company accountant is trying to make me personally liable for outstanding company debt

[suewell]

In the XXXXXXXXXX COUNTY COURT

 

Claim number XXXXXXXX

 

Between

 

Hillesden securities =CLAIMANT

 

and

 

johm – Defendant

 

DEFENCE

 

1. I xxxxxxxxx of xxxxxxxxxxxxx am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by Hillesden securities

 

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the claimants Particulars of Claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

3. The claimants Particulars of Claim are vague and fail to disclose any cause of action, they appear to be an abuse of the process in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the civil procedure rules.

 

4. No documents supporting the claim in the particulars have been offered nor have any dates of agreement been stated which the defendant needs to establish what agreement it is that this action is based upon and so the claimant's claim appears without merit.

 

5. As a result, the claim as pleaded does not contain sufficient particulars to permit me to file a properly particularised and pleaded defence. I am at a disadvantage to respond to this claim and to allow me to properly respond to the claim.

 

6. It is denied that I have entered into an agreement with the Claimant

Hillesden securities.

7. If, which is not admitted, such an agreement exists the precise terms and date of any such agreement are not admitted. I do not have in my possession any such agreement and am not therefore able to comment thereon. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the date and terms of such agreement.

 

8. It is averred that if any agreement did exist that the aforesaid agreement would be a regulated agreement within the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("the Act"). It is not admitted that any alleged Agreement is enforceable within the terms of the Act. As I do not have a copy of the said agreement the Claimant is put to strict proof that the aforesaid agreement was properly executed and has been enforceable at all times since its’ inception.

 

9. It is denied that I am in breach of the alleged agreement in that I allegedly failed to make payments to the claimant.

 

10. It is averred that if the alleged agreement is subject to the Act, before proceedings may be commenced the Claimant must have served myself with a valid Default Notice complying with the provisions of Sections 87 and 88 of the Act and the Regulations made subsequent to that Act. It is not admitted that any valid Default Notice was ever served upon me and the Claimant is put to strict proof.

 

11. It is denied that I have failed to respond to demands for payment sent by the claimant and/or its agents. The Claimant is put to strict proof that any such demands have sent to me by the claimant.

 

12 Further and in the alternative if, which is not admitted, an enforceable agreement is in existence, it is not admitted that any or all of the monies claimed are lawfully owing. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to how the sum claimed has been calculated and as to how the sum claimed is lawfully owing.

 

13 Further, it is denied that any alleged contractual account charges and any interest applied thereon which make up any part of the sum claimed are lawfully owing in that it is averred that these sums would have been claimed pursuant to an unfair contract term and in addition are in breach of the general law.

 

14 It is averred that any account charges that are claimed are in breach of the common law in that they are a penalty and that they do not reflect any actual loss or the true extent of any costs incurred by the Claimant and are therefore void.

 

15 Further and in any event it is averred that any clause of the alleged agreement under which the account charges are claimed is an Unfair Term contrary to The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and, by virtue of Regulation 8(2), "shall not be binding on the consumer". Any such contractual terms are therefore void

 

16 Without admission that any cause of action is shown by the Claimant it is denied that I am indebted to the Claimant as alleged or at all.

 

AND the Defendant

 

Seeks an order that the Claimant’s action is struck out or otherwise is dismissed on the grounds that any claim cannot succeed.

Alternatively if the court decides not to strike out the Claimant’s case, it is requested that the court orders full disclosure of the requested documents pursuant to the civil procedure Rules.

The Defendant respectfully asks the permission of the court to amend this defence if or when the Claimant provides full disclosure of the requested documents and allows inspection of the original documents.

 

Statement of Truth

I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true.

 

Signed

 

xxxxxxx

Defendant

 

hi there I would really apreciate your help,

have been searching the web for hours and came across this reply for the above case,

it is similar as my case excepting,

the CCJ is from the now struck off company who has now decided to try to claim back the money from me personally for two limited companies, the 2nd company

 

I closed in 7/3/12 on a DOS1,

the accountant conatacted companies house and told them there was no debt owning to them,

as I presume she thought she would have more luck with me,( although I would presume it would automatically

have been a tax right off anyway for her so I think this is a personal response)

 

She has also sighted interest on the claim, there was no contract for either the companies or personal,

and no personal liability order signed, there was no letter of engagement either.

 

Would I therfore be able to use the above and just fill in the balnks too, the N149 has to be returned by 19/3/2012....

There is a slight problem of mixing business with friendship here, so I sought of understand her motives. hopeing you can help Suewell

Edited March 7, 2012 by citizenB

[suewell]

this is my first post so will keep it brief as possible

 

 

I recieved a claim for for a CCJ for Newport county court,

 

 

I have since responded and disputed the claim in full background

 

 

I opened a company in 2000 as director I employed an accountant

the business did not trade for the last 6 years and was struck off in 2011.

 

 

The accountant company provided no contract,

letters of engagement or asked for personal liability.

 

 

In 2007 I approached the same accounting company again as director for a second company that was trading for two years,

needless to say with the downturn in the economy and my pesonal situation I have just had to apply for a DS01 to stop the company being listed.

 

 

The accountant was approached and notified of my attentions, told Compnaies House of the second cloure

and informed them the company had no debt with them.

 

 

Then I recieved the CCJ notification through the post

 

 

I am at a loss how to prove this is not a personal debt.

 

 

The work completed was only for the company,

never personal tax returns as I was PAYE to the company

 

 

Any help or advice would be greatfully recieved as I now Have to respond with a N149 Allocations Questionaire and have no idea of response

 

 

, I have till the 19/3/2012 to return.in anticipation of help, thank you

this keeps making the post a block and I dont know how to fix it

Edited March 7, 2012 by suewell

[citizenB]

Whenever using a defence that has been produced for someone else, no matter how close you think it might be to your own case. Do make absolutely certain. Check every point to ensure that it does serve your interests.

 

If you have any questions then just ask .. someone is usually around to answer them

 

When do you need to have your defence submitted by ?

 

Do you have all the information you require, have you made any requests via CPR 31.14 and CPR 18 ?

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?341253-Re-suewell-v-Hillesden

 

suewell, I have started a thread of your own - please click on the above link to find it

[suewell]

I

I made an informal request for contracts, the sole accountant siad it is verbal, I also requested a personal liability undertaking and a letter of engagement, nothing has been sent except an email reiterating it was verbal

[suewell]

I have since found out about the CPR 31.14 but did not know if it applied to me

[suewell]

sorry posting this individually as they seem to merge into block with no punctuation, defence has to be back by the 19th march 2012

[citizenB]

I think you might be asked for more information regarding the history of this situation, it isnt quite clear what type of agreement etc.

[suewell]

the accountant for my two companies is taking me to court for 5k, she claims the debt is personal and not for work completed for the company, one compnay struck off in 2011 and one I applied for a DS01 for dissolution which happend on the 7th march 2012.

 

• I never signed contacts,
  
• never had a letter of engagement
  
• never accepted personal liability for the debt.
  

I have returned the first form to the court claiming the debt is not mine and the N149 turned up asking for proof.

 

1. I have since had a personal letter from her ( since she applied for the CCJ) slatting me pesonally
   
2. the invoices she sent do not tally with the charges put in front of the small claims court
   
3. all letters were addressed to XXXX suewell with company name in brackets so too all invoices
   
4. on the claim form she has written her name and company the same way
   

Im at a loss how to proceed.

 

Any help would be welcomed

[citizenB]

Have moved you to the Legal issues forums as this appears to be in connection with a court claim.

 

You need to let us know more about this.

 

What is the claim actually for.. it will tell you on the claim form that you received originally.

 

What defence have you entered.

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?250747-help-with-n149-please&highlight=N149

 

You should be able to find some help completing the N149 from the link above. If not, then do a search for N149 - top right hand corner of the screen.

[AndyOrch]

On the claim form Sue is it just your name or company name?

 

Andy

[suewell]

the claim is for accountancy fees and interest as shown there are 10 invoices (enclosed with the form) that remain unpaid over 2009-11 as she broke it down into different catagories, PAYE, Company returns, I acknowledged the claim and disputed that I owed any of the claim, I put in the box that the XXXX was employed as my role os company director to do work for XXXX company and that the company was now 'struck off' and that the second company was now await dissolution under the DS01 form. the amounts are for £4684.76 for the fees and £315.24 interest.

 

All work undertaken was soley for the company, returns PAYE (I was paid PAYE), I had put so much personal money into the companies I could not sustain it any longer as it wiped me out.

 

The accountant was contacted by Companies House and told them she did not want to register the debt as a compnay debt as I was responsible. (in her letter)

 

I have since had the most diplorable letter from her, going on about my finances for the last 6 yrs ~ holidays, marraige, she even sys she feels my husband is responisble for the debt too, but that she cant do anything about that becase the contract ws verbally with me.

 

She is relying on verbal contract alone. I unfortunately only have correspondence dating back to 2009/10 emails were wipped through three moves and a computer crash.

 

I just dont know what to put in the N149 Allocations Questionair. any help greatly appreciated

[AndyOrch]

Take a read here Sue it explains claims against dissolved companies :-

Help!! Where do I stand when someone is trying to claim money

 

Regards

 

Andy

[suewell]

the thing is I dont know how to word the response, and I dont want to make it sound in the slightest like i would take liablility for the debt, I asked her for a breakdown of the fees and for a copy of the contract, letter of engagement, but she says it was all verbal, replying to the N149 the pinicle point of this case so do I deny that there was a verbal contrat between us, or try to show the contract between the compnies and the accountant or just point out that the companies have gone again, thank you for replying andy.

[suewell]

forgot to say the claim form is just in my name Andy

[AndyOrch]

The N149 is quite simple to complete with mostly tick boxes, only the " other " section is were you need to be careful with your response.

By its completion you are not admitting liability, by not completing it you are allowing the Claimant to gain the upper hand and your defence being struck out.

Could you please expand on the defence you have submitted, I am very surprised the Claimant as responded to your defence and allowed AQs to be released.

 

Andy

[suewell]

In my response: that the XXX company was started in july 2000, in may 2001 in my capasity as company director ask the accountant to take on the company accounts. In 2007 I again in my compacity as company director aproached her about the accounts for the second company. the first compnay was struck off in Novemeber 2011, the second due to be struck off on 7th march 2012.

 

the contact existed between the accountant and the company and not myself.

 

 

In subsequent letters, I have asked her to produce contract or agreements, which she has not. Do I need to do this formally.

[AndyOrch]

She knows she cant make a claim against a dissolved company so she goes for you personally.I assume you copied her the DS01 ? Verbal agreements are not worth a dot.Its simply here say.

You can expand and request documentation within the AQ at " other " If you could put up the P.O.C verbatim to check to precise statement of case would be helpful.Is your IP aware of this claim?

What date must you return your AQ by?

 

Andy

[suewell]

Andy sorry Im useless with this mainly because my brian is mashed with worry, what is the P.O.C, must return by the 19th March

[AndyOrch]

P.O.C =Particulars of Claim.

 

Plenty of time to prepare the AQ then, so relax.

 

Andy

[suewell]

In my capacity as Company Director of CxxxxxxLtd I approached xxxxxx 17th May 2001 to deal with the company accounts , there was no contract sent to Crxxx Ltd to date and no Personal Guarantee of Liability was given to xxxxx for any debt incurred by the company and she never requested any. After Taxx axxw was Incorporated, I then at a later date approached xxxxx to act as Accountant for that Taxxx xxw Ltd also in my capacity as company Director and she agreed but no contract was forthcoming from xxxxx for this either.

Unfortunately xxxxxx Ltd was ‘’struck off’ and dissolved on the 18/10/2011due to lack of work and funding and it became impossible for the company to continue trading without accruing unnecessary debt, and I was advised by a Companies House representative to offer a form DS01 for closure of Txxxx Ltd which is now pending closure on the 7/03/2012 and informed xxxxxx of this fact. I have never accepted personal liability for any accountancy fees for either company.

 

this is my response, thought I had not saved it on the computer then !!

 

I have written to her, and had a nasty letter back, I was wondering if the mediation service would help me at all or whether that would be a bad route to take.

Edited March 9, 2012 by suewell

[AndyOrch]

Sue remove any names with the edit button

[suewell]

done Andy, after several atempts

[AndyOrch]

" have written to her, and had a nasty letter back, I was wondering if the mediation service would help me at all or whether that would be a bad route to take."

 

Shouldn't be necessary Sue, this is a vexatious claim and a deliberate miss leading of the Court.If you can get that P.o.C up over the weekend ( remove anything identifiable) and I will get back to you.

 

Sue I have to dash now but I will keep an eye open for your posts, in the meantime deep breath, relax and calm down.

 

Have a good weekend.

 

Regards

 

Andy