Coast claim for Possession - old Welcome secured loan - Disc'd once - now another N24/N11R - help **RESOLVED**

[MrZ]

Hi Surrey,

 

First of all dont let Welcome get you all worked up. They are very good at harassing people, especially when they think the person they are harassing will just take it all on.

 

I can assure you, once you stand up and fight back, they very quickly change their approach.

 

I too am dealing with Welcome.

 

I know exactly the feelings you are going through. I have done quite alot of research and have (with the help of other CAGers) been able to get myself on a firm footing against them.

 

I currently have a claim against them for many of the dodgey dealings in my loan agreement.

 

That being said, the most important thing for you to remember is that neither Welcome, Lewis Group

or any of the other clowns you may have to deal with have any power over you whatsoever.

 

As long as you know what to expect, know how to defend yourself,

and are sure that you are doing what you are able to do (financially) to settle the debt you have nothing to fear or worry over.

If...and only if..

.it ever gets to court, only a Judge can tell you what to pay.

 

You will find more often than not, a Judge will only require you to pay what you can afford, and this is often much less than Welcome would ever want to agree to.

 

I will help you with some letters or anything else I can to get you some breathing space.

 

I have read your thread from the beginning.

 

Can you tell me where things are at the moment?

 

Are you getting any phone calls?

 

Is it the final demand from Lewis that has you worried?

[MrZ]

OK. Well as you may know, Lewis are owned by Cattle's Group, as are Welcome.

So you are dealing with the same lot essentially.

They can demand until they are blue in the face.

 

There is a reason they haven't had you to court yet.

Your SAR may well tell you or give you clues as to what that reason is.

However before sending you on an expedition to look for clues

...in an ideal world,

what would you like to have happen with this loan?

 

Forget the unenforceable argument.

This is really only useful now as part of a defense.

It doesn't appear that you have had PPI or any of the other dodgey fees or charges added to the loan.

Thats very odd for a Welcome loan.

 

In your SAR have they included any paperwork for the legal charge?

If so was it properly executed?

Have you verified via the land registry that a charge actually exists?

 

I wont give you false hopes, but in my case my secured loan is not secured because Welcome have removed the charge in an admin error.

 

Is a monthly payment toward the loan an option?

Have you made an offer of a monthly payment?

 

Assuming you can afford to pay something,

this may be something to consider.

 

Meanwhile you should remember that Welcome can supply you with a recon copy in response to your CCA request.

The request is for information only.

 

In order to enforce through the court, they would need the legible original.

You have plenty of arguments there.

 

I think if you can determine what the desired end result is,

you can then get advice as to how to best get you the desired result.

 

Worst case scenario, if....and a big if, it ever went to court,

the court would ask for your income and expenditure,

and based on that, would make a determination as to how much should be paid monthly.

 

In another case I had a debt and offered to pay 150.00/month to the creditor to avoid court.

The creditor would not accept my offer. W

 

hen it finally got to court the Judge order my payment of 50.00/month.

 

The judge realised I was only offering as much as I was to appease the creditor.

The creditor wasn't happy to say the least, but thats tough!

 

At the end of the day, only you can know what you can afford to pay toward the debt.

 

If they want to waste their time and money to take you to court, then let them.

 

The court will see you as paying what you can afford, and see them as being unreasonable.

 

The court certainly wont allow them to take your home, especially if your Mortgage is all current and not at risk.

 

EDIT: I thought I should add that the above comments are not your only options.

I was trying to illustrate that even in a worst case scenario, you would never have to pay more than you can afford.

 

There may well be many other options open to you, but more information will be required in order to determine what those options might be.

 

I hope I havent confused it for you

Edited June 1, 2011 by MrZ

[MrZ]

I'm glad you are feeling better about things. You certainly shouldn't worry about being made homeless. Thats about as likely as polka dotted pigs flying over the frozen lakes of hell

 

You may well have reasons to argue the loan was not executed properly. However even if you had very good evidence of it, its not something you would want to initiate. Its unlikely to be successful and would probably be seen as debt avoidance.

 

Its important you do a realistic budget and work out what you can really afford to pay. Once you have done that, then you make an offer of repayment. Don't be bullied into offering more than you can afford. If what you can afford is for example 100.00 per month then offer that and not a penny more. Whatever you do just make sure that what you offer is what you can really afford. Once they accept a payment offer, should you miss payments or not keep to it, they will be much more likely to try to take you to court. Here is a link to a fee remissions form used by the court.

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex160a_web_1010.pdf

I give it to you for information only. One page 9 and 10 it shows you how the court goes about working out what your disposable income is. In the unlikely event you end up in court, you can work out how the court might determine what you can afford. Its not set in stone and the court would also consider any other debts or creditors you are paying.

 

Aside from doing this alone, you can contact citizens advice bureau or consumer credit counselling service. Either one would go over your finances with you and help you come up with a reasonable payment plan. Both are free services. If you wish you could also ask them to contact Welcome on your behalf. Of course you can do this all on your own as well. Also don't forget to ask them to freeze interest as well. They may agree to do it pending review in say 3 or six months, but they should be cooperative. Keep copies of all letters and anything you send them, send recorded delivery and keep proof of postage. If ever it ends up in court you will want to show your efforts and their unreasonable behaviour and attitude.

 

Meanwhile, once you have done that, you can begin to go through your SAR response. Anything you find that doesn't look right or any other anomalies you can post here in your thread. You may find something useful, you may not. Either way you will be back in control. Let the scream and jump and toss their toys out of the pram, its of no matter to you.

 

There is also a good budget worksheet in the template library that can help you work out your budget and payment plan.

 

If you need help just ask and I will be happy to help where I can or at least point you in the right direction.

[MrZ]

Hi Surrey,

 

Howard Cohen and Co are also part of the Cattle's group. At the moment at least it seems they are keen to keep everything "in house". Howard Cohen are known for taking court action very quickly. They hope they will get a default judgment. In other words if they take you to court they count on you not defending. However if they did start proceedings, I would certainly suggest you defend. You can cross that bridge if or when the time arises.

 

As far as your approach goes, you only need tell them that you are able to pay X per month. They can laugh all they want. You can write a very basic letter (its none of their business to know all your personal or private details). You tell them that you can afford to pay £xx per month commencing on whatever date by standing order. Don't do a direct debit as you have no control over this. Even if they decline the offer or say they want more, don't let them bully you. Stick to the amount you proposed and not a penny more. Then set up the payment and make the payment. Make it every month. If and when if ever gets to court, you will be seen as doing what you can afford, they will be seen as being uncooperative.

 

If they wont give you standing order details or refuse to take payment at the amount you offer, you will simply write them a letter and send it recorded delivery. Your letter will say something along the lines of "I am disappointed at your refusal to accept my payments of £x per month." This way you will have a written record of whats going on. Do not ring them and entertain them on the phone.

 

There are letter templates in the library. Take a look around there are a few that you could use but taking the bits that apply to you. I can also help you edit or amend a letter if you need help.

 

Personally I would send a copy of your letter to both Lewis and Cohen. They are all part of th same group, but by sending the letter to both, neither can deny knowledge or receipt. They may ask you for bank statements or an income and expenditure worksheet. You should know that you are NOT obliged to give them either one. In my opinion though, it doesn't hurt to give them an Income and Expenditure, especially if it will show that you are paying other debts or creditors. But be aware that if they see one creditor getting say 200.00/month and they are only getting 50/month they might give you a hard time. You can always send the letter without it and wait for them to ask. Then you can decide whether or not you wish to provide it.

 

As far as the lies and all the other things, you should not mention any of it. If and when they start court action, you can use those things as part of your defence. Until then, keep it under your hat. I say if and when thy take you to court. Don't be afraid of this. It cant hurt you to go to court. It will cost them, not you. If anything the court will make an official order of what you can afford to pay. And as I said it will be fair and what you can afford. The court wont bully you. I personally would almost invite them to take me to court. Understanding that until such time payments need to be made based on what can be afforded.

 

Chances are if you follow the above, that if they start proceedings, then once you file a defence, they will likely withdraw and accept your offer of payment. The important thing to keep in your mind is that you are the one in control. Even if they start proceedings, you will expect it and you still have options.

 

So to summarise:

Work out your budget

Draft a letter offering a payment amount

Send copies to both via recorded delivery

Make payment based on your offer whether they refuse or accept the offer

Write a followup letter confirming your offer and payments made accordingly

Keep notes/records of everything and wait to see what their next move is

Put them all, Welcome/Lewis/Cohen out of mind and then....

Relax and wait for the happy new addition to your family!!!

[MrZ]

No worries Surrey,

 

I am happy to help when I can. Dont stress at all and enjoy this time with your family.

 

 

 

Also I forgot to mention, there is a way to make payment without having to speak to Welcome staff, and you can make it for any amount you choose. Call the Welcome automated payment number here: http://www.wfs.co.uk/payment/payment.html. Just follow the prompts. Takes about 3 minutes.

Edited June 7, 2011 by MrZ

[MrZ]

You dont have to show them anything.

They can ask for it but its up to you as to what you decide to give.

 

Sometimes its recommended that you give an I&E at the request of the creditor, because this shows you are being reasonable and showing your grounds for asking a reduced payment.

 

There is another option to acheive the same result without having to give them I&E.

You can speak to your CAB, CCCS, or similar. T

 

hey can go over the details of your I&E and determine what you can afford/offer to pay to your creditors.

 

They will then send you the details in the post.

 

This becomes your basis for an offer.

 

You can write to the creditor and state that you have sought the advice of CCCS and they have determined that you can afford to pay xx.xx, if anything.

 

They may ask you for a copy of the report, it your choice what you give them.

 

This of course assumes you admit to owing the debt.

 

ims is right. The thing to bear in mind is its your choice what you give them. And dont be pressured into offering more than you can afford.

 

If you are unsure, speak to CAB or CCCS. Its free and takes less than 30 minutes if you have all your figures handy.

 

You may well find they tell you that you cant afford to pay more than £1 as a token.

They will advise of your options etc.

Take what they say with a grain of salt.

 

The idea is to get a neutral 3rd party opinion on what you can afford.

This would be seen as you trying to reach an agreement should they decide to take court action.

Either way you decide what you will pay.

 

There is also the option of writing back to say that you are disappointed they have rejected your offer.

No need to even respond to their request for more docs, then just make the payments that you can afford or some token payment.

Edited February 9, 2019 by dx100uk
merge

[MrZ]

If you will find it difficult to prepare an I&E on your own, call CCCS.

They do this everyday.

 

I suspect they will tell you, that since your ebay income is not regular or dependable, then it cant be included as part the budget. If anything,

they may use a conservative monthly average.

 

But even if you choose not to do that, you should make an offer that you feel comfortable that you can maintain,

and then stick to it. If £10 is more relaistic than £50, then that should be your offer. If they dont like it, they really only have 3 options.

1. Sell it on to someone else to collect,

2. Do nothing and accept your payments, or

3. Take you to court.

 

As far as the SAR, you are looking for things that "don't add up".

Essentially look at any charges they have applied.

Try to reference those against letters you received or phone calls made.

 

Look at copies of arrears letters if any.

Check the dates and amounts.

Look for things out of the ordinary.

It may be that there isnt much more than you already know.

or it may be that there are obvious anomalies.

 

Its likely that anything you find wont be of much use to you on its own merit,

but it may become very useful as part of the bigger picture in the event they take you to court and you have to defend.

 

I would concentrate on finalising your offer to repay,

and plans to make that payment.

 

And as time goes on and you have the luxury of free time

(I'm sure the baby will give you loads of free time), you can trawl through the SAR.

Edited June 30, 2011 by MrZ

[MrZ]

Did you ever have more than one loan?

Was it Secured?

Did you ever do a modification or refinance?

Are the dates the same on each agreement?

Do any have your signature?

[MrZ]

Ok, well I think I know what they have done.

 

Can you scan the docs as a PDF and upload them here?

 

Be sure to remove account numbers, and your personal info and signature.

 

BTW what was the date of the original agreement?