Been given points when offered a speed awareness course.

[Jamesstewart]

Hi all, hoping i may be able to get some help with my predicament, on December the 2nd i was caught doing 41mph in a 30mph limit by an officer with a radar gun at the side of the road, he stopped me and went through why he'd pulled me, i accepted i was in the wrong, i was then offered 3 points and a fine or a speed awareness course, i took the course and the officer took all my details filled out the correct form and told me i would receive all information in the post, well nothing came so i wasnt sure what would happen now but now 2 and a half months later i have received a fixed penalty notice for 3 points and a £60 fine which i think is a little unfair really, is this the normal procedure? or is something not right with this?

Im not very familiar with this side of motoring law so im hoping someone could point me in the right direction.

Thanks James.

[assisted blonde]

Officers at the roadside dont actually offer speed awareness courses they may say that you might be offered one but it isnt up to them. Not all areas offer the courses and it may be that you were caught in an area that dosent also not everyone is eligable for various reasons to do the course, until you recieve the offer in the post saying points or option to do the course you dont know if it will be offered.

[letsmakeamark]

I wouldn't kick a fuss up instead reply to the notice and fill in the bit where it says you want to attend court and defend it. Thing is you say anything to them now and your defense is buggered. Then just wait for the hearing and explain what happened when you were pulled over. Hopefully the person who pulled you will not be in court. More than likely when the prosecution hears of your problem the thing will be dropped. The other option is you can complain in your mitigating circumstances on the reverse of the notice and then start off a long winded complaints procedure.

[letsmakeamark]

Officers at the roadside dont actually offer speed awareness courses they may say that you might be offered one but it isn't up to them. Not all areas offer the courses and it may be that you were caught in an area that dosent also not everyone is eligable for various reasons to do the course, until you receive the offer in the post saying points or option to do the course you dont know if it will be offered.

 

This was probably done when i was reply with other post. If a police officer has said this regardless of where he was then he has prejudiced his case by offering you something to you as a bribe so that you admit your mistake.

[Jamesstewart]

Officers at the roadside dont actually offer speed awareness courses they may say that you might be offered one but it isnt up to them. Not all areas offer the courses and it may be that you were caught in an area that dosent also not everyone is eligable for various reasons to do the course, until you recieve the offer in the post saying points or option to do the course you dont know if it will be offered.

 

I was deifinately offered it at the roadside, its a different form they fill in for the awareness course/points. I was caught in Norfolk but its not where im from i was down there as i had to visit a RAF base in the area. I had three friends in the car who were all in earshot of mine and the officers conversation.

[letsmakeamark]

I was deifinately offered it at the roadside, its a different form they fill in for the awareness course/points. I was caught in Norfolk but its not where im from i was down there as i had to visit a RAF base in the area. I had three friends in the car who were all in earshot of mine and the officers conversation.

 

 

Thing is the officer has prejudiced his case. This means you can turn it his way by stating you were bribed or were forced to admit the offence.

[Jamesstewart]

Thing is the officer has prejudiced his case. This means you can turn it his way by stating you were bribed or were forced to admit the offence.

 

But i wasnt, he showed me the radar gun which still had the recorded speed shown on it and i accepted i was in the wrong

[assisted blonde]

As far as I know a police officer can not offer you a guarrented speed awarness course, he may have said that you may be offered one but he dosnt know if you are eligable at the roadside, if you admit the offence then you are eligable for consideration for a speed awareness course (if you dont admit it you cant be offered one) but it is not a guarrentee of being offered the option as it depends on circumstance, you were not forced to admit the offence and the officer wasnt bribing you you would be very silly to try and say otherwise.

at the end of the day 3 points are annoying but not catastropic if you dont have any others

[letsmakeamark]

But i wasnt, he showed me the radar gun which still had the recorded speed shown on it and i accepted i was in the wrong

I wouldnt be to worried about it. Ask it goes to court. you will then recieve a summons with a copy of the police officers statement. you can then go about doing what you need to do

[assisted blonde]

And if you loose the case? we are lookingf at a very simple 3 points here and a 60.00 fine, you admit the offence take the points pay the fine, a speed awarness course would have cost more and 3 points dont make a difference on most licences. And I have got to say again there is no guarentee of being offered a couse and you cannot be offered one without first admiting the offence.

[letsmakeamark]

With a course you pay for it and your done. 3points= £200-£300 plus rise in insurance ?

[Aretnap]

41 in a 30 would normally see you offered a course in any area which is part of the National Scheme, including Norfolk. At a guess they sent you a letter with information about the course and giving you a certain amount of time to book one, for some reason you never received the letter, and as you didn't book the course they've now sent a fixed penalty. I'd suggest ringing them up, explaining that you were offered a course at the roadside but never received an offer, and asking if it's still possible to do one. They may be willing to give you more time to book one. There will also be a deadline by which you have to actually do the course (usually 4 months after the offence at most) so you may have to be flexible about where and when you do it.

[Aretnap]

Thing is the officer has prejudiced his case. This means you can turn it his way by stating you were bribed or were forced to admit the offence.

The problem with thatis that he wasn't bribed or forced to admit the offence, and they don't need his admission to prosecute him anyway. The idea that a cop saying the wrong thing to you means you have a get out of jail free card belongs in American films, not British courts.

[assisted blonde]

3 points do not necessarily add this amount to your insurance depends on who you are with. Also another thing to remember is that the OP could go to court, it goes against him, so 3 points + fine + he would have had to pay for a solicitor as he wouldnt get legal aid for this, seems a good idea to ring and say he didnt get a letter offering him a course but they may still say he wasnt going to be offered one but its worth asking but needs sorting quickly really one way or another or fine increases or he may be out of time to do a course even if offered one.

[Aretnap]

And I have got to say again there is no guarentee of being offered a couse and you cannot be offered one without first admiting the offence.

There's no requirement that you admit the offence, just that you confirm that you were driving at the time, if that hasn't already been established at the roadside.

[crem]

I thought they normally only offered speed awarewess courses for speeds up to limit+10%+6 i.e on a30 limit road that would be 30+3+6=39?

 

41 on a 30 would be outside this tolerance.

[Aretnap]

I thought they normally only offered speed awarewess courses for speeds up to limit+10%+6 i.e on a30 limit road that would be 30+3+6=39?

 

41 on a 30 would be outside this tolerance.

Increased to 10%+9 in most areas since 2011 (Linky - more have joined the national scheme and adopted the new guidelines since then)

[sgtbush]

the officer would of said, you MAY be offered a speed awarness course, i suspect with all that was going on you were stressed and didnt listen word for word,

 

anyways 41 mph is usually outside the tolorance levels for speed awareness unless circumstances deem it so, obviously in your case them decided it was not appropiate to do a course and 3 points and a fine is more of a punishment for you breaking the law

[Aretnap]

anyways 41 mph is usually outside the tolorance levels for speed awareness course...

10%+9 ie up to 42 in a 30 in most areas, including Norfolk.

 

http://norfolk-safety-camera.org.uk/index.php?page=speedaware

 

James - the other reason it might not have been offered would be if you've already done one in the last 3 years - but if you had done one you'd presumably know that. There's also an outside chance that they think you have one one because a mistake on the database - not especially common, but not unknown. Nothing to lose by asking about it.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Aretnap

[NE1advice]

Phone the fixed penalty unit and ask why you were not offered the speed awareness course. The answer is likely to be you were not deemed suitable OR you were offered and did not respond to the letter in time. If you were not deemed suitable, not much you can do so long as their reasons are correct. If you were sent an offer and didn't receive it, they may be willing to re-consider. However they will be working within strict time limits as if you fail to attend course they have to then summons you within 6 months.

Don't drag it out by refusing FPN and asking for court hearing. Whether you admitted offence or not is irrelevant as police officer can give evidence of speed as he showed you at the time.