Winnie vs Lloyds Tsb

[winnie123]

Hi Guys

 

I am in the process of claiming back charges on my old HSBC account and have now started to look at my joint account with Lloyds Tsb. I am also helping my father in law who has been with Lloyds Tsb for more than 6 yrs he has given them 38 days and only has 2 yrs worth of statments. Going through the statments I am confused about what I can and cannot claim going through the statments can anyone offer some advice pls. Also they have sent lots of pages through which I don't understand and pages with charts on detailing the charges what do I go by the statments or there charts of charges ?

[lucid]

Hi,

 

I haven't heard of anybody being sent charts of charges so I don't know why they'd have sent them. It would probably be best for you to go through the statements just in case the charts don't represent the same amount of charges. The charges you are looking out for are:

 

Overdraft Excess Fee

Unpaid Direct Debit

Unpaid Standing Order

Unpaid Cheque

 

You can add all of these charges into your claim. Depending on your account you may also have been charged Overdraft Usage Fees. I've never encountered these fees but have read elsewhere that they are appleid to some accounts when the overdraft is used. Some people say that you can claim the fees back and others say that you can't because it's a service. If these fees do appear on your statement you'd probably be best to do some research into other peoples' experiences of claiming them back to see if it's worht it.

 

You may also have been charged overdraft interest and if you have you may be entitled to claim a little of that back on the basis that it wouldn't have existed if the bank hadn't charged you. To work out an estimation of this amount you need to use one of the advanced spreadhseets which required you to enter your account balance at the time the interest was debited. It's a lot of extra work to do this so a lot of people seem to leave this part out of their claims as they think it's such a small amount that it's not worth the hassle.

 

Those are all of the Lloyds charges I know of that you can claim back.

 

Good luck. Lucid

[winnie123]

Thanks Lucid

 

On the HSBC forum there is a sticky thread at the beginning telling you what you can and cannot claim might be handy to have that on this forum as well. He has only got 2 yrs worth of statments so far so will start on that and will keep you guys updated.

[winnie123]

I am looking through the statments at the momment what about a unauthorised overdraft borrowing fee ? £10.00 A hit

[lucid]

Hi winnie,

 

That sounds like an overdraft excess fee to me. What year are these statements from? If it's from quite a wile ago then I suppose it could be quite likely that it was only £10. Have you seen any Overdraft Excess Fees on the statements yet? If not then I guess the unauthorised overdraft borrowing fee is a different name for it - I've not heard of it before.

 

Lucid

[reload]

Yep, I had a few of those on my oldest account records - dating to 2000/2001. Pretty certain they qualify!

[winnie123]

Thanks Reload

 

Statments are from 2002 and is for £10.00 so will include that !

[winnie123]

After a long wait all statments have arrived - well not statments so much Lloyds TSB state that they do not send statments anymore they send you a chart with all the charges which have been applied to the account. In the charts there are charges listed as

 

Account Charge - - Normally £4.00 or £8.00 a hit in the early years then rising to £10.00 a hit from 2001 onwards is this something that I can claim for - so far amount to £1978 and still rising.

[BARTY]

Hi

You can not claim for Account Charges, these are legitimate charges, they will be for a Select Account or something similar.

HTH

Barty

[winnie123]

Thanks Barty well all totalled up and works out to be £2055 will send prelim approach

[winnie123]

Hi Peeps HELP

 

Well claim is still going in Dec 2006 had a partial offer from Lloydstsb for £750.00 which we accepted as part payment. Have filed through court and Lloydstsb have entered in to a defence. Allocation questionnaire returned and have now received a letter from the court stating that the case has been stayed. I have received a standard order for stay for settlement with consent of all the parties. It states that the claim is stayed until the 28th March to enable parties to attempt settlement. On or before the 11 April 2007 one of the following must take place.

 

I have to tell the court that I have had a full and final settlement

 

the bank or I have to write to the court to request a extension of the stay period

 

or all parties have to file a completed allocation questionnaire

 

As my claim with HSBC never got this far I am very sketchy on knowledge does this mean that Lloyds TSB missed there deadline to submit there allocation questionnaire so I have won by default ?

 

Anyone's help would be much appreciated !!

[GuidoT]

It does not mean you have won by default, Lloyds have probably filed their AQ - but they usually do not copy it anymore to the claimant.

 

I probably have the same order, have a look at my thread below to see how I am dealing with it:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/47207-guido-t-lloyds-tsb-3.html

[winnie123]

Thanks Guido T

 

I am really in a panic as feel completly out of my depth is there anything that I need to do or send I have read your thread and a couple of others and understand that this is just a delaying tactic . I believe that the reason LloydsTsb are doing this is because when I started trying to get the charges back the charges were within the 6 yr deadline since filling through court some of these have fallen out the 6yr time line. This isn't even my claim I am trying to help my father in law. I have got payment from LloydsTsb on my account after sending my LBA. The order of stay states that any party affected by it may apply within 7 days of service for it to be set aside.

 

The case is stayed until the 28 March 2007. It states that on or before the 11th April we need to have come to some sort of agreement but what happens after this if I have heard nothing from LloydsTSB do we then get allocated a court date and is this when I need to get the court bundle together ?

 

Please can anyone help I am pulling my hair out with worry !!

[GuidoT]

No need for any panic Winnie, we we will help you along and look after you.

 

We are all in the same boat.

 

Can you post up verbatim the wording of the stay order (I have seen 3 slightly different types of stay) and specific advice will ensue.

 

Have you had any offers or monies from Lloyds on this claim thus far?

[winnie123]

Okay thanks

 

Standard order for stay for settlement with consent for all the parties.

 

District Judge Field orders that this claim is stayed until he 28th March 2007 to enable the parties to attempt settlement.

 

On or before the 11th April 2007 one of the following steps must be taken

either

the Claimant must notify the court that the whole of the claim has been settled : ( see note (i) below

or

the Claimant or the Defendant must write to the court requesting an extension of the stay period , explaining the steps taken towards settlement and identifying any mediator , expert or other person helping with the process . The letter should confirm the agreement of all the parties. ( see note (ii) below)

or

all the parties must file a completed allocation questionnaire at the court. Where a settlement of some of the issues in the dispute has been reached a list of those completed issues should be attached to the completed questionnaire. The list must be agreed with the other parties and must indicate that it has been agreed .

 

this order was made without a hearing. Any party affected by it may apply within 7 days of the service for it to be set aside , varied or stayed .

 

note (i) where the settlement of the claim is achieved before the end of the period of stay the following will be taken to include a application for the stay to be lifted

(a) an application for consent order to give effect to the settlement

(b) an application for approval of a settlement where one or more of the parties is a person under a disability

© the filing of a notice of acceptance of monies paid in to court or a application to accept monies paid into court out of time

note (ii) extensions to the period of stay will generally be no more than one month

 

we have not received a copy of the allocation questionnaire submitted to the court by Lloyds TSB I have used to old wording for my allocation questionnaire as was not aware of any new wording at the time . We have only recieved a payment of £750.00 from Lloydstsb when the claim was for over £2000 this payment from Lloydstsb was a payment stated in there letter of good will and was without prejudice. We wrote back accepting as part payment stating we would pursue the rest

 

Any help would be much appreciated

[winnie123]

Can anyone help my order for stay has ended and I am now in the process of sending a letter to the court to make them aware that Lloyds

[winnie123]

Can anyone help my order for stay has ended and I am now in the process of sending a letter to the court to make them aware that Lloyds Tsb have made no effort to settle the claim. I read on hibbit's thread a letter which I am going to send but also recommends that you send a draft order for allocation. Is this suppost to be done on a n150 or n149 or can I jusr print it off and send it ?

[GuidoT]

You should have PMed me and asked me to look at your thread.

 

Your stay date has expired, you need to act today or tomorrow. There is potential for your claim to be struck if you do not comply with court deadlines.

 

You should send something along these lines:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/47207-guido-t-lloyds-tsb-5.html#post658039

 

and a further AQ with section G completed as here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/47207-guido-t-lloyds-tsb-5.html#post732004

 

If you need the attachments, PM me your email address and I will email them to you.

 

As to whether N149 or N150, what did you complete before? Likely to be be N149 as your claim is

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/11644-allocation-questionnaires-guide-completion.html

All this worked for me and I got the new strategy ordered.

Do not be concerned about BUMPing your thread, in particular if you have a court imposed deadline.

[winnie123]

I already sent a n149 when i completed the 1st allocation questionnaire and paid the £100 before the stay was granted - I have a letter already drafted to the court to advise that no settlement has been met I just didn't know if I had to complete a new allocation questionnaire again or if they would accept the one I sent before the stay was ordered

[winnie123]

okay going to send a new n149 with the letter to lloyds tsb stating no settlement has been agreed , sending this when i get up

[GuidoT]

Send another AQ (but not the fee again), ensure that you include the section G post 18 above words.

[winnie123]

okay new n149 sent again but with no fee and included the new section g posted on the thread - thanks - got my dates wrong stay ran out on the 12/4 not the 9/4 - will await allocation now - hope this is nr the end

[winnie123]

HELP HELP HELP

Have recieved a letter back from the court today and I really need some help quick !!!!

 

Letter Says

 

Upon reading the court file it is ordered that

 

The Claim be stayed as it makes no serious attempt to comply with CPR 16.4 (I) by setting out a concise statement of the facts (stylised particulars do not constitute compliance.) The Claimant must amend or substitute it's particulars of claim setting out the claimant's case in plain english by 4pm on the 8th May 2007 and in defaul the claim be struck out without further notice.

 

If the above is complied with the Defendant has permission to file and serve an amended defence in accordance with CPR 16.5 setting out its case in plain english.

 

When I re submitted my allocation questionnaire I used the below which was suggested to me earlier in my thread

 

'Allocation Questionnaire - Section G Other Information

 

The Claimant respectfully requests that an order may be made as follows:

1.

On the basis that the Defendant has filed the same Defence and then subsequently settled all claims of this nature, it is submitted that the Defence should be struck out pursuant to 3.4(2)(b) of the Civil Procedure Rules and judgement entered for the amount claimed, as it is an abuse of process.

Since March 2006, the Claimant is aware of many claims of this nature in which the Defendant has filed an Acknowledgement of Service, a Defence and Allocation Questionnaire and finally settled in advance of the hearing. In support of this, a sample list of claims, including their claim numbers is attached (attachment 1A).

 

The abuse is underpinned by the orders made (attachment 1B) in at least three cases similar to the Claimant’s, where Lloyds TSB Bank Plc were the Defendant. The court considered the authority of Mullen-v-Hackney London Borough Council (1997)2 A11ER 906 to be relevant, and accordingly the Claimant respectfully requests that the court gives consideration to its relevance in respect of this Claim.

 

That authority is attached (attachment 1C) and in summary it was held that when conducting proceedings a judge could take judicial notice of matters which were notorious, or clearly established, or susceptible of demonstration by reference to a readily obtainable and authoritative source. He could also rely on his own local knowledge, provided he did so properly and within reasonable limits. It followed, in the instant case, that the judge had been entitled to take judicial notice of how the council had conducted itself in relation to undertakings given in similar cases.

The Claimant believes that the Defendant is using litigation as a mechanism to intimidate Claimant’s and to dissuade them from pursuing legitimate claims. It is clear from the pattern of the hundreds of settled cases that the prospects of the Defendant actually contesting this claim at trial are minute.

It is submitted that this litigation strategy is abusive and to the detriment and financial cost of both the publicly funded court resource as well as Claimants. It is respectfully submitted that the Defendant will continue to conduct its litigation in this manner for as long as it is allowed to do so with impunity.

2.

In the alternative, should the honourable court not be minded to strike out the Defence, the Claimant respectfully requests that directions are made as per the attached draft order (attachment 2A).

The Claimant believes the said directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute and allow proper consideration of the matter in advance of the hearing, to enable this claim to proceed justly and expeditiously and negate the time wasted by the Defendant during the stay.

The crux upon which this claim rests is the true cost incurred by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

In the event that the Defendant's charges are accepted as being a fee for a service (which is denied) the order will facilitate examination of its true costs to determine whether the price is reasonable pursuant to the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

The Claimant submits that if the Defendant has a serious intention of defending this claim at trial as predicated in its Defence that it is incumbent upon it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are already routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts.

 

3.

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that the claim be allocated to the small claims track and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

 

The Claimant gives notice that at the trial she will be represented by x or counsel. The trial should last no longer than one hour.'

 

 

PLEASE CAN ANYONE HELP I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO SOOOOOO STRESSED WHEN WILL THIS END

[GuidoT]

I have not seen that order before, what did you say in your particulars of claim (that form part of your N1 or MCOL) did you use the template from this site?

 

Never mind the AQ, we seem to have some more fundamental problems.

[winnie123]

Hi Thanks for replying so quickly I used the template on this site for the particulars of my claim and did not stray from it .