Help With Holiday Let - Claim issued ***SUCCESS***

[nosnibor]

Hi Mike

LA acts on behalf of the property owner.

[Mike_hawk]

I think i'd be pressing for disclosure of the contract between the 2 parties. It's possible the LA has no locus in the matter beyond its service/admin fee (presumably retained within the deposit).

[nosnibor]

Hi Mike,

 

That’s the great thing about this site, many heads are better than one particularly if the “one” is mine:smile:

 

I think I can see were you are coming from with this, if they have not paid the property owner they have no loss so no cause of action against me?

 

Interestingly in their initial threatening letter they state they will pursue me for the outstanding balance of the rental as they claim it is their policy to pay the property owner in full immediately upon receipt of a booking/deposit.

I thought at the time this sounded a little dubious as apart from anything else it would require an enormous cash flow.

 

As usual I have some questions.

 

As I have already sent my defence can I still raise this or have I missed the boat?

 

If I can raise this how would I do so? my knowledge of this is limited to what I have read on the site, I have seen references to requesting information from a claimant under CPR rules, but in truth I don’t really understand this.

 

Many thanks

Nosnibor

[Mike_hawk]

Had a brief look at your defence and you have referenced the t's & c's along with the fairness aspect so it wouldnt be a giant leap to bring the third party contract and possibly UTCCR into play later in proceedings.

 

Simplest way forward would be to ask it for a copy of the contract between it and the owner, or perhaps ask a friend to make an enquiry regarding letting their own property so that you have sight of its current terms.

 

Alternatively you could request within the AQ with an explanatory note for the court in section G [i think], if that fails you still have the an option to apply for disclosure within an N244 although a fee would be payable.

 

If it were me I'd want sight of its actual loss, it may be correct in that it settled the full amount with the property owner but until the contract is disclosed or a record of the transaction its a little up in the air.

[steampowered]

Its a good point. Write to them asking them to confirm whether the underlying property owner has been paid or will be paid. If he has, ask them to provide proof of payment and the contract between the landlord and the lettings agency. These documents are clearly relevant to the letting agent's claim as they are necessary for the letting agent to prove its loss. If it is necessary to make a disclosure application to obtain these documents then you will be seeking an order that the letting agent pays costs for that application at the prevailing rate for Litigants in Person.

 

If they do provide these documents then you can apply to amend your defence. If they do not then I think leave the defence but mention it on the AQ, and make a formal application for disclosure if the documents are not forthcoming.

[nosnibor]

Hi,

 

Returned my AQ 12th February (deadline 25th)

 

Received letter from Northampton CC dated 12th March informing that the case was been transferred to my local CC (this was at my request) and that upon receipt judge would allocate track and give case management directions.

 

So it looks like it will have to be N24 (I am ok with fee) should I do this now or wait until I receive case management directions.

 

Thanks again for your help it is very much appreciated.

Nosnibor

[Mike_hawk]

I'd request the docs now and if nothing forthcoming file an N244 app with the court.

 

Case is low in quantum and fairly straightforward so would/should be referred to a cmc first at allocation. Bit of breathing space to get your ducks in a row

[nosnibor]

Does this look ok to send to the letting agents?

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I am writing regarding the legal action you are currently pursuing against me.

 

I wish to exercise my right to confirm that you do indeed have a justifiable cause of action and to that end require.

 

A copy of the contract which exists between yourselves and the owner of the property, in order to confirm that you are in fact liable to pay the owners the full amount of the rental in the event of a booking cancelation.

 

Substantive proof that any such payment has in fact been made.

 

 

Yours faithfully

Nosnibor

[AndyOrch]

They wont respond to that request or divulge until you get to Standard Disclosure assuming you make reference and question it in your defence /WS...that is a private agreement between them.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[steampowered]

As explained by andyorch, perhaps slightly jumping the gun to ask for this before you have case management directions, as those directions will presumably order disclosure. I would wait until you have the directions and then add the following wording:

 

"Please provide this information as soon as possible. If it is necessary to make a formal disclosure application to obtain these documents I will seek an Order that you pay the costs of that application; and if the documents are still not forthcoming I will be drawing the court's attention to the fact that you have not proved that you have suffered any loss."

[nosnibor]

To be honest I didn’t think there was much chance I would receive a reply to this letter.

 

I thought perhaps it was part of some required protocol to request this information from the claimant.

 

Unless someone posts to tell me differently I think I have done all I can for the present. I’ll just sit tight and wait to hear from the court.

[Mike_hawk]

I doubt it would respond, it was intended as a means to an end in that it provides you with a point of reference in constructing your witness evidence.

 

Did you consider the slightly leading approach of asking a friend to engage with it perhaps feigning interest in its letting service so you can gain sight of its terms without associating the request with yourself?

[nosnibor]

Just thought I would post a quick update, I was working away from home last week returned late last night to find the attached from my local court.

 

I won’t count any chickens but looks promising.

 

[steampowered]

Yes, it is good. I am very pleased to see this. It is great to see the courts starting to take missed deadlines and failure to file documents more seriously than they did in the past. Perhaps ring the court on 6 April to see if they have filed the AQ, if not then you can relax.

[nosnibor]

Baahh!! this is not what I was hoping to receive.

 

Now I am confused, and I don’t understand what I am required to do next.

 

Can anyone please help?

 

[unclebulgaria67]

So the claimant returned their allocation questionnaire and the judge wants you to mediate a settlement, using the court mediation service. Think you don't have much choice but to go down this route and see how it goes.

[nosnibor]

Well I’m back again,

 

As advised by the court we attempted mediation via the court service, on the advice of the mediator I made what I felt was a reasonable offer just to put this to bed as I really don’t need the hassle.

Unfortunately the amount the claimant was prepared to move was so small I would rather take my chances with the judge, so the attempt at mediation was unsuccessful.

 

I have now received notification from the court that the case has been listed for trial on the 26th July, however, I’m out of the country on holiday on that date. I telephone the court and was advised to write enclosing proof of my holiday booking and the judge would decide if the case could be adjourned ( I have done this)

 

I have scanned the letter from the court, but I have never done this before please could someone advise what I need to do next?

 

Many thanks

Nosnibor

 

[citizenB]

This thread is now in "General Legal Issues"

 

It is purely an administrative move.

[nosnibor]

Hi,

For everyone who took the time and trouble to contribute to this thread can I just say thanks and I thought I would give you a final update.

 

After my last post I contacted the court and had no trouble having them adjourn the case because of my holiday, the case was then relisted for the 13th September.

 

I followed the courts instructions and submitted my witness statement and supporting documentation with a copy to the claimant two weeks prior to the court date.

 

Then three days before the hearing a the claimant wrote to the court with a copy to myself stating that he would not be attending due to pressure of work and asking for an adjournment, then going on to make a submission which he asked the court to consider if an adjournment was not possible.

 

I know from reading other threads that the only time you don’t turn up for a scheduled hearing is when the court has formally told you not to do so, and so I made sure I was there as instructed.

 

The judge was clearly very unhappy that the claimant had not followed the courts instructions regarding timescales for submitting documentation, and also that the claimant’s submission was not in the correct format for a witness statement.

 

She then went on to say she would not allowing an adjournment but would be deciding the case on the day. She said she would give some consideration to the claimant’s submission but not as much as she would have done had he been in attendance.

 

Then after reading through my witness statement and supporting documentation said that she was fully in agreement that there was nothing within the claimant’s terms and conditions to support his claim against me and it was therefore dismissed.

Before I found CAG I would never have had the confidence to contest this claim and would very probably have allowed myself to be bullied into paying up, so thanks again to you all (I have made a small donation)

 

Nosnibor

[steampowered]

Very well done, delighted for you. This case goes to show that respecting the court's deadlines is important.

 

I shall change the name of your thread to reflect your success.

[honeybee13]

Yay, that's great news. Well done to you and all the people who advised you.

 

My best, HB

[dx100uk]

great news

 

dx

[Mike_hawk]

Excellent news nosnibor, well done on your persistence

[panther12]

they have also added that in such situations the court always finds in their favour and that they will also get an additional amount of up to £500 for their costs.

Nice one, well done. I guess they can't use that statement anymore