New bedroom tax

[Nystagmite]

‘The CSJ, which is Iain Duncan Smith’s own think tank, they have campaigned

for a change to the bedroom tax so that where people have been made a reasonable

offer of somewhere to move to and they refused to do that - they then pay the

tax.

 

Where there is no offer to move and there is no choice, then they don’t have

to pay the tax.’

 

This sounds much fairer imo. Else you're penalising people for things out of their control.

[time4change2]

her landlord said if she get into arrears they they cant put her on the transfer list so its a catch 22 really for not just my sister but a lot of other people too

[lenny100]

I have today recived the figuresfor east durham homes which are probably the most in the country but i stand to be put in my place

 

single person or couple with no childern 2 bedrooms reduction 14%

3 or more reduction 25%

 

lone parent/couple with one child 3 bedrooms reduction 14%

4 or more reduction 25%

 

lone parent/couple with 2 children both under 16 and same gender 3 bedrooms reduction 14%

4 or more reduction 25%

 

lone parent/couple with 2 chuildren under 10 diffrent gender 3 bedrooms reduction 14%

4 bedrooms reduction 25%

[worried33]

This sounds much fairer imo. Else you're penalising people for things out of their control.

 

My question is why isnt this proposal made to the under 35 rule change?

 

As I said before this bedroom tax has had far more publicity, whilst the change that affected me sweeped by unopposed.

 

If they made that change to the bedroom tax I will be very angry because the same change should be there for under 35s in private accomodation. So basically council offers me accomodation or keeps me on 1 bed rate.

[id6052]

housing association tenant

 

lives alone

 

i stay 2 days a week dad stays the other 2

 

based upom the information you have supplied, i am not sure why you have been refused

 

there is nothing in HB regs for extra bedroom that states that you need to be in receipt of Carers Allowance or that the carer can not be a family member - I would advise appealing the decision

[Surfer01]

If you have a 8 year old and a 9 year old in a 3 bedroom house you have to move or pay the tax. So you move but in two years time you need the 3 bedroom house again. Doesn't make sense?

If you are not claiming carer's allowance you have to pay £15 per week because you have a 2 bedroom flat. So you claim carer's allowance at £70 plus a week. Self defeating tax?

[id6052]

If you have a 8 year old and a 9 year old in a 3 bedroom house you have to move or pay the tax. So you move but in two years time you need the 3 bedroom house again. Doesn't make sense?

 

If they are same gender, you would not be entitled to 3 bedroom rate until the oldest turns 16

If they are different genders, I would suggest applying for a Discretionary Housing Payment, until oldest turns 10.

 

If you are not claiming carer's allowance you have to pay £15 per week because you have a 2 bedroom flat. So you claim carer's allowance at £70 plus a week. Self defeating tax?

 

Carer's Allowance does not affect bedroom tax

[Surfer01]

If they are same gender, you would not be entitled to 3 bedroom rate until the oldest turns 16

If they are different genders, I would suggest applying for a Discretionary Housing Payment, until oldest turns 10.

 

Carer's Allowance does not affect bedroom tax

 

Seems Cameron has a different perspective of the bedroom tax. Okay and if the kids are of different gender or one is 14 and the other 15. Still means that the parents are penalised and if the downgrade to save the tax, within a year they have to upgrade again.

I agree that single people or a couple occupying a 3 bedroom home should be penalised, but most of these are elderly and on pension and the bedroom tax does not apply to them anyway, yet I think the govt was trying to target them.

The bedroom tax has not been thought through very well.

[osdset]

In more than 30 locations across Britain people opposed to the Bedroom Tax will be gathering in city centres to protest against the policy on March 16 at 1pm

 

Source http://www.coalitionofresistance.org.uk/2013/03/protest-the-bedroom-tax-defend-welfare-benefits/

[jadeybags]

Yeh it's not really making any sense to me. It's the elderly with grown children that have left home that occupy a lot of the social housing 3 & 4 beds, couples were handed them with no kids back in the day. My mum had one when she only had me & sis as toddlers.(2 girls) Yet the elderly aren't included.

[Surfer01]

If you were elderly and lived in gthe same neighbourhood all your life, would you want to be moved into a new environment where none of your friends are around? Your home would have many happy memories which you are clinging to only to have them ripped away from you.

Another issue is that the government realise the power of the grey vote which is why they have not included pensioners in the hit list and prefer to leave pensioners alone.

[osdset]

The government are petrified at the thought of any cuts to pensioners it's political suicide, not just because the elderly are a huge voting group the reasoning is that those of us under retirement age will be effected at some point, it brings cuts home to the attention of the public, many people will never need to claim benefits, but everyone will (if they live long enough) retire.

[id6052]

Yeh it's not really making any sense to me. It's the elderly with grown children that have left home that occupy a lot of the social housing 3 & 4 beds, couples were handed them with no kids back in the day. My mum had one when she only had me & sis as toddlers.(2 girls) Yet the elderly aren't included.

 

exclusion of pensioners clearly proves that the policy is not really intended to free up larger properties, it is just a money grab against vulnerable working age claimants

[jadeybags]

exclusion of pensioners clearly proves that the policy is not really intended to free up larger properties, it is just a money grab against vulnerable working age claimants

 

Yes, you're so right there...

[Nystagmite]

If you were elderly and lived in gthe same neighbourhood all your life, would you want to be moved into a new environment where none of your friends are around? Your home would have many happy memories which you are clinging to only to have them ripped away from you.

 

That applies to so many groups of people though. A lot of disabled people have a support network in place, easy access to shops, their GP surgery, hospital, etc. But why should they be forced to move? There aren't that many accessible homes either.

[Surfer01]

exclusion of pensioners clearly proves that the policy is not really intended to free up larger properties, it is just a money grab against vulnerable working age claimants

 

The very reason why this policy was not thought through properly as I suspect that couples without children occupying 2 and 3 bedroom homes is in a minority. I can see a backlash on this adding to another failure by IDS. The sooner he is kicked out, the better for the everyone including the government!

[Nystagmite]

The very reason why this policy was not thought through properly as I suspect that couples without children occupying 2 and 3 bedroom homes is in a minority. I can see a backlash on this adding to another failure by IDS. The sooner he is kicked out, the better for the everyone including the government!

 

Childless couples who are in 2 or 3 bedroom houses are probably in them because there's no 1 bedroom places.

[RaeUK]

That applies to so many groups of people though. A lot of disabled people have a support network in place, easy access to shops, their GP surgery, hospital, etc. But why should they be forced to move? ...

 

Quite so. It does irritate me greatly that I will shortly be paying £15pw more than my neighbour for an identical property. We both live alone in two bed bungalows. But, hey ho, she's a pensioner. (And I've been here considerably longer. Grrrr!)

[id6052]

Quite so. It does irritate me greatly that I will shortly be paying £15pw more than my neighbour for an identical property. We both live alone in two bed bungalows. But, hey ho, she's a pensioner. (And I've been here considerably longer. Grrrr!)

 

I think we have to be careful not to play into government's hands, as there is more than one reason for government exempting pensioners.

 

There is the obvious reason which is to avoid risking the wrath of the 'grey vote' who normally determine the outcome in any election

Some useful figures from 2005 (I tried finding something more recent, but been unsuccessful)

Ages 18-24 – 37% voted

Ages 25-34 – 49 %voted

Ages 55-64 – 71% voted

Ages 65+ – 75% voted

But the government are also playing their normal game of trying to divide the population (public v private sector workers), (shirkers v strikers), now working age v pensioners. Each division distracts the electorate from uniting to fight against this millionaire government, by making them fight amongst themselves.

 

It reminds me of the words of Pastor Martin Niemoller First they came for the Communists

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me

And there was no one left

To speak out for me

 

Am sure it could easily be updated to reflect the various cuts imposed by the current government

[antone]

 

But the government are also playing their normal game of trying to divide the population (public v private sector workers), (shirkers v strikers), now working age v pensioners. Each division distracts the electorate from uniting to fight against this millionaire government, by making them fight amongst themselves.

 

 

Yes. "Immigrants" are another group commonly used as a target. There aren't really that many of them and they don't get much in the way of benefits, but to read the popular press you'd think that there was a tide of east Europeans advancing towards Dover, begging bowls in hand.

[estellyn]

Yes. "Immigrants" are another group commonly used as a target. There aren't really that many of them and they don't get much in the way of benefits, but to read the popular press you'd think that there was a tide of east Europeans advancing towards Dover, begging bowls in hand.

 

Yes, I've met a lot of Eastern Europeans over the years and most are really hard working and want to come here to work and provide a better life for their family, whether that is by them living here or sending money back. Blaming them is awful, as I don't think we'd be any different in their situation. As my husband says, the problem is the lower incomes and cost of living and living standards in new EEA countries which allow people to work here and send money back there. The problem resolves eventually as the influx of money into their economies drives up prices, wages and standard of living - meaning eventually most workers return to their countries.

[osdset]

Yes, I've met a lot of Eastern Europeans over the years and most are really hard working and want to come here to work and provide a better life for their family, whether that is by them living here or sending money back. Blaming them is awful, as I don't think we'd be any different in their situation. As my husband says, the problem is the lower incomes and cost of living and living standards in new EEA countries which allow people to work here and send money back there. The problem resolves eventually as the influx of money into their economies drives up prices, wages and standard of living - meaning eventually most workers return to their countries.

 

Can someone explain to me just how the Olympic site for example was built mainly by a Bulgarian workforce? Why there are regular patrols of Romanian women begging and trying to sell fake gold on the streets of Stratford, when Bulgaria and Romania are still awaiting membership of the EU?

 

How is it that most of the local car washing sites, an at least one pub is owned and run by Albanians?

 

How a good percentage of people I bump into are actually Russian, here on fake Lithuanian passports.

 

As for them returning home when things improve, I would not be betting any money on that notion. The Polish pub manager at my local told me that things show no sign of improving back in Poland and that her and her friends are here to stay.

 

The economic situation in most of these countries is not likely to to get better any time soon, the fact that most of their young workforce are deserting in droves is testament to that.

 

Eastern European migrants might well be in the minority country-wide, but get on a bus in my part of London and you will be hard pressed to hear an English accent, many of us 'locals' feel we are the minority group now.

[jadeybags]

Can someone explain to me just how the Olympic site for example was built mainly by a Bulgarian workforce? Why there are regular patrols of Romanian women begging and trying to sell fake gold on the streets of Stratford, when Bulgaria and Romania are still awaiting membership of the EU?

 

How is it that most of the local car washing sites, an at least one pub is owned and run by Albanians?

 

How a good percentage of people I bump into are actually Russian, here on fake Lithuanian passports.

 

As for them returning home when things improve, I would not be betting any money on that notion. The Polish pub manager at my local told me that things show no sign of improving back in Poland and that her and her friends are here to stay.

 

The economic situation in most of these countries is not likely to to get better any time soon, the fact that most of their young workforce are deserting in droves is testament to that.

 

Eastern European migrants might well be in the minority country-wide, but get on a bus in my part of London and you will be hard pressed to hear an English accent, many of us 'locals' feel we are the minority group now.

 

No one will be able to explain it tbh. It's getting the same way here. Mears did my bathroom a few months back, the only person that spoke English was the site manager. Sorry but the old argument that the Brits don't want the work so the Polish take the jobs is really boring now & thankfully not washing with people as much anymore. That's nothing to do with the media. It's what we are seeing happening.

[osdset]

No one will be able to explain it tbh. It's getting the same way here. Mears did my bathroom a few months back, the only person that spoke English was the site manager. Sorry but the old argument that the Brits don't want the work so the Polish take the jobs is really boring now & thankfully not washing with people as much anymore. That's nothing to do with the media. It's what we are seeing happening.

 

 

I have a friend that co-owns a small building firm, he told me the other week that they only employ Eastern European labour because " they work all hours for a pittance" he added "we could not compete if we paid our workforce at the going rate based on an 8-9 hour day".

 

These people are prepared to work 10-12 hour shifts for very basic wages, I suppose it's far better than they are used to back home. That's what has basically screwed the building game for us, at 57 there is no way I could handle a 10 hour stint on the tools with only a half hour 'hurry up' break, besides which my lungs have had it now so manual work is out for me anyway.

 

If these people are prepared to put up with being treated like pack horses then good luck to them. Unfortunately it's set a precedent, firms will be very reluctant to go back to paying a fair rate for a days work so British workers have been priced out of a job, that's the bottom line I'm afraid.

[Surfer01]

Many people in their quest to improve their standard of living have priced themselves out of the job market. Nothing wrong with ambition and wanting higher wages, but I suppose there has to be a limit at some point.