Train travel without a valid ticket

[Helen8]

My partner flew out to Africa and 2 days later a letter arrived which to me looked suspicious. I opened it and found that it was from TIL saying that they have noted his comments about failing to show a valid ticket, there were pre-paid facilities available as that the Rail compnay have advised they see no reason not to pursue. Says "an application for a Summons may now be made" but as there are no instances on his file, they are "authorised to allow a final opportunity of an administrative settlement as an alternative disposal in this case". The letter says 10 days to pay and if that if you do you accept a wriiten warning.

 

I remember him telling me that he travels on the train daily due to a disability and that he always pays for his ticket via the conductor on the train. We both do as where we live it is 'normal' to do so and staff at the station say not to use the machine as it steals cards and money! However he was near Cardiff, rather than in West Wales. The fare was £1.50, he had the money in his hand and waited for the conductor, then looked for him and no-one was around. As he got off the train and went to pay, the people said he was unlucky and they were doing a revenue generating activity. Apparently there was a ticket machine across the bridge on the other platform at his starting station that he should have used.

 

The man said to wait for the letter, reply with what my partner had told him and the matter would be dropped.

 

My partner said in his letter that he would be away in Africa for 2 months and that if TIL wanted to pursue further could they do so at the end of August on his return.

 

He felt very embarassed about it as he was not intending to fare dodge.

 

I am really upset as I don't know what to do as he is out of the country and I cannot contact him. All I've had was a quick phonecall the day he arrived to say there had been a landslide killing 100 people and he was going to see how he could help- it has been in the news.

 

A) Can/should he fight this? £70 is a lot for a £1.50 fare

 

B) What do I do about the fine as he is not here? He would not want it to go to Court

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Hopefully the forum experts will be along with more explanations, but I read this as the rail company offering a chance to settle out of court, which would cost more than £70 as I understand it.

 

I believe things have tightened up in Wales recently and become more like other areas of the UK. If you board a train without a ticket when you could have bought one, it's often trouble. It's the passenger's responsibility to seek out someone to pay rather than wait until staff find them, I believe.

 

Please bear with us until the guys in the know can get here.

 

My best, HB

[Grotesque]

Couple of things, where is the £70 mentioned and if he's uncontactable when did he write a letter? Also what's the nature of hhis disability? Apologies for the personal questions! Good luck.

[Helen8]

The £71.50 (£70 admin plus £1.50 unpaid fare) is in this letter from TIL which arrived a couple of days ago

They have obviously written to him and he has sent a letter back prior to his leaving (for work for 8 weeks)- I don't know what either contained, just that it was about a month ago and since he was told by the person taking his name at the station that he would be sent a letter and if he replied explaining that he always buys on the train, had the money in his hand and tried to find the conductor on the train that it would be ok, so he thought it was all finished with before he flew out.

 

He is epileptic, so no that would not have stopped him from crossing the bridge to the other platform (if he had known it was there). He had been very ill around this time and doctors could verify. Does leave him in a confused state as if 'he's not all there'. He can't tell but others can.

I don't think he is trying to use his disability as an excuse though. He just always pays the conductor on the train and has travelled on the trains for over 35 years.

 

I have phoned Arrive Trains but they said to phone TIL so that is what I will do

[Grotesque]

Thanks Helen8 for your open replies to my intrusive questions. You did read my mind; it is however not a mattter of 'using' a disability, but rather being explanatory. Thanks!

[Old-CodJA]

If they are considering prosecution, the rail company have 6 months from the date of commission of an alleged offence to 'lay the information' before any Court in these cases and you say that your husband has already advised them he is out of the country for a while.

 

If as you say it was about a month ago since your husband was stopped and that he will be back in the UK at the end of August, so I wouldn't worry too much. It looks as if there will be ample time for him to deal with this when he gets back unless he authorises you to pay the admin figure whilst he is away.

[Helen8]

I phoned TIL today and they were courteous but didn't want to hear anything about what had happened on the day.

 

I said he was away in Africa for 8 weeks and she said- "I assume you'll have contact with him"- explained that rural Africa isn't great for internet connection so no I would be unlikely to have contact for some time.

 

She said I needed to write a letter to say he was out of the country and they would take it up when he's back. I checked that the payment wouldn't increase and she said no. Or she said I could pay on his behalf.

 

I said £70 seemed a lot for a £1.50 unpaid fare and she said it's admin fees.

I asked if they would really take this to court and she said quite likely.

 

I don't think there is anything I can do except to pay or ask them to hold off until his return

[Grotesque]

Ultimately, they appear to have proactively approached you and offered a settlement- which a railway company wouldn't have done. If you do wait for his return, remember the figures won't have changed. £70 is a lot compared to £1.50; but not so much when compared to the £2-300 that usually results from a court appearance, maybe.

[Helen8]

Yes that's true that in comparison £70 doesn't seem too bad- it didn't feel like that when i opened the letter though!!

I didn't know what normally happens until I found this site, so thanks

[Old-CodJA]

Ultimately, they appear to have proactively approached you and offered a settlement- which a railway company wouldn't have done. If you do wait for his return, remember the figures won't have changed. £70 is a lot compared to £1.50; but not so much when compared to the £2-300 that usually results from a court appearance, maybe.

 

I don't think we can be sure that is the case as the OP has pointed out that her partner had written in reply.

 

My partner said in his letter that he would be away in Africa for 2 months and that if TIL wanted to pursue further could they do so at the end of August on his return.

 

It isn't clear whether the OPs partner asked for an opportunity to settle in his letter

[Helen8]

I do know some bare bones about my partner's letter-No he didn't ask to settle in his letter, he just explained what had happened as he was told to do just that (by Revenue officer) and all would be ok .

He didn't think he would be fined or anything, but he put in that if they needed to contact him again or pursue further that he would be abroad.

[Old-CodJA]

I remember him telling me that he travels on the train daily due to a disability and that he always pays for his ticket via the conductor on the train. We both do as where we live it is 'normal' to do so and staff at the station say not to use the machine as it steals cards and money!

 

I have highlighted this piece from your original post, not because there is anything wrong with it, but as an illustration of something that can cause misunderstandings leading to travellers being surprised when they are reported.

 

Before anyone, especially conductor guards that may be reading this, jump on me I am not saying all staff are doing this, but it has to be recognised that there are many different characters out there and it's worth examining the reality of what happens on our railways too.

 

It is actually quite rare for any ticket machine to "steal cards & money", so why would any staff tell travellers that is the case? I suggest the answer is very simple, some conductors and on-train staff get paid a commission on the fares that they collect, so it is in their interest to encourage people to pay them. Sadly, this also reflects the low basic pay rates that some staff have to suffer.

 

National Railways Byelaw 18.1 creates a strict liability offence if any traveller gets on a train without first paying their fare where the facility to do so was available to them.

 

The person who says "Someone once told me the machine might steal your card or money" does not have formal authority to board a train without a ticket in line with the exemptions and if found to be travelling without a ticket by an RPI is likely to be reported for the offence.

 

Arriva Trains Wales have stepped up checks across their services and have published strongly worded reminders on posters and hand out leaflets, reinforcing the need to pay before boarding a train.

[Grotesque]

I don't think we can be sure that is the case as the OP has pointed out that her partner had written in reply.

 

It isn't clear whether the OPs partner asked for an opportunity to settle in his letter

 

It doesn't have to be that clear just that they are now offering a settlement. Cheers! I'll have a cognac too, OC

[Helen8]

Well, it's taught me a lesson too.

 

I think to change this long standing practice (in our area anyway), the conductors need to be saying 'I will sell you a ticket this time, but in future you need to buy a ticket before you board'- it's that simple. It's a maybe old fashioned trait now, but many people still like to speak to a person, not deal with a machine, so it takes a while to change this practice.

[Grotesque]

Thanks to the McNulty report, you'll be talking to machines more and more and people less and less I fear.

 

WELCOME TO THE MACHINE....

[Old-CodJA]

I think to change this long standing practice (in our area anyway), the conductors need to be saying 'I will sell you a ticket this time, but in future you need to buy a ticket before you board'- it's that simple.

 

I agree that may be the case in any areas where a long standing practice has previously gone unchallenged, but I do know from recent personal visits to a friends place down there, that ATW have been tackling this issue for quite a while now.

 

Apparently, they have been putting warning signs in place at station entrances and platform access points since last autumn and also handing out leaflets publicising the need to buy-before-boarding.

[Grotesque]

When I was a Guard, we used to sell tickets, but at the same time print off a PF warning on the same ticket stock saying much the same thing. You see them OC? Said something like "If an Inspector had checked your ticket..." etc.

[Old-CodJA]

When I was a Guard, we used to sell tickets, but at the same time print off a PF warning on the same ticket stock saying much the same thing. You see them OC? Said something like "If an Inspector had checked your ticket..." etc.

 

Yes, I know what you mean. When I was a 'Scud' (going back a year or three) we didn't have ticket machines to lug around.

 

We had that most versatile tool, the BR 4407, on which we wrote a travel ticket for whatever reason. I had some small, hand-out slips printed to the same effect and used to give one to the traveller along with their ticket.

[Grotesque]

Classic. Days of glory!

[Helen8]

In fairness, I have seen posters around, but you know what it's like, if you still get a very pleasant service on the train from the conductors (they are always lovely), you don't tend to realise that it might be a problem until you get clamped with a fine...!

 

It's a case of 'yes that's how cities work, but surely not in small places'- WRONG!!!