UK CC debt living in France

[fielding]

Hello

 

New to this site and I am looking to get help regarding a MBNA Credit Card Debt.

 

I owe about £20,000 on a MBNA card in the UK and recently have run into financial difficulties here in France. The card is registered to me at my French address although was first applied for whilst in the UK.

 

I have just paid the latest min payment but I fear this will be the last I can manage. I called them today to explain my difficulties. They took details of my current income and expenditure which highlighted why I could no longer pay. They said they would freeze the interest but if no payments were made after 6 or 7 months then they would sell the debt.

 

My main concerns are what happens after that. Who will pick up the debt and what can they do?

I rent in France and own no property anywhere. My income is lower than my current essential expenditure.

 

Will eventually someone march into my rented property and take what things I have left?

Can my van and tools that I use to make a self employed living be taken?

 

I have no hidden assets or wealth.

 

Through ill health my business suffered and the debt went up. I've written to the tax people here in France who have agreed I can pay my owed taxes over the next 2 years which is difficult enough along with the rent, rates, cost of raising children etc etc.

 

My business is currently improving so I hope to at least be breaking even regarding my essential costs but I fear I will never be in the situation to service or pay back the UK debt.

I have no other UK or French Debt and it is the first time I've found myself in this situation. All very worrying.

 

Thanks

[cerberusalert]

Will eventually someone march into my rented property and take what things I have left?

Can my van and tools that I use to make a self employed living be taken?

Not without a court order & even then they cannot touch your tools etc.

 

It is possible that MBNA may take court action but they would have to do it in France using UK law. The cost to them in time, energy & money wouldn't be worth it in reality particularly as they know your circumstances & lack of assets. They will be more likely to sell the debt & claim tax relief then a debt collector will try their luck. Again the DCA may attempt to obtain a judgment, usually a EPO but you could contest the jurisdiction which would mean they would have to go the normal route through a French court which is expensive and protracted.

 

Was there any PPI with this debt & have any unfair charges been added?

[unclebulgaria67]

The card debt will come under the UK consumer credit act and it is a good thing they have your French address. If them or any debt collectors want to continue collection activity, they have to contact you and not be sneeky by making any court claim out to your old UK address, so you could not defend.

 

I suspect that if this debt is not subject to any reasonable repayment arrangements within say a year, the bank will write it off and/or pass it off for debt collection. This will just be letters threatening to take action, but may not amount to much. They could look to go for a European Enforcement Order via a court near to you and then if not disputed, you would have to make affordable repayments. I doubt that bankruptcy would be considered unless the found that you had personal assets worth going after.

 

If you are not concerned by major damage to your UK credit record, then there is not too much to worry about. Just concentrate on getting your health back and on earning what you can to survive. Worth staying in contact with the card provider, just to inform them of your position.

 

Do you know when you took out this card originally ? If it is along time ago, it may be worth requesting a copy of the CCA, as if they can't provide this, then you have reason to place the debt in dispute.

[fielding]

There was no PPI with the card and even now I have not missed a payment, albeit min repayment. Mind you the next payment due date will be a different story!

 

I don't think I've had any unfair charges made on the account.

[fielding]

This card must have been taken out over 10 years ago perhaps 15 or more. The credit rating does not bother me.

[fielding]

Do you know when you took out this card originally ? If it is along time ago, it may be worth requesting a copy of the CCA, as if they can't provide this, then you have reason to place the debt in dispute.

 

I assume you mean them providing me with the original signed agreement when taking the card?

 

How does this help if they cannot provide it - what will putting the debt in dispute do? Even though it is over 10 years ago I would assume someone like MBNA Europe Ltd would have records. If it's likely to help me then I will ask.

 

Thanks for your help

[cerberusalert]

Because of the age of the agreement if they try for a judgment they have to produce it to a court, later agreements can be reconstructed and accepted by a court.

 

A lot of lenders transferred hard copies on to micro-filch or electronically stored them and for various reasons misfiled or deleted them after destroying the original hard copies to save storage costs. Others stored them but can't find them.

[fielding]

Is there a right and wrong way to request this CCA?

Tel, Mail, Registered Mail

 

Are they obliged to send me a copy or tell me that they do not have it?

[cerberusalert]

Send them this which costs £1 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?414-CCA-request-letter.

[fielding]

Hi

 

I sent the CCA request letter and I was wondering what my next move might be, that is if I don't get a reply soon.

The letter was sent reg/recorded on the 13th March from France to MBNA in the UK.

 

I assume the 12+2 comes into play after they have received it?

 

Thanks

[cerberusalert]

I assume the 12+2 comes into play after they have received it?

Yes. They cannot take any enforcement action until they produce a legally enforceable CCA.

[fielding]

The CCA letter request arrived with MBNA on the 15th March. I have yet to receive a reply. Is there anything I should be doing considering the lapsed time?

[unclebulgaria67]

The CCA letter request arrived with MBNA on the 15th March. I have yet to receive a reply. Is there anything I should be doing considering the lapsed time?

 

Would give them a bit longer ( say a week), allowing for Easter Bank Hols. Then you can send this letter.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?436-Failure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale.

[fielding]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Letter received today from MBNA postmarked 4/4/13 inside my signed agreement, actually over 16 years old.

 

I just hope I have some money when they come looking for me!

 

Thanks for the help.

[Old Cogger]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Letter received today from MBNA postmarked 4/4/13 inside my signed agreement, actually over 16 years old.

 

I just hope I have some money when they come looking for me!

 

Thanks for the help.

 

MBNA agreement could be a mock up one, upload minus your personal details/account number etc for peeps to advise, in most cases they onlyhave to produce a reconstruction of one not actual copy of original in section 77/78/79 request>

[fielding]

It looks like the original to me with my signature and writing.

 

I want to pay this off but just haven't the funds to do so. I will again speak to MBNA and discuss if I have any options rather than it being passed to a debt agency as that prospect worries me.

[Old Cogger]

It looks like the original to me with my signature and writing.

 

I want to pay this off but just haven't the funds to do so. I will again speak to MBNA and discuss if I have any options rather than it being passed to a debt agency as that prospect worries me.

 

 

let peeps look for you, MBNA has been noted if you in trouble sell it on anyway? even afterany agreement!

[unclebulgaria67]

It looks like the original to me with my signature and writing.

 

I want to pay this off but just haven't the funds to do so. I will again speak to MBNA and discuss if I have any options rather than it being passed to a debt agency as that prospect worries me.

 

Unless you can gain agreement with MBNA to make sizeable ( near to minimum payment) repayments over a relevant period. I don't think you will stop them passing to debt collectors. Even if MBNA came to an agreement with you, there is still the possibility of them passing to debt collector to manage the payments. This is because these Banks are under pressure internally to get shot of accounts which are not performing for them and they would rather someone else incur the admin costs of dealing with it.

 

Think you should consider contacting Stepchange to see what options might be available to deal with this debt.

 

ww.stepchange.org/#

[fielding]

Just thought I would give you an update to the situation.

 

 

 

I contacted Stepchange who were helpful and gave a casenumber. I passed this on to MBNA to indicate that I am trying to resolve the debt.

 

 

 

MBNA will only accept the min or near min payments and have recently written to me stating that unless I do this they will pass the debt onto an agency in a few months time.

 

 

 

I have a possible solution and was hoping to receive advice to what the best thing to do would be.

 

 

 

I have a small pension in the UK and I have been told that I can transfer it out of the UK and therefore get 30% cash payment from it. This will only pay off about 25% of the debt but possibly it would give me a bit of breathing space to pay the remainder at a later time.

 

 

 

I assume, if it comes to it, that the debt agency will get a court order against me as the credit agreement exists and what happens then is what really worries me.

 

 

 

I have no assets to speak of but can they add interest tothe debt?

 

Are debt agencies willing to settle for an amount less than the total debt?

 

Can they affect my business if that’s the only assets I have in the way of tools and equipment, small as they are?

 

 

 

I only have a few months and the pension solution is not a sure thing, so I might have to be ready to face the debt collectors come what may.

 

 

 

Thanks again

[Old Cogger]

DO NOT CASH IN ANY PENSIONS (That would be silly) your future, - MBNA are rubbish, what I would do if you are not after fighting them is pay them £20.00 per month or a LOW figure you can afford,Not a high figure as it usually falters as un managable., = end of matter as that is what you will pay them, you tell them = they do not tell you, any action from anybody in response to this situation then you are showing you pay what you can and that is it, no matter what they say!!! you control this not them = They Like It or Lump It!!!

 

Just my idea!!! MBNA would sell an account off (Make Money from the sale) , claim Tax relief (More Money) claim on their Insurance (More Money), so how much will they be out of pocket????

Edited June 18, 2013 by Old Cogger

[unclebulgaria67]

Agree. Make minimal affordable payments on the basis that they can take it or leave it. Do not touch any pensions early, as you will need this when you get nearer to retirement.

 

If MBNA or any debt collector does not like the payments, then make them aware of your situation, that you have limited income and assets, so they either accept the amount being offered per month or agree to receive nothing putting the account on hold.

[fielding]

Hi Guys

 

I know this has been touched upon but can you spell out for me what might happen in the near future as MBNA will be selling the debt on.

 

I assume it will be picked up by a French debt collecting agency who will no doubt contact me. I will be able to offer a small monthly payment but I mean only small.

 

What really worries me is my business assets. I have a small workshop with some machinery that is part of my business and is the only assets I have. I'm not talking great sums of money but if the machinery was sold on it might raise 10k

 

If push come to shove can they bankrupt me and force the sale of my business assets to part clear the debt?

 

Of course it would ruin me as without the machinery I cannot operate my business.

I have no personal assets of any worth like property or vehicles or basically anything apart from the clothes I stand in. Whilst I have my business I can pay my rent and feed my family. Without my business I'm done for.

 

Is there any chance whatsoever that I could lose the only thing I have left?

 

Now my back is to the wall I'm up for any scrap going, whatever it takes.

 

Thanks

[unclebulgaria67]

No the debt market is much more stupid. Your debt will just be one of hundreds that are packaged together and sold onto a debt buyer. The debt buyer will not havc much information and will write generic letters to whatever address they can find from UK records. They might not have any details of anything you have told MBNA and they may not even know you are in France, let alone know how to enforce any debt in France.

 

It would surprise me if you receive any letters this year from any debt buyer, unless your UK credit record shows your current French address. Unless the debt buyer has offices in France or access to a company who specialises in overseas enforcement, they are more likely to just keep selling the debt on, like a game of musical chairs.

 

I can't see anything legal wise happening for years, if it happens at all. Debt buyers go for easy wins and if you are in France, then you are not an easy win. It is purely a numbers game to them. They buy say £250k's worth of debt for £25k and out of that they may recover say £125k, with the remaining debt uncollected sold on for whatever they can get.

 

This is a personal debt and therefore I don't think in France they could look at any tools of trade. If they managed to gain a court judgement in France, they would only look at your personal financial assets.

[fielding]

The debt has been passed on to Arden who have recently contacted me. For now they are talking about my ability to pay and have done little else. What will they try to do, or are they capable of forcing payment through the French courts?

 

 

I have informed them that for now I will not have the spare money at the end of the month to pay them a regular amount.

However a family member (who has some experience in this field) would be able to forward me a lump some to offer them as one off and final payment. However, it only amounts to about a 5th of the debt so I would have thought they would reject but my family member says they might take it!

 

 

Any help would be welcome

Thanks

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes they can take you to a French court, using local lawyers. I doubt they will do this very quickly. More likely to hassle you for many months.

 

You could send them a without prejudice full and final offer letter, explaining your financial position.

 

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/24%20EW%20Full%20and%20final%20settlement%20offers/Default.aspx