Monument PBP refund - want to offset to a DCA & debt is SB'd too! (scotland) help please!

[slick132]

I think a written letter would be better, or maybe send a reminder if they haven't acknowledged your email within 14 days.

 

[delilahsahb]

Thanks Slick

I emailed them this afternoon and have contacted the Financial Ombudsman (like they told me to) so a complaint has now been raised with them. I am in arrears with Council Tax (not a lot) and have an agreement to pay through Sheriff Officers so i will see what happens now.

Will keep everybody updated when i hear anything

[delilahsahb]

Letter back from Monument today stating that as i applied for a refund of PBP i have admitted the debt and that they have no notes of me stating that the debt was ever Statute Barred.

 

I kind of expected this from them to be honest.

 

I have raised a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman and i also have a letter from Capquest stating they were looking into my claim of Statute Barred and i never heard any thing else from them

[slick132]

Hi DS,

 

Have they given a breakdown of the figures.

[delilahsahb]

Hi DS,

 

Have they given a breakdown of the figures.

 

No figures in their letter at all, just quoting my reasons why i think the money should come to me and theirs for it not. And it does state that this is a Final Response.

 

I filled in an online complaint form for Financial Ombudsman on Tuesday when i received their cheque but it hasnt been acknowledged yet. Thought i would try and find Capquests response to my stating account was statute barred and then phone them on Monday if i havent heard anything by then

[delilahsahb]

Hi all,

Quick update.

I have heard from the Financial Ombudsman this morning.

 

 

They say they have written to Monument to say that they are now involved and have asked me for any letters etc, i may have to help my case.

 

I have therefore sent them

Monuments Final Response where they say, I have acknowledged the debt by claiming PPI

and that they have no notices on my account to say it was statute barred (Scotland)

 

Capquests letter (i found it lol) saying they were looking into my claim that the account is Statute Barred (dated 3rd June)

 

Notice of Assignment to Arrow Global/Capquest (as Monument state they have the right to offset to a 3rd party in their final response)

 

and finally Monuments letter stating the amount due £2607.15 but where there is a debt on the account they will offset.

 

Just got to sit back and see what happens next i suppose

[dx100uk]

you ack'd the debt by claim ppi refund after the 5yrs period

the debt does not exist, its extinguished.

[delilahsahb]

you ack'd the debt by claim ppi refund after the 5yrs period

the debt does not exist, its extinguished.

 

Thats what i have put in my letter to the Financial Ombudsamn. I stressed that it is Scottish Law, the debt no longer exists so how can they pay it out to a 3rd party?? and how can i acknowledge an extinguished debt.

 

Just one question though DX.....i thought they couldnt offset to a 3rd party if the debt has been sold (not that it really matters as there is no debt to offset just a general question)

[dx100uk]

that's what I believe to be true yes

[delilahsahb]

Thank you

Will keep you all updated soon as i hear anymore

[slick132]

Hi DS,

 

Aside from the SB status of the account, they have no right in law to reduce the refund in respect of an account owned by a third party.

 

An FOS Adjudicator may not agree with this but an Ombudsman probably will.

 

[delilahsahb]

Hi DS,

 

Aside from the SB status of the account, they have no right in law to reduce the refund in respect of an account owned by a third party.

 

An FOS Adjudicator may not agree with this but an Ombudsman probably will.

 

 

Eventually found it on The Financial Ombudsman Online PPI Resource

 

But if the debt was sold on to a third party and it cannot be bought back, or the business chooses not to buy it back, we might take a slightly different approach. That is because the consumer does not owe the business money – it owes money to the third party that bought the debt instead. When selling the debt the business made a commercial decision and accepted an agreeable price for the debt. In those circumstances, we would usually tell the business to calculate the compensation as normal at the point it sold on the debt – and to pay all parts of the compensation to the consumer. The business should also consider the possibility that the consumer might have incurred further losses since the debt was sold on as a result of PPI being included on their debt

[slick132]

Hi DS,

 

An important factor in your case is that the PPI has already been calculated and repaid, so I do not see that the bank could repurchase the a/c to justify the Set Off that they've made.

 

Continue to fight this vigorously.

 

[delilahsahb]

Latest from the Financial Ombudsman (is this a standard response??)

 

your complaint about R. Raphael & Sons Plc (trading as Monument)

 

Thank you for contacting us. We have now asked the business to send us the information they have about this complaint so we can look into what has happened.

 

Once we receive this, one of our adjudicators can begin to investigate. They should be in touch within twelve weeks to introduce themselves and discuss the complaint in more detail. If you would like us to contact you using a different format or language, please let us know now

[slick132]

Hi DS,

 

Standard reply from FOS, giving the bank ages to respond !!

 

[delilahsahb]

Thanks Slick,

Thats what i thought myself although to be fair Monument have been fairly quick to respond to me so hopefully.....

 

I dont see how they can justify anything to the FOS though as its all in black and white in their response to me, they even mentioned Arrow Global in their response about the right to offset and i have all sent all the evidence. So we agree on the amount of ppi just not where it has went to.

 

All i can do is wait and see.....most annoying....i need to learn patience

[delilahsahb]

Email back from the financial ombudsman this morning

I’m an adjudicator at the Financial Ombudsman Service.

My role is to give an independent opinion on your complaint.

This means I’ll talk to you and the business, weigh up the facts of what has happened,

and then suggest a fair way to resolve the situation.

 

In summary,

my understanding of your complaint is that you feel you’ve been mis-sold the Payment Break Plan (PBP).

Monument refunded £2607.05 and said it would offset it against any outstanding balance.

But you feel the debt they’re referring to is statute barred under the Scottish legislation.

 

 

You also received a cheque for the balance of £215.77 from Monument, but would like more information about this.

 

 

This is a very brief outline of your complaint, but please let me know if there’s anything you feel is particularly important that you would like me to consider.

 

I appreciate your concerns as you reside in Scotland but the Financial Ombudsman Service cannot consider whether the business was statute barred.

That’s something the courts will need to consider.

We see whether the information was fair and reasonable in the circumstances,

so I’m unable to confirm the legality of the process Monument followed.

 

I understand that a refund has been made for the PBP payments you made.

A refund of the balance has also been paid.

So I’m unsure what you would like me to investigate, as I can’t investigate the legality under the Scottish Law.

 

 

I’ve contacted Monument to find out whether there’s any balance left to pay on your account.

I’ll let you know once I have this information.

 

 

If there’s no balance to pay then I’m not sure how I can help you further.

 

 

Please let me know if there’s anything that I’ve missed that you would like me to take into consideration.

If there’s nothing else then I can withdraw your complaint as I’m unsure what more Monument can do to resolve the complaint.

If you would like more information about the process under the Scottish Law,

it may be better to seek independent legal advice from the Claims Advice Bureau or similar organisations.

 

The time it will take to reach an outcome on your complaint depends on the issues involved and whether I need any more information from either side.

The reference number for your case is outlined above and I would be grateful if you could use this reference on anything you send to us in future.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

 

Please note I’m on annual leave from 24 December 2015 to 4 January 2016.

I’ll respond to any emails during this time upon my return.

 

This is my reply to them this morning

 

Thank you for getting back to me on this matter.

 

Firstly Monument sold the debt on to a 3rd Party, Arrow Global/Capquest.

 

 

My understanding of the Financial Ombudsman's take on this matter is as follows

and taken from the Financial Ombusdman advise website.

 

But if the debt was sold on to a third party and it cannot be bought back, or the business chooses not to buy it back,

we might take a slightly different approach.

 

 

That is because the consumer does not owe the business money

– it owes money to the third party that bought the debt instead.

 

 

When selling the debt the business made a commercial decision and accepted an agreeable price for the debt.

In those circumstances, we would usually tell the business to calculate the compensation as normal at the point it sold on the debt

– and to pay all parts of the compensation to the consumer.

 

 

The business should also consider the possibility that the consumer might have incurred further losses

since the debt was sold on as a result of PPI being included on their debt.

 

Given that Monument sold the debt onto Arrow Global there is no right to offset

and the monies due should have been paid to me in total.

 

As i also said,

the account is statute barred (although you say you cannot take this into consideration)

but it does mean that there is no debt exists on the account,

therefore again, the monies should have been paid to me.

 

Monument have taken the £2607.05 minus the £215 and paid this to Arrow Global to clear the debt on the account.

They had no right to do so going by Financial Ombudsman take on paying a Third Party.

 

Does that sound OK guys or should i have said more??

[dx100uk]

looks ok to me

 

I cant see why they cant simply accept the fact that the debt does not exist under Scottish law.

 

theres nothing there to get an outside opinion on.

it quite clear cut really.

 

the debt is over 5yrs old

you live in scotland

the debt is therefore extinguished and does not exist.

 

what is so complicated about that that the adj cannot understand.

 

me thinks you've a newby here.

 

give it one shot

 

then off to the ombs man himself..go up the chain.

 

dx

[delilahsahb]

Thanks DX, will see what this one comes back with and then i will take it further if needs be

[dx100uk]

see if slick wishes to comment first

[slick132]

Hi Delilah,

 

I think your reply is fine for now at this early stage.

 

I'm sure the Adjudicator will find the bank has acted fairly and reasonably, saying there was a debt outstanding and it has now been settled with the balance being paid to you.

 

Once they make their final decision, you'll be told you can appeal to an Ombudsman and that's what you should do. You'll complain that the bank had no legal right to pay the refund to a third party. You can ask the Ombudsman to confirm what law, regulation or statute the bank had to pay your refund to the third party.

 

In the meantime, you'll have to follow the process through until you get the Adjudicator's decision.

 

[delilahsahb]

Thats me just asked for it to be referred to an ombudsman guys.

The adjudicator sided with Monument so i have emailed back the following:

 

Thank you for your email. I would like an Ombudsman to take a look at this please.

 

My complaint is that the bank has no legal right to pay the refund to a third party.

And i wish to ask the Ombudsman to confirm what law, regulation or statute the bank had to pay my refund to the third party.

 

I would also like to re-iterate to an Ombudsman that this is a Statute Barred debt in Scotland which means that no debt exists.

 

It is really quite clear cut:

The debt is over 5 years old, i live in Scotland, therefore the debt is extinguished.

Your advise on your website re a company paying a third party is as follows:

 

But if the debt was sold on to a third party and it cannot be bought back, or the business chooses not to buy it back,

we might take a slightly different approach.

 

 

That is because the consumer does not owe the business money

– it owes money to the third party that bought the debt instead.

 

 

When selling the debt the business made a commercial decision and accepted an agreeable price for the debt.

In those circumstances, we would usually tell the business to calculate the compensation as normal at the point it sold on the debt

– and to pay all parts of the compensation to the consumer.

 

 

The business should also consider the possibility that the consumer might have incurred further losses

since the debt was sold on as a result of PPI being included on their debt.

 

I therefore would appreciate it if you could pass my complaint on to an Ombudsman

[delilahsahb]

I have copied and pasted the reply from the FOS, well the bit that matters.

 

I thought PBP was the same as PPI

so how can they treat it differently??

Am i missing something with this or have i just had a doughnut as an adjudicator??

 

Monument assigned your account to Arrow Global, a debt collection agency.

 

When Monument agreed to refund the PBP premiums and interest, there was still a balance outstanding on your account.

 

The factsheet Monument sent with its final response letter dated 16 October 2015 explained that the refund would be subject to any outstanding debt that had been assigned to a third party.

 

As there was still an outstanding balance with arrow Global at this time, Monument used the refund to reduce this, leaving a remaining

balance of £215.77.

 

I appreciate you feel that the debt that was transferred to Arrow Global should be statute barred as you reside in Scotland, but that’s not something that we can take into consideration.

 

I’ve taken into consideration your recent email, but our approach to PBP

cases stay the same and are considered differently in comparison to PPI complaints.

 

If you have an issue with the debt being statute barred then it would be best to seek independent legal advice on this matter as t appears to be something that the courts need to consider.

 

I understand that Monument has also refunded £215.77.

They have confirmed that there is no balance left to pay on your account.

 

For that reason I don’t feel there’s anything more I can ask Monument to do as I’m satisfied that they’ve acted fairly

[citizenB]

Is this from the Ombudsman proper, or still the Adjudicator ?

[delilahsahb]

Thats from the adjudicator Citizen B i have emailed him back yesterday which is below my last post to ask for the Ombudsman to deal with it