Going to Court - V5, Opinion

[crisis]

Ok the story so far:

 

Sold car October 2012

Sent off V5 - Kept photocopy for records in case went missing.

 

Went missing - Letter from DVLA with fine etc January 2012

Sent letter to DVLA with copy confirming sent back in accordance with instruction.

 

Letter received back in March 2012, saying if no proof prior to February 2012 will fine take to court.

 

Sent response, confirming already sent enclosing copies of previous letter.

 

No response until yesterday, when received court summons for non sending of V5 back to DVLA.

 

Unfortunately I move house during this period and have misplaced the documentation and copies I sent back, so looking for advice on what to do next, court options are;

 

Guilty

Guilty with mittergating circumstances

Not Guilty

 

So what do I do, I misplaced the copy correspondence my stupid fault .

 

All opinions appreciated

[firstclassx]

Ok the story so far:

 

Sold car October 2012

Sent off V5 - Kept photocopy for records in case went missing.

 

Went missing - Letter from DVLA with fine etc January 2012

Sent letter to DVLA with copy confirming sent back in accordance with instruction.

 

Letter received back in March 2012, saying if no proof prior to February 2012 will fine take to court.

 

Sent response, confirming already sent enclosing copies of previous letter.

 

No response until yesterday, when received court summons for non sending of V5 back to DVLA.

 

Unfortunately I move house during this period and have misplaced the documentation and copies I sent back, so looking for advice on what to do next, court options are;

 

Guilty

Guilty with mittergating circumstances

Not Guilty

 

So what do I do, I misplaced the copy correspondence my stupid fault .

 

All opinions appreciated

 

Not Guilty as you sent it, and that is all that is lawfully required. It is for the DVLA to prove the contrary, i.e. that you didn't post it. How can they prove that?!

 

Interpretations Act 1978

 

7 References to service by post.

 

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Dates need amending Oct 2012 Jan 2012??

[crisis]

Sorry yes october 2011

 

Ok I have now been through 6 boxes of filing and have found just one item a letter from DVLA, it reads the following, (this was in response to to myself providing a copy of the v5 I had sent) Dated 20/03/2012@

 

......................

 

Thank you for your recent enquiry concerning the out of court settlement offered to you in respect of the motor vehicle mark xxxxxx for which a notification of keeper change has not been received

 

Although you have indicated that you are no longer the keeper of the vehicle, the department has not received notification of the. When the department is advised that the keeper of the vehicle has changed we sent an acknorledgement letter within 4 weeks of notification. It is a matter for you to pursue this this kletter. Details on this process can be found on the V5C. If you can provide an acknowledgement letter that was issued prior to the 20/02/2012 then no further action will be taken.

 

You now have opp etc etc.

 

............................

 

SO in their first paragraph they are saing a keeper change has not been receievd through I sent a copy along with a covering letter with the details. Why would they quote the date 20/02/12 for a letter prior to the 20/02/2012.....

 

Anyway after more and more, I am now looking to write the following letter as guided from other posting on here, any thoughts? also best to address too, the not guilty letter say the prosecutor / J Payton is named.

 

:::::

 

Dear the prosecutor

 

Thank you for your requistition letter dated 5th October 2012

 

I sold this car in October 2012, and mailed the V5 document as I have always done via 1st class post, I kept a photocopy for my records. I then received a letter from DVLA saying that somebody was applying to be the registered keeper of this vehicle and to ignore the letter if this was OK, I therefore ignored the letter.

 

I then received a letter I was being fined for failure to notify a change of registered keeper. I on this occasion, sent to yourselves a copy of the V5 that I had posted to yourselves 1st class. You acknowledged my letter on the 20/03/2012.

 

I have put below legal points of which I have followed.

 

The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002

 

“Change of keeper: registration document issued in Great Britain on or after 24th March 1997 and the new keeper not a vehicle trader

22. (2) The registered keeper of the vehicle -

(a) if the registration document issued in respect of the vehicle is in his possession, shall deliver to the new keeper that part of the document marked as the part which is to be given to the new keeper; and

 

(b) shall forthwith deliver the remainder of the registration document to the Secretary of State, duly completed to include the following -

(i) the name and address of the new keeper;

 

(ii) the date on which the vehicle was sold or transferred to the new keeper;

 

(iii) a declaration signed by the registered keeper that the details given in accordance with paragraph (i) are correct to the best of his knowledge and that the details given in accordance with paragraph (ii) are correct; and

 

(iv) a declaration signed by the new keeper that the details given in accordance with paragraphs (i) and (ii) are correct.”

Interpretation Act 1978

 

7 References to service by post

 

“Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.”

 

As I previously stated I used 1st class post to “deliver” the V5 document which complies with both regulations above.

 

The DVLA states that I have no defence because I did not receive confirmation from them. This confirmation letter from the DVLA is not a legal requirement.

 

As stated in Human Rights Act 1998, Schedule 1, Article 6, section 2

 

“Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law. "

 

I have no proof of posting the V5 document because I have never done so before. I also believe that I should not have to prove that I posted the V5 document and if this matter does indeed go to court it should be down to the DVLA to prove that I did not.

 

I look forward to receiving your comments on this matter

 

..................

 

All thoughts appreciated, unless I am particular lucky I would suggest the photocopy I had was lost in the move, or more likely in a box somewhere....

 

On a separate note has anyone ever completed a SAR request on DVLA, to see what they come up with?

[Buxtongooner]

Hi Crisis,

 

Stick to your guns and go to court. Do not waiver. I am in the same position. I am a serving Police Officer and fully intend to attend any court hearing. I am a few weeks behind you having had just a couple of letters stating " I have no defence" I have written to them again. Here is my letter. The chances are they will back down. However, a small amount of persons are taken to court - just as a prevention otherwise there would be no deterrent. Most people cant be bothered to fight it and pay the fine. That is what they rely on. Please let us know how you get on.

 

I refer to your your letters dated5/10/2012 and 6/10/2012 which you have sent to a previous address even though Ihave notified you twice of my new address. Although I have been advised NOT todisclose my defence should this matter go to court, as a matter of goodwill onmy part I have decided to. Hopefully this letter will resolve any issues andthe court proceedings will cease.

 

I sold this car in May 2012, to a friend who is now the legal keeper. Mypartner is a Police Officer with more than 25 years’ service and is well awareof the legal requirements to inform the DVLA of the new keeper details. Hefilled out the V5, I signed it and he posted it via 1st class post (as I havealways done when selling a car – with no problems!). In August 2012 I receiveda letter saying that the new keeper was applying to be the registered keeper ofthis vehicle and to ignore the letter if this was OK. I did not ignore thisletter and sent a letter giving the new keeps details dated 30thAugust 2012. I received another letter stating that I was being fined forfailure to notify a change of registered keeper. Below are some legal points ofwhich I have followed.

 

The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002

 

“Change of keeper: registration document issued in Great Britain on or after24th March 1997 and the new keeper not a vehicle trader

22. (2) The registered keeper of the vehicle -

(a) if the registration document issued in respect of the vehicle is in hispossession, shall deliver to the new keeper that part of the document marked asthe part which is to be given to the new keeper; and

 

(b) shall forthwith deliver the remainder of the registration document to theSecretary of State, duly completed to include the following -

(i) the name and address of the new keeper;

 

(ii) the date on which the vehicle was sold or transferred to the new keeper;

 

(iii) a declaration signed by the registered keeper that the details given inaccordance with paragraph (i) are correct to the best of his knowledge and thatthe details given in accordance with paragraph (ii) are correct; and

 

(iv) a declaration signed by the new keeper that the details given inaccordance with paragraphs (i) and (ii) are correct.”

Interpretation Act 1978

 

7 References to service by post

 

“Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whetherthe expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any otherexpression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service isdeemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a lettercontaining the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have beeneffected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinarycourse of post.”

 

As I previously stated I used 1st class post to “deliver” the V5 document whichcomplies with both regulations above.

 

The DVLA states that I have no defence because I did not receive confirmationfrom them. This confirmation letter from the DVLA is not a legal requirement!

 

As stated in Human Rights Act 1998, Schedule 1, Article 6, section 2

 

“Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent untilproved guilty according to law. "

 

I have no proof of posting the V5 document. There never can be unless everyperson who handles the envelope has sight of its contents and signs acontinuity label. I also believe that I should not have to prove that I postedthe V5 document and if this matter does indeed go to court it should be down tothe DVLA to prove that I did not.

Please provide me with the following up todate statistics reference the following:

1. Number of individual letters received on a daily basis at all ofyour DVLA offices.

2. Number of recorded delivery letters received that contain V5change of keeper details and the policy regarding the signing of these letters.

3. Number of letters received 1st class royal maildelivery containing V5 change of keeper details.

4. Full details of the internal postal system between departmentswithin the DVLA.

5. Number of letters lost within the internal postal systemoperated by the DVLA.

6. Number of complaints received in relation to lostletters/documents handled by the DVLA.

7. Prosecution’s case that proves beyond reasonable doubt that theV5 was not posted.

8. CPS/Prosecution Authoritiesthreshold into this case – particularly “public interest”

9. Number of requests under the freedom of information Act requesting how many letters are lost internally by the DVLA.

10. How many similar cases have been referred to the Crown Court on appeal following succesful prosecutions at Magistrates/County Court

I look forward to receiving your commentsin relation to this matter. Please use the address as above.

Yours faithfully

Me

[holty1983]

Hi Crisis,

 

Stick to your guns and go to court. Do not waiver. I am in the same position. I am a serving Police Officer and fully intend to attend any court hearing. I am a few weeks behind you having had just a couple of letters stating " I have no defence" I have written to them again. Here is my letter. The chances are they will back down. However, a small amount of persons are taken to court - just as a prevention otherwise there would be no deterrent. Most people cant be bothered to fight it and pay the fine. That is what they rely on. Please let us know how you get on.

 

I refer to your your letters dated5/10/2012 and 6/10/2012 which you have sent to a previous address even though Ihave notified you twice of my new address. Although I have been advised NOT todisclose my defence should this matter go to court, as a matter of goodwill onmy part I have decided to. Hopefully this letter will resolve any issues andthe court proceedings will cease.

 

I sold this car in May 2012, to a friend who is now the legal keeper. Mypartner is a Police Officer with more than 25 years’ service and is well awareof the legal requirements to inform the DVLA of the new keeper details. Hefilled out the V5, I signed it and he posted it via 1st class post (as I havealways done when selling a car – with no problems!). In August 2012 I receiveda letter saying that the new keeper was applying to be the registered keeper ofthis vehicle and to ignore the letter if this was OK. I did not ignore thisletter and sent a letter giving the new keeps details dated 30thAugust 2012. I received another letter stating that I was being fined forfailure to notify a change of registered keeper. Below are some legal points ofwhich I have followed.

 

The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002

 

“Change of keeper: registration document issued in Great Britain on or after24th March 1997 and the new keeper not a vehicle trader

22. (2) The registered keeper of the vehicle -

(a) if the registration document issued in respect of the vehicle is in hispossession, shall deliver to the new keeper that part of the document marked asthe part which is to be given to the new keeper; and

 

(b) shall forthwith deliver the remainder of the registration document to theSecretary of State, duly completed to include the following -

(i) the name and address of the new keeper;

 

(ii) the date on which the vehicle was sold or transferred to the new keeper;

 

(iii) a declaration signed by the registered keeper that the details given inaccordance with paragraph (i) are correct to the best of his knowledge and thatthe details given in accordance with paragraph (ii) are correct; and

 

(iv) a declaration signed by the new keeper that the details given inaccordance with paragraphs (i) and (ii) are correct.”

Interpretation Act 1978

 

7 References to service by post

 

“Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whetherthe expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any otherexpression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service isdeemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a lettercontaining the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have beeneffected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinarycourse of post.”

 

As I previously stated I used 1st class post to “deliver” the V5 document whichcomplies with both regulations above.

 

The DVLA states that I have no defence because I did not receive confirmationfrom them. This confirmation letter from the DVLA is not a legal requirement!

 

As stated in Human Rights Act 1998, Schedule 1, Article 6, section 2

 

“Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent untilproved guilty according to law. "

 

I have no proof of posting the V5 document. There never can be unless everyperson who handles the envelope has sight of its contents and signs acontinuity label. I also believe that I should not have to prove that I postedthe V5 document and if this matter does indeed go to court it should be down tothe DVLA to prove that I did not.

Please provide me with the following up todate statistics reference the following:

1. Number of individual letters received on a daily basis at all ofyour DVLA offices.

2. Number of recorded delivery letters received that contain V5change of keeper details and the policy regarding the signing of these letters.

3. Number of letters received 1st class royal maildelivery containing V5 change of keeper details.

4. Full details of the internal postal system between departmentswithin the DVLA.

5. Number of letters lost within the internal postal systemoperated by the DVLA.

6. Number of complaints received in relation to lostletters/documents handled by the DVLA.

7. Prosecution’s case that proves beyond reasonable doubt that theV5 was not posted.

8. CPS/Prosecution Authoritiesthreshold into this case – particularly “public interest”

9. Number of requests under the freedom of information Act requesting how many letters are lost internally by the DVLA.

10. How many similar cases have been referred to the Crown Court on appeal following succesful prosecutions at Magistrates/County Court

I look forward to receiving your commentsin relation to this matter. Please use the address as above.

Yours faithfully

Me

 

 

 

This is work? I know it's an old post etc

[martin2006]

This is work? I know it's an old post etc

 

3 and a half years old yes and unlikely to get much response.

 

One can only assume it did work as the OP posted nothing more so you would assume it did the trick