S21 issued, some advice please

[rcobbold]

Hi there,

 

My rent is due the 21st of every month, following my previous forum posts I have been issued an S21(4)(a) now on the 18/9/2012 and it ends next month on the 18/11/2012. I have just read that the dates can only be for one day before the rent or is this not true? And is the time frame correct by the landlord?

 

I owed three months rent and a fourth month on the 21st which will all be paid and correct on the 21st of this month (the previous months are all paid off) and I wish to continue staying on the property. I will keep paying my rent as per usual and once the notice runs out he can then get a court warrant but if I am all paid up-to-date what will happen, will I still be requested to leave the property as I doubt he will have a sensible conversation with me to continue rental agreement.

 

I understand he has 12 months to get the warrant also or have I read wrong? (the contract is periodic that the one?).

 

Thanks.

[mariner51]

Perhaps if you posted a link to your previous related thread we would have a fuller understanding as I can only find this post for your username.

A valid s21 remains enforceable for remainder of AST in force at time of service, or subs related SPT. It only becomes non-enforceable if a new AST is later signed or poss offered.

[Steve__M]

A S21(4)(a) should have "a date specified in the notice, being the last day of a period of the tenancy" so on the face of it, this notice looks invalid and could be ignored.

 

S21 notices are not affected by whether or not rent is paid. To evict for failure to pay rent on time, a Section 8 notice would be issued.

[rcobbold]

Hi there,

 

Apologies if this is the wrong forum.

 

My landlord has issued an S21 notice to a tenant in a shared property having informed me he had done which came in the form of recorded delivery which I signed for. The tenant in question has not come back to the house since I had signed for the delivery not knowing what it originally was (landlord verified he had sent one) so I have not given him the S21 meaning he does not know it exists.

 

I am unsure what to do here, do I explain to the landlord it has been signed for but tenant has not received it and is it valid when I have signed without tenants knowledge.

 

Neither myself nor the landlord can contact the tenant but he has items in his room still and the keys to the property.

 

Thank you,

 

Robert

[Steve__M]

What does the contract say with respect to the issuing of Section 21 notices?

[rcobbold]

The council currently has my AST so I am unable to check this but I previously had one issued which basically was just 2 months before they can take action.

[Steve__M]

If it comes down to it, it's all about proving it to a judge, and a judge would struggle to accept that the notice has been delivered in this case as there is evidence that it has *not* been delivered.

 

Sometimes the contract has specific wording about how notices should be issued (e.g. stating that notices should be posted by first class post). Following any such instructions may be better.

 

Alternatively, posting first class with a receipt would be another option.

[rcobbold]

It was sent via recorded delivery and has been unopened, the fact that it is unopened and the tenant has not been back (if I notify the landlord of this) means I am not in any trouble I hope?

 

Contract said the notice must be given in writing with a 2 months notice on the final day of something, so if it ends on X date they have 2 months I think (if this is correct as it was with mine).

[raydetinu]

Is it a joint tenancy, or do you occupy seperate parts of the house?

[rcobbold]

It is a separate tenancy - the letter sits unopened other than the sticker missing saying it was signed for.

[rcobbold]

Hi there,

 

Following an old post here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?368426-S21-issued-some-advice-please&p=4010997#post4010997 where the landlord had issued an S21 I have since then paid it all off but I am in 2 months arrears again until I get paid which we spoke about this week and he understood.

 

I have just received a text message saying he is going to take court action and need a little advice (I read on the procedures etc).

 

Basically my tenancy of 6 months started on March 21st 2012 and then 3 months on top of this was added so my tenancy was 9 months from March 21st 2012 - 21st December 2012.

 

Unfortunately I do not have a signed document or proof that he agreed the additional three months so he will tell the courts it is a periodic tenancy after the six months. What I want to know is with the initial 6 months and the issue date of my s21 being

I have been issued an S21(4)(a) now on the 18/9/2012 and it ends on month 18/11/2012.

 

Is the S21 first of all legal? And how should I proceed when he gets an accelerated claim considering I have police statements and council ones of his harassment to me during the issue of the S21/S8 which was paid off.

 

(Rent will be paid in a week or so but he is still proceeding with court)

[Lea_HTH]

In one of your other threads, you state you moved room. What was the date you moved room and began to pay the higher level of rent?

 

My suggestion would be that this post is added to the old thread (not the one you linked to in your post above), as there is a lot of detail within that thread that begs the question: why do you want to stay? In addition the way the AST information was given is also different - in the original thread it says it was 3 months, extended by a further four months to Sept - now you're saying it was 6 months extended for an additional 3 months. Which is it?

 

Given all the issues raised in your previous post, your LL is being a complete fool in not simply seeing a solicitor in order to evict you efficiently and quickly.

[rcobbold]

You are right, I have another tenants agreement next to me as she was posting something to the council and moved in the same date as me so I misread.

 

Mine was originally 3 months from 21st March then at the end extended another 3 months and is now on a rolling monthly due each month on the 21st. The S21 was issued on the 18/9/12 which is still 3 days before rent was due.

 

I explained the issue to my landlord previously and now and even informed him I will pay a late fee, however, both times he has been harassing me, unscrewing my door handle which I have proof of and disconnecting the internet which the entire house is entitled too in the monthly rent. I called the police to escort him from the house numerous times for threats, got the council involved etc too and as I originally agreed with him before he started that it was all paid off.

 

This time my contract for work came in late so I am behind on rent which he knew about and agreed to pay it with a fee and yet is filing for a court claim now regardless of the months rent up front when I will pay this off.

 

Previously he issued an S8 against me which I paid off so not sure if he needs another one of those and the S21 in question was issued 3 days before the rent was due which I am asking - is that legal giving the additional 3 months AST was updated to 21/9/12 and was not on a periodic tenancy then.

 

Sorry for the confusion!

[Lea_HTH]

Not interested in the extraneous information - just in the answers to the questions I asked: the most important of which is what date did you move into the new room and on what date did you start to pay the increased rent?

 

Further: what date was the s8 issued to you and on what grounds?

[rcobbold]

I moved in on the 18th and the rent was paid on the 21st as it always has been from £240 to £320 and no extra charge for the 2 days between.

 

S8: 8 weeks arrears on "Notice Seeking Possession of a Property Let on a Assured Tenancy or an Assured Agricultural Occupancy"

[Lea_HTH]

Moving into another room created a new tenancy agreement, with its subsequent rise in rent. Whilst you continue to pay rent on 21st, the tenancy is from 18th, which means the s21 is valid, but only once the first six months is up (i.e. tenancy started 18th of ____(which month?), and ends 17th of _____ (six months later).

 

Are you saying the LL issued a s8 notice on ground 8 alone? Or has he included grounds 10 and 11 as well?

[rcobbold]

This is a form he has printed off the internet and amended himself using only Ground 8 in section 3 of it (which grounds he is claiming) and the arrears for that S8 have been paid off - the current arrears are new from this S8.

 

So if I have moved into another room it means I am on another AST from the date I moved into this room and it is 6 months? He issued me a two months notice from the 18/9/12 to 18/11/12 in that S21 he sent me.

 

(Sorry if I am misunderstanding - I do have issues understanding things)

[Lea_HTH]

What EXACT date did you move rooms?

[rcobbold]

July 18th 2012 (5 months into my AST of 6 months) where rent increase occurred on 21st July 2012.

[Lea_HTH]

The s21 is not valid as it implies you have to move within the fixed term. If it was dated to end in January it would have been valid.

 

s8 is invalid if served on you whilst you lived in the other room.

[rcobbold]

OK thank you - I just spoke to someone before who helped me handle this and the information I have given is slightly off.

 

Agreement

 

First agreement: 21st March 2012 - 21st June 2012 (Original agreement was for three months.)

 

Updated verbally: 21st June - 21st September (Added a four month period not three which council and police have statements for this)

 

Moved bedroom: 18th July 2012 which was to increase rent of £80 on the 21st to continue and no new contract was spoken of just the increased rent.

 

Section 8 and Section 21 issued on 18th September 2012 giving two months notice and ONLY Ground 8 in the Section 8.

 

The above meaning even if verbal the council knows it was agreed on 4 months extra until 20th September 2012 (day before rent was due) and the S21 was issued on the 18th meaning it is invalid. The original S8 has been paid off and now I am in 2 months rent arrears which will be paid off shortly and I assume he will need to make another Section 8 claim for this new arrears as well as a new S21 with correct dates.

 

I am now on a periodic tenancy that is rolling over month by month with a months rent paid up front for my final month (when I choose this) and with that final rent payment it is when I have to give a 1 month notice.

[Lea_HTH]

Okay, sounds like you're asking for advice and then trying to contradict the correct advice you've been given. Your prerogative, but I am not wasting my time being repetitive.

[rcobbold]

I understand your help is not paid for and I appreciate it but I also explained that I have issues understanding things and difficulty in learning.

 

I am not undermining what you say at all I was simply saying that I spoke to the person who originally handled it before and they gave me the information I replied that it was 4 months extra not 3 and the dates.

 

Sorry if you took offence but that was not my intention at all.

[Lea_HTH]

I don't take offence, too much effort involved. I just don't like wasting my time.

 

If you have difficulty in understanding, having it written down ten times makes no difference to having it written once, as you simply have to read the same thing over and over again in order to gain understanding. What you posted doesn't change what I wrote, therefore it was contradictory.

 

Post back when/if you receive the claim form and the particulars of claim - there is a possibility from the information you have posted that the s8 claim is still valid.

 

But there is no point in speculation - so post back when you get the claim/PoC.

[mariner51]

Stick to this thread for all future updates related to this problem. You have 3 previous threads for this occupation since July 12.