Life Being Scuppered by Council tax 'bailiffs' special powers

[thundy]

Ok so ive had problems with council tax for years. It all stemmed from a girl i was living with and i breaking up and her leaving me with a huge pile of unpaid bills.

 

since then i've pretty much been stuck in a vicious cycle of being unable to pick up one years council tax because im too busy paying bailiffs for the previous years.

 

Ive recently started a new job, which will solve this situation, however, im a self employed contractor and have to pay for everything up front and claim it back from the company who are paying for my services. This poses a problem, as im on a DMP. The DMP itself isnt too bad, although i have no idea how long it is going to take to clear the balances because ive had to reduce my payments in order to pay... surprise surprise bailiffs authorised by the local council to collect last years council tax.

 

Ross & Roberts are like all Bailiff companies, glorified extortionists. Ive paid so far £700 toward an original balance of £1300 and somehow my outstanding balance remains at £900..

 

They handled my case so badly at first that i actually emailed the council and tried to open a dialogue. i explained my situation in full and told them that IF they gave me some breathing room, i could clear both this year and last year's balances within the next 6 weeks.

 

The response was basically an explanation of how the council process our tax arrears (something i already knew), a statement of my outstanding balances (again something i already knew) and what can only be described as a "Tough ****" statement regarding my situation. And a "recommendation" that i contact their office to discuss repayment options for this years balance.

 

i have responded re-iterating my situation regarding the DMP and last years balance i.e i have NO spare income, and this financial restriction could potentially cost me my job and that being the case, NOBODY gets paid.

 

I am aware that this situation is really my fault, and i have no intention to try and get out of paying my debts. My objection is that a government department such as the council whose responsibility is to look after the inhabitants should be a damn sight more understanding and flexible. Ive been told year after year by these idiots that if i miss one payment, i lose the right to pay by installments and must pay the full balance immediately or face the bailiffs again.

 

NO other creditor has the power to treat people like this, and those are all optional ones. Without wanting to sound overly dramatic, it is almost fascist, the way that council tax is not only a madatory payment, unless you live on a canal boat or something, but you basically get stomped on with an iron boot if you miss a payment.

 

based on what the council representative said to me, im basically going to be stuck in this cycle forever unless by some miracle i manage to weather the storm and get through the next 6 weeks without any further business expenses.. which is unlikely

[dx100uk]

if you can pay you should be paying the council

direct via your internet banking site

never ever pay a bailiff.

 

you need to do these two things:

 

start by sending this to the bailiff co. it can done by e-mail also send it to the council this will tell us when the fees were added

 

From:

My Name

My Address

To:

Acme bailiff Co

bailiff House

Ref: Account No: 123456

Dear Sir

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

I require this information within 14 days.

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

Also always advisable to ask the Council.

 

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

 

 

dx

[hallowitch]

'bailiffs' special powers

 

Bailiffs don't have special powers they like to think the do but they don't

 

at any time including past liability orders has a bailiff ever been in your House to levy goods or placed a levy on a vehicle you own

[thundy]

Thanks for the response. With a view to getting this information, may I ask what the purpose of this is?

 

I just want to know the basics.

Im leaving for Saudi arabia in a week and will be there for 6 weeks, so correspondance isn't going to be easy.

 

My intentions are to have cleared the Bailiff balance by the end of this month and then this years balance shortly after.

 

What i originally wrote to the council for, was to try and get them to call off their "Attack dogs" and give me some breathing room so that i could go to saudi,

and do my job, without the constant distraction and worry of whether there were thugs trying to climb in through a bathroom window or something.

 

It really is a case of just needing a bit of pressure taken off and some breathing room.

 

Ive been dealing with R&R for the last 4 years and whilst most of my interractions with them have been fairly business-like,

a couple of their bailiffs, including the one handling my account now, i don't trust any further than i could throw them

 

 

Hallowitch -

no. bailiffs have been in over the last 4 years to make arrangements and take inventory of my posessions,

but it has never gotten to the point where they have turned up specifically to take levy my goods.

 

Although at the start of may, due to a cock up on their part, a bailiff turned up claiming i was in arrears,

when i showed him my bank statement proving i'd paid on time, he eventually left,

but not after hovering for half an hour waiting for his boss to give him the ok.

[hallowitch]

if there has never been a levy on your goods (inside or out) then i would move your vehicle away from your house (so they cant levy or remove it ) go to work and use the councils on line payment facility to pay the debt

 

 

Ive paid so far £700 toward an original balance of £1300 and somehow my outstanding balance remains at £900..

 

your outstanding balance including lawful bailiff fees is £642.50

 

because this has been going on for 4 years i would send R&R a subject access request to find out exactly what fees have been added to each and every account if there has been no levy on any account the most you can be charged in bailiff fees is £42.50 per liability order

[thundy]

That is actually interesting.

 

i know for a fact they have charged me more than that.

they have charged me three time that just for attending to set up the arrangements.

 

THe form they left me with says they can charge me £173 per visit too.

 

I do think i need to ask them to lay out the charges for all my accounts for the last 4 years

since they have never had to attend once the initial arrangement was set up except last month with that cock up they made.

 

but if they charged me for that then i will take it back to the council. although that will likely just get the usual response.

 

Gosport council really are awful when it comes to council tax arrangements.

 

Considering they are supposed to be bean counters they seem to have great difficulty understanding the concept of not having £1500 laying round in your bank account.

[hallowitch]

THe form they left me with says they can charge me £173 per visit too.

 

no where in regulation 45 (b) schedule 5 charges connected with distress is there fee of £173

 

what form did they leave you

[thundy]

the form with the agreement on it. it lists the balance, the amount per month and date of the agreement and the says any fee with a view to levy or make a new agreement will be charged at £173

[ploddertom]

One thing you have to be aware of is that it does look as if the Council have hived off part of their admin functions to a company called Capita.

 

This usually means that when you ring the Council you are speaking to an employee of Capita and not the Council.

 

They are not known for being very helpful and one of the reasons for this is that Capita also own 2 Bailiff companies one of which just happens to be Ross & Roberts.

 

One can smell it from here, the sooner you ask for the details alluded to previously the better and we can help you sort fact from fiction.

 

PT

[thundy]

ok i'll send another email request to the council asking for more details. and to ross and roberts requesting that info too.

Im going to have to do it by email though as im out of country for 6 weeks and by the time i come back ill have cleared the balance. but if i am being ripped off i will flip

[hallowitch]

the form with the agreement on it. it lists the balance, the amount per month and date of the agreement and the says any fee with a view to levy or make a new agreement will be charged at £173

 

thats not right a levy fee depends on the amount outstanding against the liability order at the time of the levy therefore there is no set amount

http://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/docs/Enforcement_Agent_Charges.pdf

 

2.- (1) In head B of the Table to paragraph 1, "the relevant amount" with respect to a levy means;-

(a) where the sum due at the time of the levy does not exceed £100, £24.50;

 

(b) where the sum due at the time of the levy exceeds £100, 24.5% on the first £100 of the sum due,

 

4% on the next £400, 2.5% on the next £1,500, 1% on the next £8,000 and 0.25% on any additional sum;

 

and the sum due at any time for these purposes means so much of the amount in respect of which the

 

liability order concerned was made as is outstanding at the time.

 

there is no such thing as a new agreement fee (if and only if there is a valid levy in place and you miss or make a late payment the bailiff can charge an attendance to remove fee however he must fiscally turn up at your home with the intention of removing goods to charge this fee )

 

have a look at form 7 have you ever been left this form

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1988/2050/schedule/2/made

Notice of Seizure of Goods and Inventory Distress for Rent Rules 1988:Rule 12Rent 7

FORM 7

[hallowitch]

ok i'll send another email request to the council asking for more details. and to ross and roberts requesting that info too.

I'm going to have to do it by email though as I'm out of country for 6 weeks and by the time i come back ill have cleared the balance. but if i am being ripped off i will flip

 

make sure you make it clear that you are requesting a breakdown for all accounts

 

personally if you have £10 i would send the subject access request that way you will have everything including copy's of all alleged levies waiting for you on your return

 

and as i said hide your car well away from the house

[thundy]

form 7 is, (although not in that exact format) one of the forms i have been left. All this information has thrown me off now. Am i in fact being illegally charge or not? (or rather does it look that way with the info ive given)

 

I don't really want to complicate things any more than they have already been, I just want them to back off for long enough to allow me to pay them back without losing my car or posessions, But they are being so unco-operative as they always have been.

 

The bailiffs are being exactly what they are, bailiffs. experts at extracting money. and over the 4 years that ive been dealing with them, i've begun to learn what i can and cant do, and my DMC have been pretty helpful.

 

I understand that the council could have outsourced the tax department, but im not sure what relevance this has to my account, since if that is the case, going directly to the council will just have me running around in circles since the council themselves will be keen to get rid of me and just keep directing me at whoever handles these things for them. (unless i am mistaken)

 

I will get the information advised, so that we can see if i am being lawfully charged or not, but really im not looking for a long drawn out battle, im just looking for advice on how to get the council to stop being this way and meet me half way

[ploddertom]

make sure you make it clear that you are requesting a breakdown for all accounts

 

personally if you have £10 i would send the subject access request that way you will have everything including copy's of all alleged levies waiting for you on your return

 

and as i said hide your car well away from the house

 

Very sound advice

[hallowitch]

form 7 is, (although not in that exact format) one of the forms i have been left. All this information has thrown me off now. Am i in fact being illegally charge or not?

 

is there a list of your goods written on this form

 

is there fees written on this form

 

as in

visit fees £xxx

levy fee £xxx

walking possession fee £xx

[ploddertom]

There is no law that says you have to speak to or deal with a bailiff. I can guarantee however that if you are going to be away they will get wind of this and see it as an opportunity to charge yet more fees. In my view it looks as if you have paid quite happily in the past and they will have seen this as there time to gain extra cash. Now is the time to collate all your info and hopefully hit them where it hurts.

 

PT

[thundy]

Yes there are goods listed on the forms and charges too.

 

There are two accounts combined into one so there are two forms.

 

because the council claims i defaulted on a previous agreement,

 

although i received no such communication about it and thought it was cleared.

 

The charges for the larger amount £1071 are £91.00 and the charges for the smaller amount £337 are £95.

 

other than that the forms are the same barring the reference numbers

[thundy]

ploddertom - you are probably right.

 

i've never bothered fighting in the past because in all honesty i accept that the debt is my fault and i need to pay it,

and added fees are sort of part of the process.

 

but it occured to me recently that i'm never going to get out of this cycle if the council don't stop being jackasses and actually give me some breathing room.

 

they already have a liability order against me for this years tax too according to them.

 

And they clearly couldnt give a crap about my situation and will quite happily keep piling on the bailiffs.

 

If i wasnt leaving the country i'd go and see the council face to face

[ploddertom]

If i wasnt leaving the country i'd go and see the council face to face

 

In some respects you can do this by proxy - involve your local Councillor(s), if they are reluctant or refuse then go straight to the Leader of the Council & his opposite number - they can work on this whilst you are away. If you do this also tell them about his site so they can see for themselves the types of things that happen.

 

PT

[dx100uk]

the bottom line here is the bailiff has had you on a string for 4yrs

 

when you should have told them to go away off on day one!

 

bet you've paid more already than what was ever outtanding inc this year!!

 

bailiff has had you for a cash cow.

 

get that SAR off

and get the details from the council for the last 4yrs like i asked earlier.

[thundy]

Dx you are right.

 

The DMC told me this when i first explained that situation to them.

 

I convinced them to leave the council to me as the DMC cannot garauntee that they can pay the bailiff on the correct day,

and so the risk of levying goods would be increased.

 

They DMC sent me a form with "how to deal with bailiffs and your rights" on it, however this is a bit late.

 

I just want to get this debt cleared and stop worrying about it, but i live in constant fear that ill return from saudi thinking everything is ok and my car and or possessions will be gone.

 

I've written to R&R asking for the list of charges etc etc. and ive written to my two local councillors explaining my situation and asking for them to help get the tax department to see sense.

 

The Council tax department keep giving me these robotic responses, when all i want is for the Bailiffs to dissapear and let me deal with an actual human being who wont charge me £173 for the privelege

[dx100uk]

they cannot take your goods! even WITH levy

 

as they cannot force entry end of! its for CTAX.

 

DMC?

 

dont tell me you're being fleeced by a debt management company too?

 

dx

[thundy]

not being fleeced.

i was aware of the charges before i signed anything.

 

I chose to go with a DMC because im a busy guy and trying to juggle several creditors is time consuming and im not an expert in how to deal with creditors anyway.

 

Paying to have someone else deal with my debts is a perfectly viable option,

as it takes the stress out of it.

 

im not here to be insulted, i am well aware of my failings.

 

I appreciate the advice and will use what ive learned today to try and square this situation away.

 

But since you seem to be about to turn this discussion around and start insulting my intelligence, ill bow out.

 

Have a good day

[dx100uk]

that was not what i said..

 

dx

[brassnecked]

thundy, DX was not having a pop, merely pointing out that like bailiffs some DMCs arent squeaky either, all Caggers want is to advise viable courses of action, in your case once SAR comes back, you may well be able to recoup some of the money the bailiffs have milked from you. They have far less powers in actuality than next doors cat.