MBNA Charges as a result of PPI inflating balance***Success Claim Won ***

[Guest alan703]

I would be very grateful if someone could read these three documents for me.

 

I have stated the reasons for my claim in the POC main body.

Everything that has happened and dates in Schedule 1, which shows I have tried to settle this claim without going to court.

Statement of charges in schedule 2

 

It may be two much information, but it does not leave much they can deny. I however could do with a firmer understanding of the section headed "regulations" in the POC

MBNA Schedule 1.pdf

MBNA POC.pdf

MBNA Schedule 2.pdf

[citizenB]

Looks ok to me - I will flag for others to comment.

[Guest alan703]

Thank you very much. Would you include the statement of events? I don't now If it is required at this stage, but thought it would make my case easy to follow, and show I have tried to settle without wasting the courts time.

[citizenB]

IMHO yes, I would include statement of events, for the very reasons you mention

[AndyOrch]

Hi Alan

 

The P.o.C is fine however sec69 interest should be 8% and referred to within the P.o.C as your final comment.The schedules I would leave until you have to respond to any defence offered and incorporate within your response or even later at Witness Stage.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Guest alan703]

Hi Alan

 

The P.o.C is fine however sec69 interest should be 8% and referred to within the P.o.C as your final comment.The schedules I would leave until you have to respond to any defence offered and incorporate within your response or even later at Witness Stage.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

I was under the impression I could claim

Restitution at any rate I wanted - provided I could justify it?

 

Kind o stuffed with that bit as I have already submitted the brief description on MCOL

 

The claim has now changed from requested to issued.

 

Of the two opinions I have, is either way wrong? Or is there different tactics in each?

Ie - tell everything, make it easy, or tell nothing, catch them out?

Edited September 4, 2012 by alan703

[AndyOrch]

I was under the impression I could claim

Restitution at any rate I wanted - provided I could justify it? Correct you can but you cant claim sec69 interest at that rate that is separate and is 8% (set in stone by law)

 

If my claim was at 8%, I lose out? No you dont, you claiim Restitution withion your claim figure, you claim sec 69 on top. (But dont include it the Court will allow at discretion.

 

The claim has now changed from requested to issued.

 

 

Andy

[Guest alan703]

In that case - I have a problem, as my brief description has already made the statement the way I worded it. Can I make a change in the detailed POC that I'm sending?

 

So are you saying I can claim restitution from date they took the money, to the date they pay up, or to the date I made the claim?

 

And is the 8% from when I submitted the court claim? Or from when they took the each payment? - Effectively making the claim 37.9% interest on each payment they took?

 

Sorry for all the questions.

Edited September 4, 2012 by alan703

[AndyOrch]

In that case - I have a problem, as my brief description has already made the statement the way I worded it. Can I make a change in the detailed POC that I'm sending? Yes by application and approval of the defendant

 

So are you saying I can claim restitution from date they took the money, to the date they pay up,No or to the date I made the claim? Yes

 

And is the 8% from when I submitted the court claim? yes Or from when they took the each payment? No - Effectively making the claim 37.9% interest on each payment they took? Yes but you must plead sec69 in the P.o.C calculate the figure to the date of the claim and or up until judgment but don't add it to the summons amount, the court will allow it and add it.

 

Sorry for all the questions.

 

Claiming interest

 

Unless your contract with the trader specifies the rate of interest you can claim, you

should claim interest at the statutory rate of interest, which is currently 8% (check

with the court for the most up-to-date figure).

 

If your claim is for a specified amount, you will need to work out the interest you

are owed. This is calculated from the date that the money became due until the

date the claim form is submitted.

 

To calculate the interest, you first need to work out your daily rate of interest. Using

a calculator, do the following:

 

0.00022 × the amount of your claim – this gives you your daily rate of interest

You then need to work out the amount of interest you are owed up to the date you

issue your claim. Count how many days have passed since the money became

owed to you and multiply that number by your daily rate of interest.

 

You must write your claim in the following way: ‘The claimant claims interest under

section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per year from (date when

the money became owed to you) to (the date you are issuing the claim) of £ …(put

in the amount) and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or

earlier payment at a daily rate of £… (put in daily rate of interest)"

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Guest alan703]

Can I be stupid and asked what happened with shelleys case when she entered 24.9%?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?309037-Charges-older-than-6-years-***WON***-Compound-Int-t-and-**NO-SET-OFF**/page3

 

I understand what you say about the interest, although I think it sucks As MBNA are still lending out my money at 20% minimum, and I can only claim 8% of their profit from it back.

[AndyOrch]

Can I be stupid and asked what happened with shelleys case when she entered 24.9%? I cant remember now long time since I advised on that one

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?309037-Charges-older-than-6-years-***WON***-Compound-Int-t-and-**NO-SET-OFF**/page3

 

I understand what you say about the interest, although I think it sucks As MBNA are still lending out my money at 20% minimum, and I can only claim 8% of their profit from it back.

Well you can still claim compound interest the only point I was trying to make is that you put it in sec69. Which as at this date is 8%

 

Your claim amount £xxxxx

Compound /Restitutional Interest £xxxxx

 

Total claimed on P.o.C £xxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Plus 8% sec 69 interest from xxxxx to xxxxxxx = £xxxxxx (to be added at the court discretion.)

[Guest alan703]

I follow you, but

 

How do I claim the restitution / compound interest from date of my spreadsheet / claim to date of settlement? Or does the court accept the restitution is only calculated to the date of claim, and still runs to settlement?

[AndyOrch]

Claim until the date of claim the sec 69 runs until judgment.

[Guest alan703]

 

You must write your claim in the following way: ‘The claimant claims interest under

section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per year from (date when

the money became owed to you) to (the date you are issuing the claim) of £ …(put

in the amount) and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or

earlier payment at a daily rate of £… (put in daily rate of interest)"

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

The date the money became owed to the date of claim.

 

Sorry for not understanding, but how do I define this? The money became owed on multiple payments between 1998 and 2004.

 

Or can I not claim under s69 but instead just ask for restitution to the day it is settled

[AndyOrch]

Alan let me call our resident PPI Guru for you.

 

Andy

[ims21]

Hi

 

Dropping on as requested by Andyorch.

 

Whether these charges resulted as a result of the PPI or not, they are unlawful as per many, many threads on the site.

 

Interest in restitution is claimed in order to not only give back the charges and interest charged on them by the lender but also to relieve the lender of any unjust profits they made as a result of those unlawful charges being taken from you. This is the principle of unjust enrichment i.e. if the charges are unlawful then so is any interest you paid as a result of them AND so is any other profits they made on them by lending the money out to other people.

 

The rate of interest you choose is up to you but it is you who may have to justify the rate to the court. By way of an example, Barclaycard have been caving in at a nominal rate of 24.9% compounded daily (as per the compound interest calculators you will find on this site). 24.9 is greater than the APR they were charging on the card.

 

So you should prepare your claim figure comprising the charges and the restitutionary interest you wish to claim and that is the amount for your claim.

 

You would then say that you claim S69 interest at a rate of 8% simple on the whole claim amount running from the date of the claim to the date of settlement.

 

Hope this clarifies.

[Guest alan703]

Thanks to you both and BO**OCKS

 

I have 3 options then

 

1. Amend the claim by means of dropping the section 69, and replacing the wording with interest in restitution until judgement

2. Amend the claim by means of adjusting the 29.9% to 8%

3. Leave the claim as it is - as the MCOL claim has been requested and issued - with the wrong s69 rate.

 

Option 1 - I believe is fairest to me. as it relieves MBNA off all unjust profit, not just from the date they took the money to the claim date - but all the way through to judgement. As if it dragged on for say a furhter 1 year - MBNA would make a further 20% / £600, but I would only get an extra 8% / £240 back

Option 3 - would be simplest - but what problems will this cause down the line?

 

How exactly do I amend the claim, and can I omit s69 in favour of restitution until judgement? instead of amending the s.69 rate?

 

I also arsed up on the claim value, but only by two days interest. I prepared the claim online ready to send on Saturday. I sent it on Monday morning, but forgot to update the figures.

 

Thank you for the help and patience!!!

 

How complicated is it to amend the claim? Ultimately, I'd be happy if I got the value the claim is for to date, provided it was settled in good time and relative ease.

 

Aldo: The current card rate as per their current terms and conditions on the web is 27.9% APR on cash advances. so I went with the 29.9%.

Edited September 4, 2012 by alan703

[AndyOrch]

You would only need to amend the P.o.C slightly so in that instance I would just make an application N244 to court requesting same and your new P.o.C.Without an hearing but on notice to the Defendant £40) copy the Defendant (N244).

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Shelley181146]

Hello Alan,

 

Dropping in as requested by your PM.

 

I have read through your thread and see that you have the two 'big boys' already on the case - I assure you, you are in good hands and I won't be able to guide you any better than them.

 

However, I note in your last post (#92) that you have used an interest rate of 29.9% for your interest in restitution. Can I just ask what interest rate you were charged on your statements during the life of the account?

IMO, it is that rate you should be using but Andy is the best guy to advise you more accurately.

 

Like Andy stated in post #86;

 

Your claim amount £xxxxx

Compound /Restitutional Interest £xxxxx

 

Total claimed on P.o.C £xxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Plus 8% sec 69 interest from xxxxx to xxxxxxx = £xxxxxx (to be added at the court discretion.)

 

That is how your PoC should be worded.

 

Shelley

[Guest alan703]

Thanks,

 

I am unsure what interest rate I was charged on the card, but their current rate is in excess of 20%. The credit cards I have now charge me 22%, which is why I pay them off every month, they don't get a penny interest.

 

Just looking at N244 now

 

Is their no way to claim restitution interest right up to the day they settle the claim?

 

All the spreadsheets I have sent MBNA are calculated at 29.9%, so I feel it would be best to leave it at that, and be prepared to negotiate. I don't want to give the impression I will buckle easily, by reducing my figures.

[Guest alan703]

N244 - what is the order I wish the court to make?

 

Alter an interest rate from 29.9% to 8%

 

Alter the whole paragraph to remove the S.69 element, and instead claim restitution interest until judgement at 29.9% simple, daily rate of £x.xx

 

When I fill it out, do I also send a copy along with the detailed particulars of claim to the defendant?

 

I have NOT sent the detailed particulars yet, so IF I sent the N244 with them, do I send the correct POC, or one to match hat I entered online, and make reference to the N244

[AndyOrch]

N244 - what is the order I wish the court to make?

 

Alter an interest rate from 29.9% to 8%

 

Alter the whole paragraph to claim restitution interest until judgement at 29.9% simple, daily rate of £x.xx

 

Permission to amend the Particulars of Claim..... state the errors and the enclose a draft of the correct P.O.C.

 

Pursuant to CPR 17

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/pd_part17

 

Andy

[Guest alan703]

Do I really need to amend it right now? Could I wait until MBNA challenge it?

 

From what I understand of section 1.3 of the link you just gave, I need the courts permission to amend.

 

At what point can I send MBNA the amended version?

 

What is the difference between

 

1.2 (2) a copy of the statement with the proposed amendments

and

1.3 file with the court the amended statement of case

[AndyOrch]

Do I really need to amend it right now? Could I wait until MBNA challenge it?

 

From what I understand of section 1.3 of the link you just gave, I need the courts permission to amend.

 

At what point can I send MBNA the amended version? When you have permission and finalised it with the Court

 

What is the difference between

 

1.2 (2) a copy of the statement with the proposed amendments This is requesting and proposing

and

1.3 file with the court the amended statement of case

This is filing after permission granted.

[Guest alan703]

OK,

 

Assuming it takes more than 19 days (5 for service, 14 to send particulars) to go through the process of the N244 and get permission,

 

What do I send MBNA within the next 19 days to make sure they do not say I did not send them the particulars within the agreed time frame? - The wrong particulars?