

Lost my family busines of 20 years in 2009 and things have been a real struggle ever since and im certainly not out the woods.

 

All creditors have been kind and helpful apart from Welcome who have bullied me and really been nasty.

 

After a week of harrasment from them,

I folded and ended up on antidpressents.

 

Welcome told me i could not go bankrupt. (I now know different).

 

I got a copy of my loan agreement to find its almost completely unreadable,

I have been taking advice from moneysaingexpert which has been great (until last few days)

- gave me all the template letters to send with regards to a loan where the CCA is illegible.

 

I have sent these all to Welcome and they continue to send me these bad copies that you cant read the figures on.

 

Last week they posted me a reconstituted copy of the agreement

- with no signature, dates etc. Just the figures clearly.

(I dont have the agreement at all so I have no idea if these amounts are correct).

 

I went back to the site for further advice on this and it seems now that rather than people help the advisors are just saying why dont i just pay up,

dont run away from your debts etc - suggesting im looking at an easy way out.

 

Quite frankly I would love to wipe this debt

these people were the final straw when i was desperately trying to cling on

and which resulted in serious depression

and I dont want to have to deal with them again so yes i do want to wipe the debt if i can.

 

Im terrified of dealing with these people again.

 

I am being told now that a court ruling says that a reconstituted copy of an agreement is acceptable,

does anyone know did this court ruling happen recently?

 

Its just everyones advice seems to have all of a sudden changed from illegible loan agreement cant be enforced to now that it can.

 

Will a reconstituted copy stand up in court if Welcome take me to court.

 

Also on the reconstituted copy the figures show i borrowed 15k and that the total charge for credit is 29K..

Meaning the total amount payable is 44K.

 

This is horrendous obviously and i clearly did not check this before i signed the agreement otherwise i would not have signed.

I was young and foolish i guess.

 

Any advice on Illegible Loan agreement, Harassment (although it was all done by phone),

and unfair interest rates - anyone can give me i would be grateful.

 

I have scanned and attached

 

1. Bad copy they have posted me of the original agreement

2. Reconstituted copy received in the post recently

3. Statement of account

 

It looks as though an acceptance fee of £235.00 and a broker fee of £1500.00 has both been included in the original loan amount.

 

On the 'original' agreement (although bit difficult to read properly) it shows the broker fee on the right of the agreement,

on the recon copy the broker fee has gone but the total amount borrowed is not £15000 but £16500.

 

On the last page of the statement of account (which is the beginning of the agreement back in 2007) it shows;

 

first entry (14.2.07) - Loan Disbursement of £16735.00 (DEBIT)

second entry (14.2.07) - Fee Disbursement of £235.00 (CREDIT)

 

but then the total amount does not adjust accordingly with the credit. If you look at the statements that i have scanned and attached i hope you can see what i mean!

 

I have tried to google how to work out interest but i cannot work out if they have charged me interest on the acceptance fee or the broker fee

- if anyone can help here i would be really grateful

- i do not know what im doing here

- its complicated and the information on the agreements differs which i do not know is allowed either.

 

Also on the recon copy it does not mention that the loan is secured on the property.

Where it says 'secured on:______' - this section although completed with address on the 'original' is empty on the recon.

 

How can you trust a recon copy when the company is so untrustworthy.

 

Thank you for anyone that can help me!

 

this was Pre 2007, no i have not checked the calculations as I do not know how,

I can npost the agreement no problem i have a scanner, how do i post?

No it did not include PPI at least its not showing on the reconstituted copy anyway..

 

- the loan did not include PPI and the loan was taken out Feb 2007.

Figures are Amount of loan £15,000

Duration of agreement (minimum) 180 months

Monthly payment £235.00

Variable APR 19.50%

Total charge for credit £31,232.53

Interest charge £30,997.53

Rate of interest per annum : 19.10%

 

I have taken this info from the reconstituted copy that they have provided but this info seems to be different to that on the illegible agreement.

 

For starters on the illegible agreement there is a broker fee of £1500.00 - this is not shown on the recon copy.

 

Also the APR's are different and the total charge for credit is different.

 

my signature is on there

I will scan and upload the doc, do i just blot out my details from prying eyes?

 

- the agreement (the bad copy) is in the 1st post

 

- thank you again for your help

surrey36 all welcome docs .pdf

[surrey_36]

Hi silverfox

- that certainly all looks interesting.

they have obvioulsy wrongly sold PPI to an awful lot of people.

 

I dont even know if i have paid ppi

- it does not say it on the copy agreement

but i can see alot of threads saying sometimes it doesnt but then its included anyway.

 

I have found statement of account this afternoon which im going to scan and upload in a moment, im assuming the more info the better!

 

THAKNYOU for all your help

- the second thread sounds very similar to my situation

 

I have scanned and attached in post 1 everything

 

1. Bad copy they have posted me of the original agreement

2. Reconstitued copy received in the post recently

3. Statement of account

 

It looks as though an acceptance fee of £235.00 and a broker fee of £1500.00 has both been included in the oiriginal loan amount.

 

On the 'original' agreeement (although bit difficult to read properly) is shows the broker fee on the right of the agreement, on the recon copy the broker fee has gone but the total amount borrowed is not £15000 but £16500.

 

On the last page of the statement of account (which is the beginning of the agreeement back in 2007) it shows;

 

first entry (14.2.07) - Loan Disbursement of £16735.00 (DEBIT)

second entry (14.2.07) - Fee Disbursement of £235.00 (CREDIT)

 

but then the total amount does not adjust accordingly with the credit.

If you look at the statements that i have scanned and attached i hope you can see what i mean!

 

I have tried to google how to work out interest but i cannot work out if they have charged me interest on the acceptance fee or the broker fee

- if anyone can help here i would be really grateful

- i do not know what im doing here

- its complicated and the information on the agreements differs which i do not know is allowed either.

 

Also on the recon copy it does not mention that the loan is secured on the property.

Where it says 'secured on:______' - this section although completed with address on the 'original' is empty on the recon.

How can you trust a recon copy when the company is so untrustworthy.

 

Thank you for anyone that can help me!

Edited February 9, 2019 by dx100uk
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[surrey_36]

no problem... I dont mind im just grateful for your time..

 

No I have never made a SAR with them

 

It is going back some time and I had some serious problems when i took the loan out

and so its difficult to remeber some details but i dont recall taking out ppi with them

 

- i never took ppi out with any loan/credit card etc.

I dont recall a questionaire.

 

I did go through a broker yes,

i seem to recall it being 'yes' loans. I think!

 

I cannot remember if they explained about commision but im sure i would have noticed the broker fee at the time.

 

I have not spoken to them since last July

- everthing was in writing

- i had to as on the phone they were awful.

 

So all letters i have sent have yes been to head office (it was the local branch that i had trouble with - harrasment wise!)

they sent me a recon copy of T & C's shall i scan and upload?

 

thanks for your help.....

[surrey_36]

Hello Dadofholly,

the most recent communication i had from them was the reconstituted copy which came through at the end of jan.

 

Since last July I have sent several letters asking them for a legible copy of the agreement and they kept sending me this very bad copy.

 

Last letter i sent them (was a templated letter from another site) saying that the loan was unenforeable becuase the agreement was illegible.

 

Since that letter they have sent further bad copies and then most recent the reconstitutued copy but otherwise no contact from them at all. No phone calls either

[surrey_36]

I have read on some other posts that an agreement should show the total amount repayable i.e £47K

 

as far as you tell there is nothing wrong with the agreement, they do not appear to have charged interest on the fees?

 

I wonder where i should go from here - contact them or wait to hear from them!

 

I attempt to handle arrangements myself but not paid anything towards this one since july last year

- so no arrangement currently in place for this one!

[surrey_36]

im not sure i completely understand,

i have read through the information above and tried but im a bit lost.

 

Have followed the link and read through that section but not understanding.

 

I have sent off SAR request anyway, just in case it flags up something.

I will scan and upload when it comes through.

Thank you for your time and advice.

 

Just had a letter from Welcome saying they 'acknowledge my SAR request and are processing'

 

Hopefully have something through soon , was not expecting to hear back from them so quickly must admit,

it usually taken them a while to come back to me with the 'cca's'

 

I have received the SAR reply from WFS - its a pretty big pile of documents - what am I looking for?

 

Does anyone know

- is it the statement of price that i need to look at

- I have searched through lots of threads and trying to fathom out what info i need from this pile of docs,

im just not sure what im looking for in this lot!

 

I have scanned and uploaded the statement of price and added it to my docs pdf in the first post

 

If anyone is able to look and see if there is anything untoward i would be extremely grtaeful. I understand that occasionally Welcome have done something unlawful with arrangement fees. Is this the case with me?

 

Today I received a 'final Demand' from Lewis Debt Recovery (having not heard anything from Welcome (apart from the SAR request and copy agreements) from some time).

 

They have requested a payment of around £20k by the 17th May.

Needless to say i am panicking and terrified of ringng these people in the fear that the will treat me as welcome did with all sorts of threats and visits to come an take things away

- or me to the cash point to draw out anythng i have.

 

If any of you experts out there can help me with this i would be grateful.

I really dont want to pick up the phone.

 

I litterally am really panicking about doing that becuase what happened all the times before that i spoke to them.

They really were absolutely horrible, laughing at me on the phone when they put in me in tears and telling me tears would not pay the debt and to sort myself out in really a very nasty way.

 

I have spent hours reading through threads on here on welcome and one thing i noticed is something about the 14 day cooling off period.

I signed the agreeement on 8.2.07 and according to the statement of account the funds disbursement date was 14.02.07 - thats only 6 days.

Does that mean that they did something illegal by rushing the loan through?

 

from what i have been advised it is possible acceptance fees/broker fees that i am looking for being incorrect.

 

I have scanned the doc if anyone can help me i would be grateful.

 

I understand that Welcome often got these wrong and these charges could be unlawful and Im trying to find out if this is the case with me.

 

I have a final demand from Lewis Debt recovery today for £20k payable by tomorrow and so Im paniking like hell.

 

These guys scare the hell out of me as they put me in a very bad place before.

 

I just want to try and find out if i might have a case against welcome for this secured loan or the professional opionion

from someone on my best next step as in financial hardship on how to deal with the Lewis Debt Recovery company

 

- does anyone know are they actually welcome finance employees?

 

Thank you for any help I have already will continue to donate to this site

 

does anyone know what this situation mean for people with secured loans with welcome? I have not made any repayments for 7 months and surprisingly not been chased at all following some nasty telephone harassment from them early part of last year.

Edited February 9, 2019 by dx100uk
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[surrey_36]

thank you so much dx

Edited February 9, 2019 by dx100uk
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[surrey_36]

thanks Pru! Kind of you to send this message,

 

I wake up in the middle of the night worrying about this and at 8 months pregnant thats not a good thing!

 

I really appreciate your message doing best to stay strong and not let them get the better of me! (although have to say its not easy ..)

 

thanks again and best wished to you! :o)

[surrey_36]

Thank you CitizenB that is really great - thanks for your help

[surrey_36]

Hi Mr Z thank you i thinki

 

i have read some of your posts befre

- i have read through tons and tons of welcome stuff on here and found some really useful info.

 

the current situation is that since i started disputing the agreement,

which was originally illegibility around about a year ago,

i have not heard much from them, apart from copy agreements,

 

then recently i had the letter from lewis with the final demand,

 

which as the loan is secured -is worrying me yep.

 

No phone calls or any other communication at all (apart from the sar that they sent recorded delivery after my sar request.)

[surrey_36]

Hello MrZ & very very big thank you for your help and time.

I didnt know that Lewis were part of cattles but had read somewhere that they were the same company and so was worried by contacting them i would be faced by the same people/attitude - and so very relieved i did not contact them.

 

In answer to your question what do i want from the loan, well you may have gathered from previous posts im desperately trying to find something wrong wiht the loan which I was hoping would result in unenforceability - i have read through lots of other threads where mistakes were made ion their agreements which resulted in peoples agreements being illegal and was really hoping this would be the case with me.

 

I did a land registry search which i think cost around £20.00 to find out if the loan had a second charge and to my disspointment found that welcome are most definately on there.

 

I could offer a monthly payment albeit a small one - but i did this with them before and they told me i would lose my everything if i did not pay more and that the amount i offered would be acceptable only for a month or two.

 

I am really quite relieved to read the information you have given me, and it makes me angry to think of all the lies they told me before about being homeless in a matter of a few months if i didnt get up to date with payments. I almost feel that I would like to court to be able to tell the judge that they never made it clear to me that i would be repaying £52k rather than the £30k that it appears to be on the agreement and to tell the judge all the lies they told me, but then i guess without any proof of this - then none of this infor would do any good.

 

It is very very good to know that should this go to court that i would be likely to be able to agree an affordable repayment and not lose my home, what a relief that is to hear

 

you definately have not confused me but told me things i have been trawling the internet to find out so thank you and I hope i have answered your question enough to see what you think would be the best foot forward for me, Thanks again for all your help!!

Edited June 2, 2011 by citizenB
Just popped some spacing in to make reading easier :)

[surrey_36]

Hello MrZ and thanks again..

What do you know yesterday in the post came a yellow card - all it said on it was "Please telephone 0870 751 3020 - it is VERY IMPPORTANT" in EXTREMELY small print at the bottom is 'The Lewis Group. A very sneeky way of getting me to call them!! (which no way i did or will do) In addition to this i have also received (in a seperate envelope) a letter from Howard Cohen Solicitors - not heard from these people before. It states that i need to make payment of the outstanding balance within 7 days to avoid further action.

 

So reading your reply above you suggest i need to work out an affordable repayment figure and contact them, I guess i contact Howard Cohen and not Lewis or do you think i contact both. In your knowledge is it bascially a case of putting something in writing stating my hardship, providing income/expenditure and letting them know what i can afford. Do I mention anything about the lies they told me about taking my house (and suggesting they pick me up and taking me to the cash point to get all my money out, and telling me i could not go bankrupt) previously and how this scared me off from speaking to them do you think.

 

I dont suppose there is a template letter for offer of a repayment arrangement that you know of?

 

Things are tough at the moment and money incredibly tight, on arrangements with creditors and with baby due any day now, its difficult to work out how much i will be able to afford although it will proabbly be about £50 a month. Which id imagine - going on previous experience with them - they will probably laugh at. But the total amount i owe them is around £19k - in your exerprience would aloan company ever look at reducing the total amount repayable as a full and final. A t the moment i ahve no way of of offering a full and final but otherwise i will be paying this loan off for the rest of my life it would seem.

 

thnaks MrZ your advice has been really appreciated more than you could know thank you

[surrey_36]

hi MrZ

- I have done exactly as advised and done a basic offer letter which will be in the post to howard cohen and lewis recorded delivery shortly

- do feel relieved that this is in hand

- thanks to you and the time you have taken to give me this advice.

 

Will just wait to see what they come back and say and will be sure to keep you posted.

 

I have made a copies and well organised with everything filed.

 

In the meantime I can like you say feel little less stressed worrying about it and hope that new addition arrives soon! VERY BIG THANK YOU

[surrey_36]

Brilliant - thank you Mr Z !

[surrey_36]

Thank you for your support and help with this Pru

[surrey_36]

Hello Mr Z !

I have had a response from the Lewis group - they have said that to enable them to consider my offer of settlement (£50 p/w) they require details of my normal weekly/monthly expendtiure - toegether with documentary evidence of my income. Without this information by return of post, 'should we not hear from you', we shall have no alternative but to proceed further in this matter.

 

The problem I have with the whole income/expenditure thing is that since our family business went down the pan a couple of years ago

i have been struggling to scrape a living together by selling on ebay.

i have just paid myself what i can/when i can which often is barely enough.

 

The trouble is that some months i can pay myself more and some months are diabolical its a constant juggling game.

So my income expenditures are never accurant becuase i dont have a guarunteed income.

 

The fact of the matter is that if I was to give them my income expend for this year then i would have to do it on a month by month basis

and this would take me hours to document out

- together with the evidence they want to back it up!

 

I dont pay myself a lump sum - if i have sold a few items then i transfer across a couple of hundred quid and pay some bills with it.

As a result this way of trading has got me in a terrible mess with my personal tax and im waiting for a nasty bill to come through the door any day about that.

 

I wonder if you could give me your advice

- should i go back to them and bascially say what i have said above,

a genuine expenditure would probably highlight that i cannot afford the £50.00 i have offered.

OR should i say that they can accept it or take me to court.

 

In addition im due to have a baby any day (1 week overdue now!) and my expenses will obvioulsy get worse soon.

Although i dont want the stress of court and again worried about how i explain my income/expenditure to them

but quite keen to let the court know how welcome treated me and the lies they told me etc! I

 

know in a previous post you mentioned that you would be swayed towards letting them go the court route.

 

Another issue with this that worries me is that i have another loan that i took out for our family business before it went pop

- that my family are all clubbing together to pay

- i dont have to pay anything towards it.

 

Its another secured loan - so if Welcome knew about this they would want to know why this one is getting paid in full and they are only offred £50.00

- but the fact of the matter is that technically the loan is not mine and not been repaid by me

- but obvioulsy i appreciatge that this is not whats in writing!

 

Many many thanks fo ryour help and advice!!!!

[surrey_36]

Thank you Mr Z , Citizen and Ims for your advie for which i am as always very grateful.

 

I&E is so difficult for me to do as I dont have a guarunteed income, my income would be a 'guestimate'

and with summer holidays on the way income will be less for next couple of months as well.

some months i may be able to pay myself more sometimes its terrible

and i have to borrow from family to cover arrangements.

Its a juggling act but this makes making an I&E very difficult.

 

MrZ you mentioned in a previous post that I could look through the SAR for anything that might be incorrect

- i dont suppose you could let me know what sort of thing i should be looking for?

 

I think I would be happy to go back to Welcome and say i can only offer £50 p/month

and explain why supplying I&E is difficult for me and if this is not acceptable suggest they take me to court,

 

id just be interested to see what the court had to say about the whole thing

- in terms of the lies they told me, the bullying, the bad copy agreement,

the cooling off period being too short, t

he TAP not being shown on the agreememnt,

the recon copy of the agreement showing figures in different places to that of the original (I.e broker fee).

 

Do you think that maybe this is the route i should push them for?

[surrey_36]

:lol:well 15 months later and Ive finally had a chance to trawl through the SAR ! Wow babies really do take ALL your time!

I am 'welcomefused! with the infor that i have found which is basically this;

 

 

1 almost illegeable Credit Agreement says ‘Total amount ofcredit : £15,000.00’

 

1 Reconstituted copy of the agreementstates ‘Total amount of credit £16,500.00’

 

1 Secured Loan statement says ‘Amount ofcredit provided £16,735.00’

 

1 Statement of price states 'Amount of credit/cash advance £15,000.00'

 

I have located the amount actually receivedin my bank which was £15,094.25. Which is obviously none of the above figures.

 

Any advice? Thank you cag experts!

[surrey_36]

Hi dx, yes i am currently on a payment arrangement which im surprised they accepted of £10 a month

 

Any advice? Thank you

experts!

[surrey_36]

thansk dx i appreciate you looking at this - big thanks

 

I have sar'd welcome before so ive got piles of copy docs, what should i do next?

[surrey_36]

Hi DX!

 

just wondering if your helpers are around and if you might have an idea if this agreement is right?

 

cheers for your help

[surrey_36]

OK thanks for trying DX is there anything else i can do like contact the FOS or the ombudsman thatmight be able to help?

cheers!

Edited February 9, 2019 by dx100uk
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[surrey_36]

Hi dx, sorry for taking ages to reply have been busy with new baby!

 

im still paying welcome £15 per month , on an arrangement

so thats still the same if thats what you mean?

 

do you know if its right the amount received in bank is different to that on loan sheet?

[surrey_36]

thanks Mr Z, yes it was secured.

 

I did not ever modify or refinance this loan.

 

The dates appear to be the same.

 

The illegible copy had a bad version of my signature yes.

 

I only had this one loan with them but did have one other loan with another company

[surrey_36]

Thank you MrZ here are the copies;

 

it is Feb 2007, my previous post includes a scan of the agreements,

if you get chance to have a look would be really great

surrey36 all welcome april 2013.pdf

Edited February 9, 2019 by dx100uk
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