Paypal, Item Collection and iQOR

[3344556]

Hello,

 

I am in need of help and advice please.

 

Unfortunately, my problem is one that I have not read documented before - so am unsure how to proceed.

 

In a nutshell: an item was sold on ebay,monies received, it was collected, then after a payment review paypal takes monies away.

 

Now, I have recently received a letter from iQOR relating to this debt. However, my circumstances differ in the following way:

 

This was NOT a chargeback / refund / Buyer-instigated action; Paypal decided to refund the account holder for the amount as they did not respond to the payment review case (that Paypal opened).

 

and:

 

I managed to find another seller (with whom I contacted at the time of payment reviews), he had a CRR (Crime Reference Report) created and had his money back from Paypal. I am mentioned on this report.

 

After Paypal took my monies away, I mentioned this report to them and have been awaiting their response to my appeal on their decision ever since.

 

I have been told by them categorically that I should not repay the debt (or 'debt') until I have heard their outcome -, but now they have thrown this spanner in the works and I am unsure what to do.

 

Unfortunately, I also sold some other items via eBay while the payment review was being investigated and so have repayed some of the debt by Paypal seizing the funds from my account. However, I am wondering whether the amount that iQOR say I owe them can be classed as 'not acknowledged' as it is the amount remaining not the amount taken via paypal money in my account (i.e. not the original amount)?

 

My situation is a lot more complicated than this, but this is it in a nutshell.

 

Sorry for the badly worded post!

Edited October 27, 2012 by 3344556
Clarification

[unclebulgaria67]

Don't fully understand, but I would suggest that you contact Paypal to make a complaint and advise IQOR that Paypal have made a mistake, as the matter was already subject to a complaint investigation. Hopefully IQOR will put the matter on hold or pass the account back to Paypal.

 

It would help other posters respond, if you do a very basic flow chart.

 

Sold item on Ebay- item collected -payment received by me - etc etc.

 

The question is what has happened for Paypal to muck around as they have ?

[3344556]

Thank you for the reply.

 

Basically:

Item sold via eBay.

Paid for via Paypal, and buyer chose collection (was offered on the item listing).

Item handed over and I believed that was it.

A short while later, Paypal begin investigating the payment as they believe it was not authorised by the account holder.

The account holder never responded to the case and so Paypal reimbursed them for the full amount.

As it was collected, Paypal say I owe them this money as it is not covered via Seller Protection.

I have been disputing this with Paypal ever since and have provided them the CRN, but have heard no reply.

 

That is it, simply.

 

However, I have also had contact with Paypal saying they would contact me about the case / stop the collections / not do anything until the appeal is determined basically but I have heard nothing from them except for the 'Collections' e-mails and now this letter from iQOR.

 

Despite their word that I should do nothing until I have heard from them and that they would stop the collections until the outcome was determined.

 

I can add an image / flow chart later easily, if it would help.

 

Furthermore, I am presently unemployed and am curious if this could in any way help me with regards to the supposed 'debt'? I am, however, over 18.

Edited October 27, 2012 by 3344556
Corrected mistake

[Bazooka Boo]

I'm struggling to understand this too.

 

All in all iQor can't do a single thing and should just be ignored.

 

As for Paypal/ebay they can't do anything either, and certainly don't go near anything legal as they get ripped to shreds.

 

Who sold what? Who paid who? Who claimed the item or money hadn't been received?

[unclebulgaria67]

Unemployment makes no difference.

 

What is the story with the buyer of this item. Have you tried to contact them ? I am presuming the buyer may have used someone elses card, without their permission ?

[3344556]

 

 

The question is what has happened for Paypal to muck around as they have ?

 

From my research:

A Paypal account holder (either with his permission or not) had his account used on eBay to sell 'fake' items for over £3000 of money.

 

This money was then spent on collecting local items in the area, and paying for them with this money (I cannot prove this but it seems logical).

 

This account is then ceased to be used.

 

A while later the buyers of these 'fake' items complain and Paypal investigate; around this same time they do payment reviews on my and the other sellers' transactions.

 

We both lose our cases for seller protection and paypal say they return the money to the account holder, putting our accounts in negative balances.

 

Then the other seller files the [Police] report and gets his account back to zero; and I am left where I am presently.

 

It seems that this Paypal person's account was being used by (and I have found that) his 'friends' on Facebook collected my and the other sellers' item. Who of them has the item(s) I do not know.

 

Furthermore, they were then selling these items on Gumtree and later eBay for the same (around) amount as they paid - which would lead me to believe they were paid for with this 'stolen' money.

Edited October 27, 2012 by 3344556

[3344556]

Unemployment makes no difference.

 

What is the story with the buyer of this item. Have you tried to contact them ? I am presuming the buyer may have used someone elses card, without their permission ?

 

I have had no contact with the original account holder; only with Paypal regarding this case.

 

The 'account holder' (buyer) did not collect the item; his partner (friend on Facebook) did so instead.

 

I believe this is between myself and Paypal, rather than the Paypal account holder - especially since they have not responded to the cases nor used their ebay account since. Also, they did not do anything 'wrong' to me; Paypal are the ones who have taken my money here, without [real] cause for doing so in my opinion.

[unclebulgaria67]

You could phone the Action Fraud helpline for advice. http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/

 

Thing is that if you refunded Paypal, you would have been the victim of fraud and not Paypal.

[3344556]

I can give a lot more detail but do not wish to, for safety and fear for one and because it is quite in-depth and personal for another.

 

I am sorry for my incoherent responses, but it is quite hard to say in a simple way due to its seeming complexity.

 

It would appear person 'x's' paypal account was, one day, used to gather over £3000 of e-money. This was done by persons 'y and z'. Persons 'y and z' then spent this money on items on eBay for collection in the local area. Persons 'y and z' obtained these items and then proceeded to sell them on Gumtree, and later on eBay under a separate user name for (I presume) actual money this time.

 

I have found evidence linking persons 'x, y and z' all together as well, but my problem is with Paypal. The Police do not want to hear of my details as they say it is a civil matter, but I do not feel I owe Paypal this money as the buyer of my item has made no compliant; Paypal have decided to bring my 'debt' to them upon themselves in this case.

[3344556]

You could phone the Action Fraud helpline for advice.

 

.

 

This is what the Police advised me to do - but I have reported a case to them in the past and have heard no response. However, I could try them for advice.

 

I was going to send my details to the Ombudsman but do not know what help they could offer.

 

To me, this 'debt' is a creation of Paypal's doing and yet they are trying to get me to pay something they have effectively invented.

 

I am just unsure as to what my next step should be.

 

Paypal said to me they would stop this business until the appeal has been determined, yet they have passed my details to iQOR anyway and converted my 'debt' to Euros as well.

 

Thank you for your help unclebulgaria67

[unclebulgaria67]

This is what the Police advised me to do - but I have reported a case to them in the past and have heard no response. However, I could try them for advice.

 

I was going to send my details to the Ombudsman but do not know what help they could offer.

 

To me, this 'debt' is a creation of Paypal's doing and yet they are trying to get me to pay something they have effectively invented.

 

I am just unsure as to what my next step should be.

 

Paypal said to me they would stop this business until the appeal has been determined, yet they have passed my details to iQOR anyway and converted my 'debt' to Euros as well.

 

Thank you for your help unclebulgaria67

 

What you have to understand is that Paypal have not made an individual decision on your account to pass to IQOR. I suspect that they have done a system trawl and all accounts with a negative balance for a period of time, have been passed to IQOR.

 

If you inform the action fraud people of this fraud and tell Paypal that you are treating this matter as fraud, then they have to look into this. Ask Paypal to inform IQOR to stop chasing you.

[3344556]

What you have to understand is that Paypal have not made an individual decision on your account to pass to IQOR. I suspect that they have done a system trawl and all accounts with a negative balance for a period of time, have been passed to IQOR.

 

If you inform the action fraud people of this fraud and tell Paypal that you are treating this matter as fraud, then they have to look into this. Ask Paypal to inform IQOR to stop chasing you.

 

Thank you for your help and advice.

 

If I may add some further information:

Regarding your first point - this is exactly what I wanted to avoid and specifically called Paypal about at the end of September. The man I spoke to on the phone said they would put a stop to the 'collections', and that he would get his colleague to e-mail me as to why I have been waiting 4+ weeks on a decision on my appeal.

 

After a week had passed and no contact had been received nor any cessation of the 'collections' had taken place - I then sent them an e-mail, asking for them to again stop this while the case is being reviewed and reminding them of my conversation at the end of September.

 

The next thing I know - I receive this letter from iQOR - which I fully agree and understand with/from you that it is probably an automated thing. I am just annoyed that they have not had some kind of intervention, despite my attempts to make them do so.

 

Regarding your second point. I am not sure what can be achieved with contacting the Action fraud people? I have been into my local Police station and asked if they could simply copy the other report and make myself a 'primary victim', but the Police have washed their hands of these dealings. They say it is a civil matter, between Paypal and myself.

 

The Police even said to me: 'If they contact a DCA and take you to court, you just say to them 'prove it that I owe you this debt''.

 

The additional problem I have however, is that I believed once I handed Paypal this CRN, I, like the other seller, would receive my money back. Unfortunately, this has not happened. If I manage to get iQOR to write off this debt - it still leaves me out of money I am owed - as Paypal seized the money in my account from eBay sales that I had no chance to move over.

 

However, if I go to court - and I win, then I presume I would be almost guaranteed my money back or Paypal would be breaking the law as ruled by the Judge.

 

In my mind, Paypal have not gotten back to me because they are earning interest on this 'free money'. I believe, if it were to be a straight 'no' to my appeal, that would have happened shortly after, not exceeding 4+ weeks now.

 

I suppose I am asking what extra help Action Fraud may be able to give? I do not suppose there is any way they could give me a CRN to give to Paypal?

Edited October 28, 2012 by 3344556

[unclebulgaria67]

I think you are perhaps over reacting to the situation, which is understandable as most people would. But try to take a step back and look at this from a distance. At the moment it is Paypal that are out of pocket on your account, hence why IQOR are chasing you for the money. The debt is subject to a legitimate dispute, so at the moment, you don't owe this money. For the money to be owed by you, Paypal have to prove this is the case.

 

In this situation, all I would do is to report it to Action Fraud and advise Paypal plus IQOR that you have done this. Advise Paypal that it is up to them to look into the matter properly, as they previously promised they would do so and to write with details, once their investigation had been completed.

 

Then sit and wait for Paypal to write to you, with details of any investigation they have carried out.

[3344556]

Removed content.

Edited October 29, 2012 by 3344556

[unclebulgaria67]

I still stuggle to understand this. So Paypal are basically saying that there is no proof that the buyer received the item you were selling ? Therefore they had to refund the buyer, as they had no confirmation the transaction was complete ? Therefore you owe this money.

 

In this situation, perhaps you should try to contact the buyer to confirm they did receive the item from you. ( I realise that what you posted before about a possible s*cam, but if you don't try to make contract, you will never know)

[3344556]

Removed content.

Edited October 29, 2012 by 3344556

[unclebulgaria67]

Just contact the buyer, saying that Paypal have made a c*ck up and can they just confirm in writing that they received the item you sold them. Keep it simple, on the basis you don't know if there is a s*cam or not.

[3344556]

Just contact the buyer, saying that Paypal have made a c*ck up and can they just confirm in writing that they received the item you sold them. Keep it simple, on the basis you don't know if there is a s*cam or not.

 

Removed content.

Edited October 29, 2012 by 3344556

[3344556]

Removed content.

Edited October 29, 2012 by 3344556

[3344556]

Removed content.

Edited October 29, 2012 by 3344556

[unclebulgaria67]

After speaking to a friend, they suggest that I have an argument against Paypal on the basis that their 'terms and conditions' are indefensible and would (hopefully) not stand up in court.

 

They suggest I should take Court action against Paypal / the DCA, rather than they against me, as even if I lost, they would not be able to affect my credit rating.

 

They argue my case, would be a manner of: payment not proved to be unauthorised, yet money taken away anyway.

 

They argue Paypal's standing is indefensible.

 

You would have to study Paypals t&c's, which I presume would make you liable for the debt in the circumstances that have happened. I would suggest that you don't take Paypal on, but to continue the complaint with them. Also point out to them that you were under 18 when you signed up to Paypal and that you are willing to provide a copy of your birth certificate to confirm this.

 

If you can contact the buyer to get the proof they received the item, I would still do that.

 

What was the rough value of what you sold ?

[3344556]

Removed content.

Edited October 30, 2012 by 3344556