Witness Intimidation plus Ex Employer Lying

[Calamity1]

The ET wrote to me saying that the panel were meeting for a day of deliberation and decision making, last Monday, a week ago.

 

I imagine they will post their decision to me; is this correct?

 

I haven't heard anything yet and usually receive a letter, within two, or three days of judgements/decisions.

 

Is this normal/usual?

 

Does the delay have any significance?

 

The intimidation of witnesses (who all pulled out), continues.

 

I believe I proved, irrefutably, that the respondents lied under oath (even Judge said certain lies were obvious). I hope I proved the discrimination, although the Judge didn't comment on whether I proved this, or not. Although a witness, under court order, confirmed various incidents, but not all.

 

Did I read correctly that ETs are unlike Criminal Courts in that it doesn't have to be beyond reasonable doubt?

 

Does this mean that if lies are proven and certain incidents confirmed by police, witness and even the respondents, that there will be doubt and does this mean that there's a chance that even on incidents of discrimination that were not proven beyond reasonable doubt, that there's a chance they'll know it's likely I was telling the truth (which I was), or is that, unfortunately, not enough?

 

Just unable to sleep again and voicing my wonderings...

 

Calam

[Calamity1]

I also meant to ask whether the following was allowed:

 

1. Just before the hearing started, the respondents' solicitor phoned me, even though I didn't provide a phone number, had changed my number to stop any threatening phonecalls and the solicitor lied and said he got my number from Facebook... I'm not on Facebook and in his notes it said he got it from a flyer, which is impossible as I don't have flyers.

 

I also said I only wanted written correspondence as I am ill and he neglected to mention he basically threatened me with various things if I didn't stop. He also was untruthful about what I said.

 

Is any of this allowed?

 

I also found out, after the fact, that without my permission, he phoned up my psychiatrist, after my psychiatrist had said he thought I was too ill to attend court and needed six weeks for meds to kick in and asked the psychiatrist for information on me, including getting my psychiatrist to say it was my mental and physical health he was concerned about and that I understood the process and so another judge, without my judge's knowledge (he commented on his surprise at this) ordered me to attend court even though unwell and caused further harm by being forced to attend before meds kicked in and against medical advice.

 

Is this allowed? I am really annoyed that he phoned my consultant psychiatrist and that my psychiatrist even spoke to him, which resulted in me having to attend court after medical professionals said I shouldn't.

 

My meds are starting to kick in and I'm beginning to become aware of how many discrepancies and irregularities and just plain old things I don't think were 'cricket' there were.

 

Calam

[Callaghanclown]

I'd wait for the decision, note down all discrepancies in the meantime and deal with them only if the outcome is unfavourable.

[Pusillanimous]

Calamity, there is no way of knowing how they will call it. Hopefully, you will have justice, and if so, be sure to put in an application for costs, based on what you have told us, above. Ask for aggravated damages, as well.

 

He probably got your number by ringing around likely people who had it, on some pretext. (Now illegal.)

[Calamity1]

It appears my replies did not post...

 

Callaghanclown, thank you for replying; I wasn't planning on doing anything, I'm just not sure if this is usual.

 

Pusillanimous, thank you for replying. If I win, I will. Thank you for the advice. Still no news as yet.

 

Calam

[Calamity1]

i'm not sure whether to ask this here, or elsewhere...

 

The police have been investigating the malicious communications sent to me, witnesses, councils, court etc. we have all received more. even nastier, in last two weeks.

 

previously, a police officer told me I would have to turn up dead, before it was warranted serious enough for a judge to issue a court order to trace the origins of the emails.

 

I hope this is not the case and the police are tracing them, especially as they caused me to stop trading, caused me a deterioration in my health, to the point of daily doctor home visits to check on me and they are relentless, as well as becoming nastier, involving identity theft, loss of income, fraud and perverting justice.

 

My question is; what are my rights? Am I able to demand tracing? Am I able to get, or insist on court order?

 

I would like to know my rights, before I speak to police again, as they have already messed up on previous charges and prosecutions etc.

 

Calam

[Calamity1]

P.s. already put new found knowledge to good use in helping someone do a SAR with one organisation and use of Freedom of Information Act to get police reports relating to an incident...

[caro]

I hope this article might provide you with some help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harassment_in_the_United_Kingdom

[ericsbrother]

Your psychiatrist is not allowed to tell someone else that you are even a patient of theirs so it defies any wisdom that they have told the opposition's lawyers about you. You need to ask him/her why they have done what they have and under what supposed right have they given out confidential information. I would also contact the SRA and complain about this company. When they phone just put the phone down. Dont say a word, just put it down.

When the ET is over make a complaint about harassment and if you can stomach the fight use civil law to chase compensation. Their lawyers will always say that they only do what their clients instruct them to so you need to now exactly what they said to your shrink to gain the info they did. All of the emials will help prove a pattern whcihh will impress a civil court more than a criminal one based on probabilities and previous actions. If you cant get them sent to prison hit them in their wallet, that often hurts these people most.

[ericsbrother]

Whilst you are at it, contact you new police commissioner with a written compalint about all of the intimidation etc and ask him to review the matter.

[rightsforme]

any news on your result yet calamity

[steampowered]

Calamity, based on the information you posted I do not think there is enough to justify a harassment complaint... better to focus on the ET proceedings than on trying to get the police involved.

 

Phoning your psychiatrist is arguably improper conduct but is not illegal and is not harassment. The other side are entitled to take steps to verify your claim that you were ill. Your psychiatrist owes you a duty of confidentiality so he should not have said anything. Phoning you about the case and threatening various things (presumably an order for costs?) if you do not withdraw can be improper but is unlikely to constitute harassment: to the contrary, solicitors are supposed to tell you in advance if they intend to go for costs. The police are not going to get involved about stuff which is (unfortunately) a normal part of litigation, especially when the dispute is already with the Employment Tribunal.

 

Unfortunately litigation is not very nice. It is a game and you have to play it. Threats about costs, challenging your evidence and sending nasty letters to court are just part of the game. Do not allow yourself to get distract by the mindgames. If you do not want to speak to the other side's solicitors on the phone then just put the phone down.

 

You have referred to "identity theft", "fraud" and "nasty emails". If these are relevant to the ET proceedings they are probably fine. If they are not relevant to ET proceedings maybe they are harassment... but impossible to say without more details.

[Calamity1]

Thank you for the replies.

 

I can't go into everything now, partly because there are criminal investigations taking place because harassment went further than nasty letters I'm afraid.

 

I will do a further update at some point, but quick question:

 

I have received decision and in same week, further police evidence and a solicitor who has told me there has been at least one, if not two errors of law, as well as some strange leaps in conclusions.

 

I have been told I should appeal because of this and I have 42 days to do so.

 

I have also been told that new evidence must be sent to the ET within 14 days. The 14 days is up tomorrow, but I have been advised to see a solicitor, or barrister, to write the appeal for me, which I should have the money for soon (how much do solicitors usually charge per hour?). So do I send the evidence today and do the appeal later, or do I send the new evidence with the appeal when it's drafted?

 

I am trying to save money by already having sorted out the discrepancies and the errors in law before seeing the solicitor, so it will be a couple more weeks before I am ready.

 

C

[Calamity1]

And what's the best way to find a decent ET solicitor?

[becky2585]

Calamity you may struggle to find a good solicitor who can read all the documents and draft an appeal all in one day, so be careful.

 

Depending on where you are in the country, trainees are usually from about £100 plus VAT per hour. More senior lawyers will be up to £250 plus VAT, although central London goes up to about the £400 plus VAT mark for the more senior types!

 

The Law Society website is a starting point for you.

[honeybee13]

And what's the best way to find a decent ET solicitor?

 

Hi. I would try the Law Society website that has a search facility where you can type in the speciality you're looking for and where you live so you can find local ones. Then you need to speak to them on the phone or in an initial interview that should be free, to see if you feel you can work with them.

 

But you already seem to have a lawyer on board. Can you use them?

 

HB

[Calamity1]

Thank you becky2585 and honeybee13.

 

The solicitor I saw, was through a free legal advice centre and as luck would have it, a senior and experienced ET solicitor.

 

He was only allowed to spend a certain amount of time with me, so went through the findings and pointed out two major errors and some other little bits.

 

He said because error of law actually in writing, it stands a chance. He also said, if I can, get someone legal to check my appeal first. Is this because I am supposed to use certain legal words?

 

I think moneywise it would have to be a trainee.

 

Do I send the new evidence now, or with the appeal? I didn't have the evidence when I saw the solicitor so couldn't ask him.

 

C

[caro]

You cannot be late with timescales. Suggest you submit evidence along with a covering letter saying you are in the process of getting your appeal drafted.

 

I understand timescales are very strict unless you can provide a good reason for lateness so suggest you take it in person if possible.

[Calamity1]

Thank you caro.

 

I have medical appointments tomorrow, but I understand I can email it, so will do that, as I get a receipt at the same time.

 

C

[caro]

Brill.

[Calamity1]

Thank you

[Pusillanimous]

Yes, clearly mark your email, 'Application for a Review', citing the new evidence. At this stage you don't need to produce it just yet, just describe it. Remember to state you have copied it to the other party. Needs to be sent by midnight.

[steampowered]

I think you are getting confused between reviews and appeals. They are two separate things. Appeals are issued to the Employment Appeal Tribunal and are subject to the 42 day time limit; applications for review are issued to the Tribunal which heard the case. Please review this blog post which explains the difference: http://etclaims.co.uk/2010/07/new-evidence-after-tribunal/

 

You generally cannot provide new evidence in an appeal. If you want to introduce new evidence, you need to apply for a review. For a review you should apply to the Employment Tribunal Office which heard the original case together with an explanation of why the new evidence should affect the result of the original hearing (and a copy of the new evidence if possible).

 

There is a 14 day deadline for reviews so you are out of time. However, this deadline may be extended at the discretion of the Tribunal Chairperson. I suggest you get your application for review in ASAP and accompany with an explanation of why it would be fair for the 14 day deadline to be extended in this case. Please review Rules 34 to 36 of the Rules here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/1861/schedule/1/made.

 

If you think the Tribunal made an error of law, then you need to appeal to the Employment Appeal Tribunal. Deadline for doing this is generally 42 days from the date of the decision.

 

Appeals are a completely separate thing to reviews, so your review application and appeal application need to be free-standing applications. Reviews of new evidence are heard by the original Employment Tribunal; appeals are heard by the EAT. Hope this clarifies?