Yet another ATOS thread.

[HadEnough]

HI all, me again.

Just a couple of quick questions regarding the dreaded ESA50,,,,,

1, I've just received one and have just rung the dwp about my last form asking when the decision was made, he said it was made 18/10/11, so it's over six months so they must have given me 12 months esa, well to my thinking. When I asked him why I've received the form 4 months early he couldn't answer and said he'd get someone to ring me to discuss my concerns.

Has anyone had this happen?

2, I notice that the form came from ATOS and has to be sent back to them, is this usual practice? I thought the esa50 went to a decision maker not ATOS?

 

 

Any answers would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanx Jimi

[rainbo]

My ex-husband won his appeal in December 2011, then in January 2012 he received his next ESA50. They send them out whenever they feel like it, it seems.

 

The forms go back to ATOS.

[abc123def]

It's the DWP that send them out but they go back to ATOS. I had a face to face with ATOS at the end of January and the Doctor terminated the appointment early saying she was recommending I be left alone for 6 months to get better. That was recorded on the DWP system February 18th which ought to have given me a reprieve till August but my ESA50 arrived middle of May, so the reprieve was only 3 months. They beat you down so getting well isn't possible. The stress is such that I have cancelled counselling, can't cope with both.

[down'n'out]

I was just recently changed over from IB to ESA(WRAG). The phone call to state I had been placed in WRAG said(after my asking) that I would be on ESA(WRAG) for 2 years. When the paperwork arrived, it showed I would be paid ESA for approx 6 months. On phoning for confirmation, I was told there would be a review after 6 months(from previous outcome). So it is looking like a probable new ATOS interview every 6 months.

I suppose eventually I will see a "professional" who will make the report so I get kicked off ESA, regardless if my condition does not improve.

[Slatted]

 

The saddest thing about that is that counselling is meant to help you get better and I would have thought should be helping you find a way to deal with the stress!

 

Would a report from the Counsellor not have been possible to try and get you into the support group next time...I know it is inevitable that the form means they review you at ATOS.

 

It may be quite a while before you have a WCA if at all...they have quite a backlog due to a higher than anticipated level of appeals I gather (wonder why?)

 

The very system the Govt would have the general public (i.e those fortunate enough to be in sufficiently good mental and physical health) believe is helping the sick and disabled be motivated back into work is in many cases, from what I can see, making them sicker!

I just cannot understand why GPs and other medical professionals cannot do more and are not striking more about how their medical opinions are seemingly being overruled and ignored......

[rainbo]

*snip*

It may be quite a while before you have a WCA if at all...they have quite a backlog due to a higher than anticipated level of appeals I gather (wonder why?)

 

 

As stated above, ex-husband won appeal in December 2011, ESA50 arrived in January 2012, sent it back by mid-Feb (as per their requested date), a month or so later he received WCA appointment letter for May. Very, very quick, much quicker than anticipated. 5 months between winning the appeal, and having a second WCA.

 

(And he's just been told there's not enough evidence to pay him ESA, so he'll be starting the appeal process shortly for the second time, once the decision maker has formally passed him fit for work. 6 months between being awarded ESA and losing ESA. )

[Slatted]

I think there may have been a misunderstanding. I meant that the time between completing ESA50 form and being called in for WCA (if indeed one is called for) is a lot longer than it used to be..I completed my one in February this year and my medical (if you want to call it that) is today and my friend completed her ESA50 two weeks before but has not heard anything about a medical!

 

The forms seem to be sent without relation to how long the wait may be and the wait is not even determined by time of form sending either!! I swear thay make up the rules as they go on and I do understand how that can make things so much worse for us who are ill.

 

I hear too often of cases where an appeal has just finished and a new form arrives for the battle to commence again! I fail to see how that is even cost-effective for the Govt or ATOS but what do I know? I am only another rat caught in the ever more confusing maze of sickness and unemployment benefits.

 

There is no sense in it at all is there? How can they ignore everything that happened in the appeal? I know they may say that they have to view the up to date situation but surely common sense would look at the past and how the appeal result was concluded, if for no other reason than to save them time and money? I would never expect them to consider the effect upon the claimant!

 

And it is interesting to note that you seem, like me, to be still having to (or choosing to?) help deal with such matters despite being an "ex" partner. Do I conclude that you are similarly "impressed" with what support he would have had without your help?

[HadEnough]

Hi, thanx for your replies.

Well someone has phoned back and tried to avoid answering my question as to how long I had been given back in Oct, 6 months or 12.

I had to say that they must have the info otherwise why am I receiving ESA? She then admitted that I'd been given 12 months and quickly added that I shouldn't have got the form for at least 2 months, also said that I should NOT fill in the form and that she would ensure that ATOS knew the reasons.

 

I feel there is something for everyone to consider here, Don't assume that they are allowing the correct amount of time between decisions, if you think it's to soon, complain, it worked for me.

 

As for the form coming from and going back to ATOS I'll have to research this but the last time I checked it was the DWP who decided if you should be referred to ATOS for a "medical" ( I use the term very loosely) and NOT ATOS itself.

Thanx again guys

[Slatted]

Hi, thanx for your replies.

 

I had to say that they must have the info otherwise why am I receiving ESA? She then admitted that I'd been given 12 months and quickly added that I shouldn't have got the form for at least 2 months, also said that I should NOT fill in the form and that she would ensure that ATOS knew the reasons.

 

I feel there is something for everyone to consider here, Don't assume that they are allowing the correct amount of time between decisions, if you think it's to soon, complain, it worked for me.

 

QUOTE]

 

I must say that I hear alarm bells ringing as you have now to rely on the message from DWP being admitted to rather than suddenly sanctioning you for not returning your form......it is strange how they can "lose" or "forget" such matters........did you get the name of the person to whom you spoke?

[HadEnough]

Yeah, I had the same thought, I got her name and got her to send me a letter stating what, when and why. Mind you even with this I fully expect to have problem come July 20th.

 

Call me a cynic lol

[rainbo]

I think there may have been a misunderstanding. I meant that the time between completing ESA50 form and being called in for WCA (if indeed one is called for) is a lot longer than it used to be..I completed my one in February this year and my medical (if you want to call it that) is today and my friend completed her ESA50 two weeks before but has not heard anything about a medical!

 

Oh yes, I know what you mean now. Well, last time (London area, if that makes a difference), ex-husband completed ESA50 in August 2010, and had WCA appointment in November. Approx 13 weeks. THIS time it was ESA50 completed in Feb 2012, WCA appointment in May. Again, 13 weeks. Wish it had been longer!

 

The forms seem to be sent without relation to how long the wait may be and the wait is not even determined by time of form sending either!! I swear thay make up the rules as they go on and I do understand how that can make things so much worse for us who are ill.

 

I hear too often of cases where an appeal has just finished and a new form arrives for the battle to commence again! I fail to see how that is even cost-effective for the Govt or ATOS but what do I know? I am only another rat caught in the ever more confusing maze of sickness and unemployment benefits.

 

There is no sense in it at all is there? How can they ignore everything that happened in the appeal? I know they may say that they have to view the up to date situation but surely common sense would look at the past and how the appeal result was concluded, if for no other reason than to save them time and money? I would never expect them to consider the effect upon the claimant!

 

And it is interesting to note that you seem, like me, to be still having to (or choosing to?) help deal with such matters despite being an "ex" partner. Do I conclude that you are similarly "impressed" with what support he would have had without your help?

 

I'm choosing to, as I'm closest to him and understand him and the benefits system better than any of his family/other friends. I also am a carer of sorts, having to go to his WCAs, WRAG etc with him, as well as shopping, public transport, busy places. I am pretty much appalled by the system - not blowing my trumpet, but without me he would most likely have had another breakdown (or more), be wrongfuly claiming JSA and being sanctioned for not turning up to appointments (he has social anxiety - crowded places like JCP make him ill), plus probably living with and being supported by his parents (rather than the flat he's in now) - and as much as they love him, they don't really understand the illness.

[rainbo]

With regard to challanging the length of time - when ex-h received recent ESA50 I phoned to ask why so soon after appeal, and that he wasn't due for a review, and the reply was that he needs to fill in the form and they would decide if a review is required.

[Slatted]

Oh yes, I know what you mean now. Well, last time (London area, if that makes a difference), ex-husband completed ESA50 in August 2010, and had WCA appointment in November. Approx 13 weeks. THIS time it was ESA50 completed in Feb 2012, WCA appointment in May. Again, 13 weeks. Wish it had been longer!

 

 

 

I'm choosing to, as I'm closest to him and understand him and the benefits system better than any of his family/other friends. I also am a carer of sorts, having to go to his WCAs, WRAG etc with him, as well as shopping, public transport, busy places. I am pretty much appalled by the system - not blowing my trumpet, but without me he would most likely have had another breakdown (or more), be wrongfuly claiming JSA and being sanctioned for not turning up to appointments (he has social anxiety - crowded places like JCP make him ill), plus probably living with and being supported by his parents (rather than the flat he's in now) - and as much as they love him, they don't really understand the illness.

 

Sounds remarkably similar to my situation having seen what a complete balls up others made and knowing first hand that his family live in Denial (nice place, or so I've heard! Lol) and have done for the 24 years I have known them. And if it anything like my experience I think you deserve to blow your trumpet because precious few others will even say anything positive?!

 

I know not thread related but it felt like it should be said. Not sure how to personal message or if you would be up for it?

[rainbo]

Sounds remarkably similar to my situation having seen what a complete balls up others made and knowing first hand that his family live in Denial (nice place, or so I've heard! Lol) and have done for the 24 years I have known them. And if it anything like my experience I think you deserve to blow your trumpet because precious few others will even say anything positive?!

 

YES!

 

I know not thread related but it felt like it should be said. Not sure how to personal message or if you would be up for it?

 

I am shamefully and painfully c**p when it comes to replying to PMs, but they are always welcome!

[worried33]

The saddest thing about that is that counselling is meant to help you get better and I would have thought should be helping you find a way to deal with the stress!

 

Would a report from the Counsellor not have been possible to try and get you into the support group next time...I know it is inevitable that the form means they review you at ATOS.

 

It may be quite a while before you have a WCA if at all...they have quite a backlog due to a higher than anticipated level of appeals I gather (wonder why?)

 

The very system the Govt would have the general public (i.e those fortunate enough to be in sufficiently good mental and physical health) believe is helping the sick and disabled be motivated back into work is in many cases, from what I can see, making them sicker!

I just cannot understand why GPs and other medical professionals cannot do more and are not striking more about how their medical opinions are seemingly being overruled and ignored......

 

defenitly the case for me, my health took a serious regression after I had to leave my house numerous time sin a short period of time to do things like get crisis loans etc. not to mention the impact the stress had on me, I have have majot issues sleeping which in turn worsens my physical conditions when I cant sleep, I was just starting to get proper sleep periods when it all got shot to peices the moment the DWP started trouble at the start of the year.

[debt4get]

perhaps it may be worth attempting a FOI to DWP on when these ESA50 are being sent out, my neighbour who is also on esa won her appeal 2 weeks ago, yesterday the ESA50 turned up.....it seems almost like victimisation.....you appeal or get put in the WRAG group and very soon after out comes the ESA50.....

[Slatted]

YES!

I am shamefully and painfully c**p when it comes to replying to PMs, but they are always welcome!

 

I am still pretty much a CAG virgin :oops:and have never been on any forum before joined this so can you let me know how to go about this?

[rainbo]

I am still pretty much a CAG virgin :oops:and have never been on any forum before joined this so can you let me know how to go about this?

 

Click on my username, and then click on "Send message"

[Guest amianne]

As stated above, ex-husband won appeal in December 2011, ESA50 arrived in January 2012, sent it back by mid-Feb (as per their requested date), a month or so later he received WCA appointment letter for May. Very, very quick, much quicker than anticipated. 5 months between winning the appeal, and having a second WCA.

 

(And he's just been told there's not enough evidence to pay him ESA, so he'll be starting the appeal process shortly for the second time, once the decision maker has formally passed him fit for work. 6 months between being awarded ESA and losing ESA. )

 

 

This benefit amuses me. I cannot get it into my head that if someone has a condition that cannot be treated, the symptoms are only helped with medication and that it is a progressive condition which is accepted by all that it will eventually lead to their death, they can be found fit for work yet 18 months earlier were considered as being unlikely ever to return to any type of job.

 

I can only give an example of one person that had been on long term IB, transferred over to ESA without an assessment and was placed in the Support Group for 2 years. Having recently submitted a further ESA50, had an assessment and has now been told that they are fit for work and should either get back to work or claim JSA.

 

The particular person, didn't appeal within the time frame and claimed JSA. They heard this week from the Jobcentre when they went in to sign on, that the JSA claim has been terminated "as evidence has come to light that you are unable to satisfy the conditions of your agreement".

When pushed, the Jobcentre said that their illness meant that they could not reasonably be expected to look for employment.

 

She has given up and has now put in a claim for Pension Credit (as advised by the Jobcentre) albeit it has now been 7 weeks since she received any money! She is hoping that she can backdate the claim to when they stopped her ESA. She never received any JSA!

 

What a result for the government. Pushed off ESA, pushed off JSA. In other words she doesn't appear any longer in the statistics!

[Slatted]

This seems to be something that is being commented on more these days...that people can be too sick to work and yet to well for ESA....yet you would think the criteria should come from the same area and logic......

[Slatted]

Click on my username, and then click on "Send message"

 

Tried that...not sure if it worked.

[rainbo]

Tried that...not sure if it worked.

 

LOL, yes it did, I just didn't notice