Caught using partner's student oyster on london bus - ** SETTLED **

[alexandra01]

Hi

I'm new to this and have been reading some similar situations and would like some help and advice.

 

My situation:

I picked up my partner's student oyster by accident one morning in a hurry thinking it was my oyster as both had same wallet.

 

 

I used it on a bus then had to change bus due to nature of journey.

I then noticed that it wasn't mine and had a fumble in my pocket to see if mine was there

which it was.

 

 

When the bus came, I got on and don't know what possessed me

but of course I did the studpid thing and touched in with his card.

 

 

Towards the end of my journey one of those ticket officers came on board

and asked to check my ticket so I touched his card on the machine.

 

 

Then she asked to see the photocard and not knowing what to say I said it didn't have a photo!

But of course I showed the card and it had his photo.

 

 

I told her it was my partner's but I had my own discounted card

and showed it to her, and told her his card was a yearly pass.

 

Next I received a letter from TFL stating that legal proceedings may be taken against me and if I had any comments to make.

 

 

in an attempt to salvage his card as he needed it

I wrote to TFL apologising that I had made a mistake and am sorry.

 

 

However I mentioned that I didn't realised I was using it which was a lie

but it was an attempt to get his card returned.

 

 

As this is the first time something like this happened

I didn't know that the card wouldn't be returned regardless.

 

Now I have received a court summons for October 2nd.

 

Alleged offence:

being a passenger on a public service vehicle operated on behalf of London bus services being used for the carriage of passengers at separate fares,

 

 

did use in relation to the journey a ticket which had been issued for use by another person on terms that it is not transferable.

 

 

Contrary to regulation 7(1)(b) of the public service vehicles regulations 1990 si no.

1020 and section 25(3) of the public passenger vehicles act 1981.

 

I do intend to plead guilty but weren't sure if its better to go and the same if absent.

 

Then I started searching the internet for some help

and came across this site and read about settling out of court.

 

Could someone please help and advise

and tell me if I will be able to settle out of court and how to do it?

 

Any comments and advice will be much appreciated.

[rebel11]

Hi alex

 

Welcome to CAG

 

The guys will be happy to advise as soon as they are available.

 

Please let us know how your problem has been resolved, it could help fellow Caggers.

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

The forum experts don't seem to be around at the moment, I hope they'll be along later.

 

TfL seem to be taking a hard line on fare evasion, according to what I've read here, but the guys here say that you can negotiate right up to the court date.

 

Have a read around this forum for similar cases, there are plenty of TfL ones.

 

If you do go to court, I believe it's better to attend and try to give a good impression to the magistrates, which can lessen the penalty for you.

 

My best, HB

[alexandra01]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

The forum experts don't seem to be around at the moment, I hope they'll be along later.

 

TfL seem to be taking a hard line on fare evasion, according to what I've read here, but the guys here say that you can negotiate right up to the court date.

 

Have a read around this forum for similar cases, there are plenty of TfL ones.

 

If you do go to court, I believe it's better to attend and try to give a good impression to the magistrates, which can lessen the penalty for you.

 

My best, HB

 

Thanks for that. Sorry couldn't reply straight away, had to cook for my kids and sort them out for bed as well!!! Then problem with the old computer...keep getting stuck and sticking!!!

So are there any one around who can give more advice?

[firstclassx]

Well, as you've stated, the law they which they use to prosecute people in court for bus fare evasion is Section 25 Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 and Section 7 The Public Service Vehicles (Conduct of Drivers, Inspectors, Conductors and Passengers) Regulations 1990, which authorises a (Level 3) fine of up to £1000. This would result in a criminal record.

 

The offence is:

 

7(1b) No passenger on a vehicle being used for the carriage of passengers at separate fares shall use any ticket which has been issued for use by another person on terms that it is not transferable.

 

I assume this is a strict liability offence. There doesn't appear to be any valid defence in law. As soon as you commit the offence, you are guilty.

 

Try and ring/email them, tell them you've learnt your lesson, a criminal record could affect your job etc, be open and honest with them and close by offering around £300 to settle out of court. If they do, get confirmation in writing. If you've been stopped before with a Penalty Fare/threat of prosecution whether on TfL bus/tube/train/tram/boat etc then you are probably wasting your time.

 

TfL will have regard to the following factors in favour of prosecution:

 

(a) Previous conviction for a relevant offence or where the offender has

committed a similar offence on any of Transport for London services.

(b) Refusal to heed an earlier Warning about a similar conduct.

© Offender has committed any of the offences of a serious nature as set

out in paragraph 5.1 of this policy.

(d) The offence occurred in an area or on a service known to occasion

high revenue loss to TfL.

 

(e) The offender has failed to pay for the service or failed to have sufficient

oyster card credit before boarding a relevant service

 

(f) The offender has unlawfully used or transferred a Freedom pass, Staff

Pass or other concessionary passes or travel documents issued to

named holders.

 

If that fails/not an option for you, plead guilty in person. Offer whatever mitigation and apologies you can.

 

Sentencing will probably be: £300-£500 fine, £100 costs, £15 Victim Surcharge, compensation amounting to the bus fare, say £2, and of course, the criminal record.

 

If you plead guilty by post, without mitigation, the fine could become higher by as much as 50%, but depends on the means form.

Edited August 29, 2012 by firstclassx

[alexandra01]

Thanks firstclassx for your advice! I will try email them like you suggest. The sentence is so steep my heart almost fell out! Now I have to think how to compose the email.....

Thanks again!

[firstclassx]

Thanks firstclassx for your advice! I will try email them like you suggest. The sentence is so steep my heart almost fell out! Now I have to think how to compose the email.....

Thanks again!

 

Just make it heartfelt. I'd personally advise to ring them, if they have given you a contact number. Some of the "please settle" mitigation emails I receive make me cringe, they are far too cheesy and don't really seem genuine. Most also add one or two digs in about being heavy-handed or rude inspectors etc. That doesn't go down well.

 

You know when you speak to someone whether they are genuine or not. Anyone can write an email.

[alexandra01]

I read somewhere that a letter maybe better?

The only contact numbers are on the 1st two letters from Tfl letting me know they may prosecute.

If I did call, will I have to ask for the prosecution manager whose name is printed on the court summons?

Thanks, really appreciate all this help.

[Old-CodJA]

I read somewhere that a letter maybe better?

The only contact numbers are on the 1st two letters from Tfl letting me know they may prosecute.

If I did call, will I have to ask for the prosecution manager whose name is printed on the court summons?

Thanks, really appreciate all this help.

 

I always advocate writing to make your request to settle.

 

This avoids the very occasional issues that may arise through misinterpretaition, or misunderstandings that may arise in a telephone call and leaves you with a tangible record of exactly what was said and when, complete with the confirmation of your signature.

 

Some prosecution managers and staff quite rightly in my view, will not make any off the cuff decision over the telephone. You may sometimes even have doubts that the person you are talking to on the telephone is the person who was reported.

 

In the 30-odd years I've been involved in these matters I can recall a good many examples of people ringing in and making claims, or comments that have been attributed to the person reported, because that's who the caller claimed to be, but it turned out otherwise in the fullness of time.

 

If the TOC do agree to settle by telephone that's a matter for them and good luck to you, but I suggest a well worded letter referring to the most important points that I have posted here many times in the past is something that can often be more effective

[iambilly]

Mate do not ever plead guilty! I did and it was the worst mistake of my life!

 

TFL are idiots and they don't oftent settle out of court, I tried emails, phone calls and letter but they were rude and unforgiving.

 

Do not plead guilty!

[firstclassx]

Mate do not ever plead guilty! I did and it was the worst mistake of my life!

 

TFL are idiots and they don't oftent settle out of court, I tried emails, phone calls and letter but they were rude and unforgiving.

 

Do not plead guilty!

 

As a public service duty, I have taken to dedicating my forum time to ensure that advice offered by "iambilly" is completely disregarded...You can read about his histronic fantasy world here.

 

Old-CodJA has offered the most appropriate course of action.

[alexandra01]

I would like to start by thanking everyone for their time and support and thanks to firstclass and OC for your advice.

I thought about calling but changed my mind in the end as I'm not very good talking. I sent a letter off last Friday apologising for my mistake and asked for the matter to be settled out of court. Over the weekend I was assuming going to court and I was trying to work out what time I needed to leave the house to get there in good time. Well, I received a reply this morning and they have given me the option to pay £250 to settle out of court. What a relief! I have never been to court before and don't really know what to expect. I really have to thank a site like this that gives help and advice to people in need of that. If I hadn't stumbled on this site I wouldn't know such a thing as out of court settlement existed! I feel very lucky and never again will I do a stupid thing like this again! Now I can concentrate on my childcare course and hopefully employment at the end of it. Thanks everyone again.

[alexandra01]

Mate do not ever plead guilty! I did and it was the worst mistake of my life!

 

TFL are idiots and they don't oftent settle out of court, I tried emails, phone calls and letter but they were rude and unforgiving.

 

Do not plead guilty!

 

Thanks for your concern. If I had to end up in court, I was definitely going to plead guilty! There is no point trying to wriggle out of something like this. I am not a good liar. If I start lying I would just dig the hole bigger and bigger and get into more trouble than already is! Thankfully I can settle out of court.

[firstclassx]

I would like to start by thanking everyone for their time and support and thanks to firstclass and OC for your advice.

I thought about calling but changed my mind in the end as I'm not very good talking. I sent a letter off last Friday apologising for my mistake and asked for the matter to be settled out of court. Over the weekend I was assuming going to court and I was trying to work out what time I needed to leave the house to get there in good time. Well, I received a reply this morning and they have given me the option to pay £250 to settle out of court. What a relief! I have never been to court before and don't really know what to expect. I really have to thank a site like this that gives help and advice to people in need of that. If I hadn't stumbled on this site I wouldn't know such a thing as out of court settlement existed! I feel very lucky and never again will I do a stupid thing like this again! Now I can concentrate on my childcare course and hopefully employment at the end of it. Thanks everyone again.

 

Great result considering the potential!

 

Again, goes to show that being polite, honest and courteous with a prosecuting authority is an absolute must if you have any chance of avoiding a criminal court appearance.

 

You must remember never to do anything like this again. I'm sure you know what will happen if you do!

[alexandra01]

That is definitely one thing that won't get repeated! It would be too irresponsible otherwise; I have 2 kids under the age of 7 to think about, and I don't want them to be taken away from me! Thanks again!

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

That's really good news for you, I'm pleased. Treat this as a lesson you've learned, move on with life and take care in the future. Thank you for letting us know too, all too often we don't hear the end result.

 

I'll alter your thread title.

 

My best, HB

[Old-CodJA]

That is definitely one thing that won't get repeated! It would be too irresponsible otherwise; I have 2 kids under the age of 7 to think about, and I don't want them to be taken away from me! Thanks again!

 

I am really glad that you got a result you are happy with. I have always advocated not admitting guilt if you don't believe that you have done anything wrong, but you will know exactly what you did or did not do and have acted accordingly in response.

 

It has been a very a costly lesson, but I am absolutely certain from your posts that you will never get caught out again. I'm pleased that you now have peace of mind and thank you for letting us know how it went.

 

 

Mate do not ever plead guilty! I did and it was the worst mistake of my life! TFL are idiots and they don't oftent settle out of court, I tried emails, phone calls and letter but they were rude and unforgiving.

 

 

Billy, what you seem to studiously avoid accepting is that you were guilty of the strict liability offence.

 

You asked for advice and you got it, time and time and time again.

 

You entered a 'guilty' plea because you were guilty of the charge laid.

 

You got credit for that plea and got a lesser fine than you would if you had entered a 'not guilty' plea and been convicted, as you surely would have been.

 

I'd be careful who you are calling 'Idiots' if I were you because it is clear that TfL staff didn't need to be too clever to catch, charge and convict you.

 

It's about time that you recognise that no matter how many threads you hijack, you are not going to change the minds of those who deal with this legislation daily and you are going to have an even harder job convincing a Crown Court that you have been hard done by.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Old-CodJA

[Rochell]

I would like to start by thanking everyone for their time and support and thanks to firstclass and OC for your advice.

I thought about calling but changed my mind in the end as I'm not very good talking. I sent a letter off last Friday apologising for my mistake and asked for the matter to be settled out of court. Over the weekend I was assuming going to court and I was trying to work out what time I needed to leave the house to get there in good time. Well, I received a reply this morning and they have given me the option to pay £250 to settle out of court. What a relief! I have never been to court before and don't really know what to expect. I really have to thank a site like this that gives help and advice to people in need of that. If I hadn't stumbled on this site I wouldn't know such a thing as out of court settlement existed! I feel very lucky and never again will I do a stupid thing like this again! Now I can concentrate on my childcare course and hopefully employment at the end of it. Thanks everyone again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi can you please advice me on how to write the letter....I am going through the same situation... Plzzzz

[honeybee13]

Hi can you please advice me on how to write the letter....I am going through the same situation... Plzzzz

 

Rochell, you're posting on old threads and may not get replies. I've started a new thread for you, please tell us your story on there.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?454105-My-husband-used-my-Oyster-card-help-needed%281-Viewing%29-nbsp

 

HB