2nd car, clutch gone, bought last week - who pays?

[hillards]

My wife works as a home carer and needs a car for work. Her last one recently failed it's MOT and was going to cost too much to fix. We went to get a Fiesta last Saturday from a dealer we found via Auto Trader. They are an established second hand dealer, not someone selling outside their own home.

 

It's an 02 Fiesta Mk4 which was only MOT'd the day before. She paid on a Visa Debit card, issued by her building society, bar £100 cash deposit when we first went to see it. She's only had it 6 days...

 

Their own mechanic talked to us to say he had just replaced all the brake pads and given it a good going over for the MOT. He said it was a darned good car etc etc. He was also saying to take it back to them for MOT as they were reasonable for anything that needed fixing.

 

We've brought it back home and she's run it for work a couple of days. We found that one wing mirror was faulty, the toggle thing didn't move it and there's a bit of something wedging it to hold it in place. The petrol cap didn't lock and the rear wiper was loose - all minor things we were getting our local garage to fix.

 

She set off this afternoon, got about half a mile and the clutch went - foot to the floor. She managed to nurse it back home in first, round the block. She's very upset as she's had to call work and say she cannot do her calls.

 

I've called the dealer, they say we need to take it back to them and it will cost (about...) £150 to fix ! That's on top of paying to get it there as it won't drive. It's about 25 miles by road. Estimate is about £70 to get it taken there.

 

I've told them I'm not happy about that, we'll get a local garage to look at it and send them the bill. They say that the clutch isn't part of the MOT and they will not pay for the repair work. They're trying to make out we've probably ridden the clutch and made it fail - rubbish...

 

We're having to pay for the car picking up and repairing, the local garage are ordering the parts and they will do it ASAP, they say Monday or Tuesday. As an independent garage I'm asking them to give us a report on the car, as though it was in for it's MOT.

 

To be able to do her job, my wife is having to hire a car - which is going to cost her more of course. It's either that, or she does not get paid and could even lose her job.

 

I'm happy to take this up with Trading Standards if needs be, my view is that if something goes wrong within such a short time then the dealer should accept some liability. But, I'm not 100% sure of myself, hence asking here. I'm also dropping an email to Trading Standards and will refer them back here, so they know I'm trying to get valuable CAG feedback too.

 

If we have redress and the dealer refuses to pay then I'd go to the courts, but need to be sure of my ground before we got anywhere near that of course. I've read lots of similar stories which range from getting nowhere at all through to having the car fixed and billing the dealer for the full cost and the hire car, on the grounds that the vehicle should have been fit for purpose.

 

Where do we stand?

[BankFodder]

If the clutch goes to the floor all of a sudden it is more symptomatic of a hydraulic failure which is much cheaper to repair.

Anyway the liability is with the dealer after only 6 days.

I'm trying from a phone so can't say much more at present

[hillards]

If the clutch goes to the floor all of a sudden it is more symptomatic of a hydraulic failure which is much cheaper to repair.

Anyway the liability is with the dealer after only 6 days.

I'm trying from a phone so can't say much more at present

 

Many thanks for two encouraging bits of news.

[BankFodder]

You will need to have full communication with the seller.

I wouldn't get amy of it done by the garage. Make the seller responsible for the lot.

 

Write a detailed account of everything that has happened. conversations etc - including what the seller said.

 

Make a complete list of everything that is wrong. Don't say that it is clutch hydraulics - it might not be - although it sounds like it to me. Just say cluthc failure.

 

Give the list tot he seller.

get and independent quote for repairs - 2 quotes is better.

 

Give the seller 7 days to agree to repair everything or else you will go to the county court and sue him for the repairs plus the cost of hire duting the loss of the car.

 

If you aren't up to takeing the court action - then don't make the threat.

Frankly, if you aren't prepared to take the court action then you probably ought to give up.

 

 

 

Record any conversations or else make full notes of what was said immediately after. A small digital recorder in your pocket is the best thing.

 

On the matter of hydraulics failure, look inside the clutch fluid reservoir. Is it empty - or is the liquid very dirty - from failed seals?

If you put more fluid into the reservoir, does the clutch start to work if you pump the pedal vigourously for 6 - 10 times?

If so, then it is a hydraulic failure.

 

If the clutch was a few days aways from failure then you would have noticed that the engine needed high revs to get it to move -especially when warmed up.

If you had that kind of symptom, then it probably is clutch failure.

Fiesta clutches are cheap - and probably very cheap to fit.

[rebel11]

Hi hill

 

Here's some info:- http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/676408/oft1241.pdf

[hillards]

If you aren't up to takeing the court action - then don't make the threat.

Frankly, if you aren't prepared to take the court action then you probably ought to give up.

I hear you.

Here's some info:- http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/676408/oft1241.pdf

I am now trying to find out who pays for the repairs. Rebels' link to the OFT document tells me more about the liability bit, where the dealer is responsible. They have said they will get the car repaired, but want to charge us £150 for the honour. We have to arrange to get the car there, so tow truck costs on top, and the cost of the hire car we've had to get.

 

That's why I'm looking at this quite seriously, and would go to court if needs be, as we can't afford to be throwing money away like this. I'm out of work and get no benefits, just a small pension, and the wife's wages are not brilliant. It's only because we have had a successful PPI claim through that we got the car anyway.

 

I'm not clevva enuff to decide what's wrong, I know little about cars, so could not say if the clutch even has hydraulic action or depends on a bit of string. All I know is that the clutch has stopped working and the car isn't going anywhere.

 

There is a hydraulic liquid tank in there, which I thought was for the brakes - they still work. A quick peek in the top and it looks like there's enough in there. The colour is murky black. I've been shining a torch in the side of the opaque tank and could not see any light from the top. A bit like really dirty oil. I don't have any fluid to put in, not that it seems to need any.

 

The car has been stood a few hours now, so I started it up and pumped the clutch a few times, just to see if it sprung back into life - nope, there's no bite or resistance to it at all. I've not tried selecting a gear as the hire car is parked behind it! I'm no mechanic so that's probably beyond what I thought I knew anyway.

 

I've not driven for a few months, my own car was a Kia Schuma, so I have no idea what a Fiesta should feel like. I drove it for about 20 miles on the way back on Saturday. The wife says it was a joy to drive, compared to the clapped out Corsa she had until a week or so ago, so I take it there were no issues with the clutch until today. I wasn't on her insurance until she changed to get this car, I am now.

 

Anyway, plan of action is.

1) it's going to the local garage in the morning for them to look at. Breakdown truck has already been booked for that and paid for.

2) they will look at it, but will not start any repair work unless told to. I will get them to check the hydraulics, now I know of that possibility.

3) they will give me a report and I'll base the next moves on that.

 

IF the clutch has 'gone' I will contact the dealer and ask him again what he intends to do about it. Their own mechanic said he had changed all the brake pads, so I'm guessing he drained the fluid to do that ? Lord knows what he's put back in the reservoir, if it's all dirty looking.

If the garage say it's a simple fix then, to save hassle, we'll let them do it but I will write to the dealer and tell him just what the problems were. I would ask them to at least contribute - you don't get if you don't ask.

 

Until I know more, possibly Monday, I can't really do much more.

[scaniaman]

Hello Hill. Very sorry to read of all the hassle you are having with this car. Unfortunately, this type of story is becoming all too frequent on the CAG site. What i tend to say to people looking to buy a car, especially an older one, is to pay the money and get a local mechanic to check the car out before parting with cash. (or AA). In light of towage costs in getting a car back to a sellers for repair, i always suggest that it is better to buy from a local source. The above is more relevant if it is someone who knows little or nothing about cars---a pre purchase inspection can save you £££££££££££££££.

However, all is not lost. Since your gaffer paid by Visa debit card, if garage refuse to repair car, she can apply to Visa direct or through building society, and ask for charge back---you may have to force the issue on this as they are often not keen to take action. It is your right though.

SOGA state that seller must be given ample chance to repair car first, but this would unfortunately involve you in paying for transport back to their premises. Best of luck.

[hillards]

...this type of story is becoming all too frequent...

Sadly, I've found that out after we bought this one. They say you pay for what you get, and it wasn't a top of the range, recent plate, or anything like that. It's an 02 Fiesta and they are normally reliable. We have bought 'bangers' from online auction sites and been lucky enough to have them last as long as we need them. This time went a bit higher up the ladder with a dealer...

 

...get a local mechanic to check the car out before parting with cash.

More expense though. In hindsight it sounds a good idea, at the time we needed to get a car and this was a dealer with several cars available. We picked the Fiesta out of a shortlist of three we'd gone to see.

 

...apply to Visa direct or through building society, and ask for charge back...

Yes, we've been reading up on that. Not just yet, only if we're forced to. There's a time limit of 120 days.

 

SOGA state that seller must be given ample chance to repair car first, but this would unfortunately involve you in paying for transport back to their premises. Best of luck.

And that's what we intend to do. Once our local garage have had a look at it, they'll give us a report of what needs to be done, along with their estimate. If the dealer still insists we have to pay, we may as well get the work done locally and save on transporting the vehicle - makes sense to me anyway. I'm not particularly happy that we would have to pay to get the car back to the dealer.

 

As far as we're concerned it's broken within a few days and any expense we are subjected to should be claimable? Same with the hire car, the wife cannot work without a car so she had little option there. No car = no job, apart from losing pay she could be dismissed as she's only been there a week! Because the car wasn't fit for purpose we've been inconvenienced.

 

We did look locally first, but couldn't find anything suitable in the price range.