Atos 'medical' next week, I don't know what to expect. - ** PLACED IN WRAG **

[DavidN]

Hello. I am very new to this site and have been called for an ATOS interview next week. Not sure what to expect after reading some of the posts around and my case seems slightly different.

 

Background

In June 2011 I celebrated my 63rd birthday and the government rewarded me by removing the funding (Regional Development Agency) that supported my job! I registered as unemployed and received JSA.

 

On New Years Eve Day 2011 I suffered a major heart attack at home. I was taken into hospital and had heart surgery. My wife notified JCP that I would not be able to attend my signing on session that week. After lengthy questioning JCP said that JSA was inappropriate and that I should apply for ESA.

 

I am still under treatment and have a sick note from my GP. The questions on the ATOS form in no way reflect my symptoms so I am at a loss really as to what to say at the interview. Can any-one help me please?

Edited September 24, 2012 by honeybee13
Editing in some spacing for ease of reading.

[della2]

The questions on the ATOS form in no way reflect my symptoms so I am at a loss really as to what to say at the interview. Can any-one help me please?

 

They are not supposed to. Your symptoms and diagnosis have nothing to do with your perceived ability to carry out some type of work.

 

You are being tested against a set of decriptors instead. Those decriptors offer a range of points. Get 15 in total and you pass (are too ill to work but not necessarilly to work in the voluntary sector)

Get less than 15 - go find a job!

 

They are questions like can you hold a pint carton of milk in one hand. Can you watch a TV soap for 30 mins. Can you take an imaginary dog for a walk. If you are claiming mobility problems, then you will be tested against being able to use an imaginary wheelchair.

 

Many people with very serious life threatening conditions are found fit for work every day.

 

My dad is 63 too, he had to retire early due to health problems. Yet the DWP still assess him and re-assess him every 6 months. Every time he fails and has to appeal to the Tribunal.

 

So far from late 2009, he has had 6 assessments for ESA, failed every one, and had 5 Trinunal hearings so far each one overturning the original decision.

Edited September 24, 2012 by della2

[osdset]

So far from late 2009, he has had 6 assessments for ESA, failed every one, and had 5 Trinunal hearings so far each one overturning the original decision.

This is fundamentally wrong, I know that ATOS do not get any feedback about tribunal outcomes, and it probably would not make a jot of difference anyway, the DWP should be brought to book over this, anyone in their right mind would realise that something is going seriously wrong at the assessments if the claimant continually wins on appeal, it's either incompetence or a deliberate strategy at attempting to deny benefit.

[honeybee13]

Hello DavidN and welcome to CAG.

 

I've edited some paragraphs into your post to make it easier to read. I've also started a new thread for you, please continue to post here.

 

There's a forum sticky about these assessments, written by leemack, and the sticky about appeals and tribunals has a link to the descriptors. I have to go out now, but if you can't find the yellow sticky threads on the forum front page, hopefully the guys will help you.

 

My best, HB

[della2]

This is fundamentally wrong, I know that ATOS do not get any feedback about tribunal outcomes, and it probably would not make a jot of difference anyway, the DWP should be brought to book over this, anyone in their right mind would realise that something is going seriously wrong at the assessments if the claimant continually wins on appeal, it's either incompetence or a deliberate strategy at attempting to deny benefit.

 

Yes I too think it is wrong. But they give dad a 6 month diagnosis period. Personally I think I know what the problem is - dad is 'old school', he doesn't really understand what the ESA assessment is looking for. He can be quite blunt, but is totally honest. Could he walk an imaginary dog? 'yes' he would say, 'I'd have a damn good try to do it'.

 

I think that he 'talks' himself out of ESA during the re-assessments. Only once did I go in with him - his first assessment, and he told me to 'shut up! I can answer for myself!'

So he goes in on his own now - saves the arguments.

 

However at the Tribunal, things are dealt with differently, they ask questions based on the medical evidence, not some imaginary dog or wheelchair or whether he can take a one pint carton of milk from the fridge to his cup of tea!

 

I think it is simply put that my dad just doesn't understand the assessment process at all and sees it purely as a chance to explain to someone what he can do despite his many problems, and not what he can't do.

 

Will he change, never! He's worse than my 5 year old.

[osdset]

Yes I too think it is wrong. But they give dad a 6 month diagnosis period. Personally I think I know what the problem is - dad is 'old school', he doesn't really understand what the ESA assessment is looking for. He can be quite blunt, but is totally honest. Could he walk an imaginary dog? 'yes' he would say, 'I'd have a damn good try to do it'.

 

I think that he 'talks' himself out of ESA during the re-assessments. Only once did I go in with him - his first assessment, and he told me to 'shut up! I can answer for myself!'

So he goes in on his own now - saves the arguments.

 

However at the Tribunal, things are dealt with differently, they ask questions based on the medical evidence, not some imaginary dog or wheelchair or whether he can take a one pint carton of milk from the fridge to his cup of tea!

 

I think it is simply put that my dad just doesn't understand the assessment process at all and sees it purely as a chance to explain to someone what he can do despite his many problems, and not what he can't do.

 

Will he change, never! He's worse than my 5 year old.

 

Hmmm, well your reply puts a different slant on the situation, if your dad is 'talking himself out' of a successful WCA then my rant against the DWP was unjustified (in this case at any rate!).

[Nystagmite]

Can you claim pension credit instead? This means no medical. I know the age has gone up to claim now.

[honeybee13]

Della, I'm thinking of moving your posts off this thread because it's about our newbie, DavidN. Do you have another thread running where your Dad's problems could be discussed please?

 

My best, HB

[della2]

Della, I'm thinking of moving your posts off this thread because it's about our newbie, DavidN. Do you have another thread running where your Dad's problems could be discussed please?

 

My best, HB

 

Hi Honey

 

If you think that it is best OK.

 

I was only trying to give the OP another view on a similar problem/similar age.

 

The ESA50 that the OP is talking about can be viewed in two ways. One as the OP has done and saying that very little applies to them and two looking at the descriptors and viewing it from that angle.

 

Then I only tried to point out that no matter what you put on the ESA50, in some cases, like my dad's, the claim never seems to get off the starting block because he is too honest and forthright.

[della2]

Hmmm, well your reply puts a different slant on the situation, if your dad is 'talking himself out' of a successful WCA then my rant against the DWP was unjustified (in this case at any rate!).

 

It seems I'm hijacking a post. When I say talking, I mean he just tells it as it is and doesn't see why he should have to manipulate his answers to fit in with some obscure reasoning (descriptors).

 

I would think that a lot of claimants come unstuck on this. They just hear a question from the assessor and answer it the best way that they can and like most 'old school' will play down their inabilities and play up their abilities (even if they can't but don't want to appear a complete cabbage!).

Anyhow no more from me on this thread.

[honeybee13]

Thank you for that, Della. I think a couple of your posts and one or two replies would be better on a bespoke thread for you, but I'm not planning to erase you from this thread completely.

 

But I think it can be offputting for new people when their thread starts talking about someone else's problems in detail. DavidN only has one post so far.

 

Do you have a suitable existing thread for the discussion about your Dad, or shall I start a new one please?

 

HB

[**Margaret**]

DavidN:

 

 

An award of employment and support allowance has zilch to do with your diagnosis and everything to do with satisfying the critera for the benefit. The final link in :honeybee13:'s guide to appeals brings up a useful booklet, which among other info, details said criteria. If you cannot perform a descriptor reliably and repeatedly you should be allocated points for not being able to do it. Some heart patients qualify for the award because of exceptional circumstances.

 

:leemack:'s sticky is an excellent guide to attending an Atos assessment. Easier said than done, but don't let the assessor rush you. Simply wait until s/he's finished typing before you answer the next question. As a recovering heart patient think about the effort involved in walking. How long could you stand at a packing bench/sit in front of a computer before needing to take a break?

 

You're entitled to have a chaperone with you, and should you wish it the chaperone can take notes. Atos transcriptions can be very creative which is why some of us are requesting audio recorded assessments.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

Edited September 24, 2012 by **Margaret**

[DavidN]

Many thanks to all of you for your constructive comments.

[della2]

Thank you for that, Della. I think a couple of your posts and one or two replies would be better on a bespoke thread for you, but I'm not planning to erase you from this thread completely.

 

But I think it can be offputting for new people when their thread starts talking about someone else's problems in detail. DavidN only has one post so far.

 

Do you have a suitable existing thread for the discussion about your Dad, or shall I start a new one please?

 

HB

 

Hi Honey

 

I do have a thread DLA v PIP which one should my dad claim? about my dad, but it was primarily to do with choosing DLA over PIP. I did make mention in that thread about his ESA problem as well, but it really got bogged down with the DLA/PIP situation.

 

Yes I can see that now, maybe I was wrong in drawing the attention of the OP to others in a similar sitaution.

 

I'll accept whatever you think is best and consider myself as being given a slap on the hand!!

[DavidN]

All, many thanks for the above. I may be coming across as 'a bit thick' here so please bear with me.As I said forum world is completely new to me. Can any-one point me in the direction of the above mentioned 'stickies' as I can;t seem to locate them.

Ta in anticipation.

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

Here's a link to leemack's sticky.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?287253-esa-medicals

 

HB

[honeybee13]

..and this link takes you to a document about DWP 'descriptors' which are the way the DWP judge if you're capable of work. If you can, bear them in mind when you're answering the questions. Page 17 onwards is probably the most valid part.

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@disabled/documents/digitalasset/dg_177366.pdf

 

HB

[DavidN]

Many thanks HB. I have downloaded the document and will go over it very carefully. I know now that I will fail the assessment but at 64 and suffering progressive heart decease who on earth is going to employ me? I know ESA is only £70. a week but that plus what 'savings' we have just about keeps the wolf from the door.

[debt4get]

dont give up yet, you may pass, you just never know.....obviously it is best to be prepared, as they say forewarned is forearmed....have a look at the 'how they train atos assessors...this will give you some idea of the problems we the sick face....

the questions they ask are nearly all asked to trap you...i.e. what tv programmes do you watch? the inference being if you watch tv you can sit for an hour!!!

do you use a pc?

do you walk the dog?

all designed to show that you CAN do something.....if you can move an empty cardboard box and press a button YOU ARE FIT for work...what a wonderful system....I have applied and applied for as many jobs as i can stating 'I can move an empty cardboard box and press a button'

[DavidN]

Completed the ATOS Assessment yesterday. Actually conducted by a Doctor! Not recorded and No mention of cardboard boxes or pressing buttons!!!! I did tell him at the outset that I didn't ask to be placed on ESA that was done at DWP assistance (fiddling the figures - again). Before we got to the cardboard stuff I told him that I couldn't mow the lawn or dig the garden and that I had trouble walking beyond 500 mtrs without a sit down. I didn't need an 'imaginary dog'. I had a real one! and yes I did take her for walks albeit short ones. We did the exercise stuff which I am doing anyway twice a week as part of my cardio rehab. I also told him that I wasn't suffering from any mental illness or physical disability - just progressive heart disease and ageism (64 yo). We now await the DWP letter saying I'm fit for work. What happens after that? Is it back to JSA or do they have something else we can try?

[osdset]

Is it back to JSA or do they have something else we can try?

Absolutely, you can appeal!

[DavidN]

Good morning all. The postie has just delivered two letters from DWP. I have been expecting some form of correspondence since the ATOS Assessment two weeks ago. On opening them my jaw dropped!!! First letter informs me that a sum of money relating to ESA has been paid into my bank account. I have just checked on-line and there it is in our account.The second letter is regarding the "Changes in the ESA Rates Payable" and states "we have looked at your claim again following a recent change" I can only assume that this is following the assessment. It follows on to say that "This is because of: a decision on your capability for work. You have been placed in the Work Related Activity Group. From 11 April 2012 will be £99:15 a week. We cannot pay you ESA from 1st January 21013 (Max 365 days). This increase has been backdated to April and I am assuming that that is the funding paid into our account.

I wasn't expecting this at all. When do I get the results of my assessment?

Can any-one shed any light on this. Have you had a similar experience? Also, after 1st January assuming I'm on the Group do I qualify for JSA - again?

Sorry to be so nieve I'm sure you probably think me 'thick' but I wasn't expecting an increase in benefit - far from it.

[**Margaret**]

: DavidN:

 

Wow! Atos have recommended to Work n Pensions that you've limited capability for work without any aggro or appeals. Wow! From your previous posts I wasn't expecting it either.

 

You already have the results of your assessment. If you want a copy of the ESA85 report written by the Atos assessor, it's available on request from your benefit delivery centre (address on the letters you've just received).

 

Payment of assessment rate/work related activity, employment n support allowance based on national insurance contributions, is time limited to one year. After that, low income may entitle you to income based employment n support allowance. Being in the work related activity group for employment n support allowance is completely separate from any future award of jobseekers allowance which would depend on your national insurance contributions record or low income. You're not naive, employment and support allowance has been described as the most complex benefit in history.

 

Congrats (if that's the right word) on your award, Margaret.

Edited October 11, 2012 by **Margaret**

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I'm very pleased for you and thank you for letting us know. I'll change your thread title.

 

My best, HB

[DavidN]

Thank you Margaret and HB. Perhaps it was because my assessment was done by a Doctor? AND the fact I didn't allow him to ask me stupid questions like boxes and buttons. Not to mention the 'imaginary' dog! I don't know? Anyway, had I not found this forum I don't think I would have achieved the same result. I have to say it's like dipping into the 'bank of Knowledge' surfing through the site. I will post future activity as and when it happens. Must now wait for further DWP instructions.

Best

David