Summons for using a found freedom pass

[markl1987]

It seems wrong that the Chancellor, who deliberately and knowingly attempted to avoid paying the correct fare, pays a fine without

having to go to Court for a second offence, while you get a criminal conviction when you had no intention of travelling without the correct payment being made for your journey.

 

Lookinforinfo Yes the chancellor has done something wrong (in the eyes of a newspaper reporter) . . . its not going to help this person out in anyway so as much as you disagree with what Mr Chancellor has done, repeating it and mentioning it isnt going to help. Its a totally different case, different TOC and railway offences are looked at under strict liability, it doesnt matter what anyone else has done as they are not part of this prosecution. If you wish to read more info regarding the chancellor and his paid or unpaid fares then there is an open thread about this on the forum (which will give you a lot more info about the chancellors case) but you're really not helping the OP by mentioning it. As Nystagmite says, how is this relevant?

 

You didn't know that it was a Freedom pass, you thought it was an oyster cars just like yours. So when the card allowed you to enter, you thought that your fare had been paid-maybe not paid

by you, but there was no intent to travel for free. Had the Freedom pass not allowed entry, you had your own oyster card to make the payment which is what you did anyway. So it was

never your intention to avoid paying the fare as TFL allege.

 

Couldn't disagree more with you if I tried. The OP had their own oyster card with their own money on it that they would use to pay the fare on a normal day. On the day they were found to be using the freedom pass they were not using their own card, their own money and in fact if it was an oyster not a freedom pass they would have happily been spending someone else's money that day so they were intent on travelling without paying from their own money

 

HelenKH Im sure the more seasoned guys that are more familiar with TFL and prosecutions will be along soon to help with possible outcomes/costs etc. Regardless of whether you travelled, you attempted to use a pass that was not yours, I understand you say you did not know what but would it be any different to if you had found a standard oyster card loaded with someones annual season ticket? You would have also accessed an area that you have to hold a valid ticket to be in, your PAYG oyster was not valid at this time because you had use the found freedom pass to touch in.

 

I think the long and short of it is that you tried to use something you found, thinking that you were lucky enough to have found an oyster card and that it would be ok as you had previously lost cards yourself (you mention in your posts about this) and unfortunately you were caught with the freedom pass. Im not sure on what you will be looking at in terms of fine/costs etc but your best bet would be to go court, be open and honest, don't mention the chancellor issue as it is totally unrelated and as I said the more seasoned guys will be able to advise a bit further on the likely outcome

[markl1987]

And people also carry everything from money, credit cards etc to photos of their children in oyster card holders . . . regardless you would open it after picking it up off the floor and see what it was. You wouldn't just pick up a plastic wallet and go try it on an oyster reader just incase it was an oyster card with credit on.

[markl1987]

What excellent advice ..... If you want the court to pass it on to the CPS for a charge of theft. At least the OP can't go to prison (at least for a first offence) for fare dodging.

 

Advising her to admit taking the pass to use any value stored on it thinking its an Oyster pretty much demonstrates intent to permanently deprive misappropriated property .... S1 Theft Act 1968, up to 7 years imprisonment. Ace advice (not!)

 

Do that plus p*ss off the judge by bringing up the chancellor issue and it will be a great day in court, not the best bit of advice :/

Edited October 26, 2012 by markl1987

[markl1987]

I thought it was pretty self explanatory if you read post 35.

 

 

Is there anything particular you don't understand?

 

I think its quite clear you are after an argument and have nothing really that helpful to offer. Perhaps if you feel that what is being offered as advise and comments is, as you say, pathetic then you should take no further part in this thread.

[markl1987]

Helen, please listen to what OC has said and you need to get things like losing to cards of your own, same as finding £5 etc out of your mind and focus on what he has said. You have quoted above that it is your view that you did not intend to not pay the fare but OC has already explained how this will be viewed from a prosecutors point of view. In his reply it states "Ignore for a moment what type of pass it was and focus on the fact that it was not yours. Once you found the pass you could have done nothing with it, but you chose to attempt to use it to travel.

 

That action showed intent to use it and by so doing you would retain the value held on your own card to use another day, thereby gaining a pecuniary advantage by using someone elses card without their consent.

 

YOU would not have paid YOUR fare in accordance with the legislation. (Legal precedent - Case of Browning & Floyd. 1946)

 

Yet you have replied straight away with how you lost cards, finding £5 etc despite all the advice given so far.

 

I've been reading this thread with some frustration as you are being given sound advice by someone who is very experienced and knowledgeable on this subject and you keep referring back to your own view of how you were not intending to avoid payment. OC's last post is very clear and he is a prosecutor himself so he has a very strong idea of what will happen in court and in all honesty you don't seem to be taking in how serious this is and the advice you are being given.

 

Please take a couple of minutes, step back and read through OC's last post and the whole thread again as you are going to end up wasting all the advice and possibly end up in a very costly situation along with a very stressful time building up to your court date.

Edited November 15, 2012 by markl1987
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