crashed into stationary vehicle

[renegadeimp]

My GPS is pretty accurate. it's gotten me out of a couple of speeding tickets The 5-10 secs i was stationary while waiting for cars to pass so i could turn right.

 

As for ice, its already been explained why you are wrong on this. If there is snow/ice etc on the ground, even a very thin layer can have the effect at very slow speeds of loss of control of the car. As i said, even at 2-3 mph which is less than regular walking speed, once it loses grip, you have 1.5 tonne plus of metal moving, and unless the car hits a clear patch of road, that metal is going to keep moving until it either hits something, or it loses its inertia. It's basic physics.

[heliosuk]

I find it astounding that you fail to understand or accept that some slides, given the right conditions, are neither caused by the driver nor able to be stopped by the driver.

 

On a slope or hill, simply making any attempt to move the car may be too much, but until you move the car you don't know! I have seen cars slide sideways at a snails pace and even seen them side backwards when a forward motion up a slope was intended.

 

I am not necessarily saying the OPs bump was such a case, but you total non-acceptance that such slides can take place is somewhat surprising.

 

Slides are caused by the driver not being in control, not understanding the conditions and not understanding a cars capabilities. Basic physics applies. Nordic countries don't have the problem do they?

[heliosuk]

You guys having a pop at the wrong person here. If you can afford it I'll show you exactly what can and cannot be done on ice and exactly how it should be handled.

[renegadeimp]

I know how to handle icy roads. I'm not debating that. I'm simply telling you the technical side of it. It's one thing for people to say something about how to handle it, its quite another to actually experience it. Again, it happened at VERY low speeds.

 

Now think what you are taught in advanced driving classes. Youa re taught to steer well around any object if you think or feel the car starting to lose control. Only if you are sure you cant, should you apply the brakes, but even then this is inadvisable as the brakes will lock, but depending on the inertia of the vehicle, or even the road surface "grip", the vehicle will still move.

 

Check out a few youtube vids. You can clearly see some vehicles that are moving at even 1-2 mph and they just keep on sliding until they hit something. If its a large pathc of ice or snow, then inertia will just keep it going, momentum will increase until... bang. the vehicle hits something.

 

 

However, instead of causing an argument about how physics work and potentially derailling the thread, lets just agree to disagree so we can get back on topic.

[heliosuk]

My GPS is pretty accurate. it's gotten me out of a couple of speeding tickets The 5-10 secs i was stationary while waiting for cars to pass so i could turn right.

 

As for ice, its already been explained why you are wrong on this. If there is snow/ice etc on the ground, even a very thin layer can have the effect at very slow speeds of loss of control of the car. As i said, even at 2-3 mph which is less than regular walking speed, once it loses grip, you have 1.5 tonne plus of metal moving, and unless the car hits a clear patch of road, that metal is going to keep moving until it either hits something, or it loses its inertia. It's basic physics.

 

Yes it is basic physics and inertia is dependant on speed...........or have I lost something here?? It is also based on co-efficient of friction and mass..........you want me to go into more detail?

[renegadeimp]

Inertia is dependant on speed yes. But you seem to have missed momentum which can have a direct effect on inertia. You say things about friction and mass... something which i already explained.

 

For instance When the speed of a car doubles ( even from 2-4 mph), it's kinetic energy quadruples. This has a pretty huge effect on its momentum and inertia on ice or snow. Once its "locked in", the car will keep moving or increasing until there is something to take away that energy. That means either an object or the road surface changes to allow more grip, or the weight of the car is more than the kinetic energy being put.

 

Since the OP stated that the vehicle was at the bottom of an icy slope, and he was going slow, its pretty obvious to see the basic forces at work.

 

I think i'll leave it there as we arent going to agree on the obvious points of basic physics and the thread is getting derailed.

 

Hopefully it will work out for the OP, but personally i dont think his viewpoint is going to work out. Mainly because in driving lessons, highway code and a multitude of other places, it says to steer away from the obstruction well in advance to minimise the risk of collision.

Edited January 20, 2013 by renegadeimp

[sailor sam]

I'm 100% with renegadeimp and crem here. I've been on various driving courses including an advanced one. I reckon I can handle most driving conditions which are put in front of me. BUT as far as i'm concerned, when it comes to ice, once you have lost it, there ain't much you can do about it, especially on a hill. Ive highlighted my incident earlier and in such circumstances, I believe the local authority has an obligation to make sure the road surface is safe enough to drive upon. If the road goes down a hill, then it should either be treated or closed. Because the fact of the matter is, no matter how good a driver you are, once the car starts to slide on ice, there ain't much you can do about it.

 

I remember seeing a clip of a refuse truck sliding backwards down a hill with it's brakes on! It hit a car at the bottom which fortunately bought the truck to a stop.

 

Please Note

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[heliosuk]

Like you I will agree we are not necessarily going to agree on the basics of why.

 

As you say, and has been pointed out, theOP's viewpoint will probably not work out.

 

What I would say though is that if anyone gets the chance to test cars on ice then take it. It does wonders for the bowels initialy and you learn very quickly how to deal with it.

 

Key to my instruction was speed in surroundings! It didn'tgo down well smacking a quater of a million dollar prototype into a parked transit!!

[renegadeimp]

Like you I will agree we are not necessarily going to agree on the basics of why.

 

As you say, and has been pointed out, theOP's viewpoint will probably not work out.

 

[heliosuk]

Ever done 100mph into a 30 degree bend on ice renegad? And without ABS and ESP.

 

Tis actually easier than you would think.

[renegadeimp]

Nope. Had no reason to break the speed limit, nor had any time recently to go on another course. However, one of my cars doesnt have ABS and ESP (1997 corsa B) so i can imagine what its like doing that.

[sailor sam]

I think we are going way off topic here. There is a heap of difference driving under test conditions on ice I would of thought, to driving under normal road conditions. For example, in my case I was on a fairly narrow residential road with very little 'escape' opportunities. So it was difficult enough to prevent the car smacking into the kerb on either side.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[assisted blonde]

At the end of the day the ops car was moving and the other vehice was stationary, if you hit a person who was standing still on a blind bend it would still be down to you if you were moving.

[borisbeaver]

Look on the bright side. You could of hit the kerb and damaged your wheels and steering. The van probably prevented more damage.

[renegadeimp]

Wheels and steering are easy to sort out. Its a 30 min or so job at best once you get under the car.

[oddjobbob]

+1 to assisted bloonde, the OPs car was moving the other one wasn't.

 

That's about it really....