Unable to pay order for costs - still on going but relates to unpaid service charges dating from 2008.

[Andyorch]

" I had to agree to pay the other sides costs for the new defence - approx £1,500." First point of dispute.

[marloes]

Hi Andy. I don't understand your last post. First point of dispute?

[Andyorch]

If you cant agree costs then it is assessed..if you still cant agree you raise points of dispute...the first being above in my last post.

 

You have read my posts on costs?

[marloes]

Hi Andy,

yes I read the post re costs etc, thanks.

I'm not sure how the £1,500 is in dispute though as I thought that it was precedent that a party that amends it's defence must pay the costs of the other side?

 

I'm trying to make sense of the CPR and practice directions at the mo.

Am I right in mu understanding that now the claimant must apply to the court for a commencement order, an N252?

They should then send me a copy of the N252 and commencement notice?

Is that correct?

 

All I have received from the claimants solicitors is a breakdown of their costs for over £6.5k but their was no N252 with it.

 

Am I right in thinking they will now apply for detailed assessment.

 

To repeat this claim is on the small claims track.

[Andyorch]

Yes you understand correctly marloes.

 

The £1500 should be a point of dispute because its false...how on earth can amending a defence lead to costs of that amount....have you had a breakdown and time sheet and costing justifying that extortionate amount?

[Ganymede]

If you cant agree costs then it is assessed..if you still cant agree you raise points of dispute...the first being above in my last post.

 

You have read my posts on costs?

 

 

 

From what I understand the £1500.00 costs were summarily assessed on the day of the first hearing.

[marloes]

Hi Ganymede. Yes- the Order states the following.

 

"The Defenant shall pay the Claimant's costs for today's hearing summarily assessed in the sum of £1.5k" ( approxed for anonymity)

 

The judge asked at the time my comments but I was very distraught and only said I thought it was very expensive. What should I have said?

 

 

These are the costs that the claimant submitted an unless order for. I responded with an N245 & IE which was followed with a letter from the court stating "No Action ".

 

 

Can I challenge these costs too?

[marloes]

Thanks Andy, I will check their breakdown of costs and post accordingly.

 

Have checked the lists of costs they've sent. They are titled " Estimate of costs". There are no dates. They list such as 'Counsel Fees (Est) £1,250.00 plus VAT of £250.00 but this is under an 'Estimate of future costs"

 

Not sure what to do

[Ganymede]

Not sure there is much you can do other than trying to vary the Order again.

[marloes]

I would be grateful for some clarification on costs as I'm not sure what's supposed to happen now.

 

The court send an order which says "costs to be assessed if not agreed".

The claimant's solicitor has sent a bill of costs which are 'estimated' and don't comply with the CPR.

 

Do I need to write stating I disagree?

 

Aren't the solicitors supposed to send a Notice of commencement (N252) if they want the costs assessed.

 

Confused??

[Ganymede]

I think we're all confused lol.

 

I've read your thread again and the £1500.00 was assessed on the day of the hearing.

That is just for the costs of that day and having the hearing adjourned.

You did not oppose them on the day, have not appealed them and not tried again to vary to instalments.

 

This £6k you refer to is just the Defendant's bill and so far no Court Order to pay it, unlike the above?

[marloes]

Hi Ganymede. Thanks for reply.

 

The £1,500 was 'summarily' assessed. The claimant has had over a year to enforce(?) them but hasn't. Can I still challenge those costs? Is there a time limit within which they must either claim or enforce those costs?

 

Yes the £6k is their bill of costs but not assessed and no order to pay. I don't know what they must to do to collect them. I've read the general rules about costs but I' m confused. Help....

[Andyorch]

Have checked the lists of costs they've sent. They are titled " Estimate of costs". There are no dates. They list such as 'Counsel Fees (Est) £1,250.00 plus VAT of £250.00 but this is under an 'Estimate of future costs"

 

Not sure what to do

 

 

What exactly was this hearing for ? who requested It?

 

Andy

[marloes]

Hi Andy.

There have been two hearings.

1st) Ordered by the court.

At this hearing I submitted a new or amended defence and was told if I wanted it accepted I must pay the other side's costs for that day, I.e the £1,5k which comprised £1k for the barristers 'day' and the £500 for the solicitor.

 

I agreed to the costs although I said I thought they were excessive only because I wanted my new defence allowed.

The costs order for this was 'summarily' assessed

 

The 2 nd hearing was scheduled by the court 8 months later and the hearing was not completed ( only my side was heard) as the judge prioritised another case leaving mine to the afternoon.

 

He was attending a function ( it was Friday) so finished the hearing early but said another would be scheduled to finalise the case.

This never happened as the claimant submitted an unless order for the £1,5k costs.

[Ganymede]

Hi Ganymede. Thanks for reply.

 

The £1,500 was 'summarily' assessed. The claimant has had over a year to enforce(?) them but hasn't. Can I still challenge those costs? Is there a time limit within which they must either claim or enforce those costs?

 

 

 

 

Did you see a schedule of costs on the day of the first hearing for the £1,500.00?

 

I think you have left it too long to appeal the decision now.

 

Also, the Claimant can enforce the Order up to 6 years after it was granted.

[marloes]

Thanks Ganymede.

No, no schedule of costs was given to me.

 

The barrister just verbalised the costs after going away to phone their solicitor.

 

The judge asked me for comments, I was v upset so just said it's v expensive.

A friend who attended with me said the judge was trying to help me by their repeats at asking my thoughts but I was distraught.

 

Can someone advise on filling in the N245.

 

The court has ordered me to pay £6k including interest.

I'm on JSA at the moment.

I've filled in an Application for a fee remission.

 

My questions on the N245 are is this the right form if you can' t afford to pay a large sum outright?

 

Which boxes do I tick?

 

Suspension of the warrant?

And or a reduction in the instalments order?

 

It's not clear. I have read the leaflet (I cannot pay the judgment) from the Ministry of justice but unlike other forms it doesn't state which box of the above is applicable.

 

Thxs

[Andyorch]

I thought you had already completed this once marloe do you not recall?

[marloes]

Hi Andy.

 

Yep I did fill in and send one before.

I didn't tick the box next to 'suspension of warrant' at that time though

I've been thinking that was why the judge said 'No Action ' although the court did send it to the claimants who rejected my offer.

 

I'm double checking as I would prefer to avoid any more stress if possible.

 

Thanks.

[Andyorch]

In stead of making further application and further expense to yourself why not ring them up and speak to the litigator handling...propose a payment..make it a genuine offer( even by consent order if they wish).

 

I agree with Ganymede this has all been left too long to deal with now you should have argued in the court room (£1500.00 to amend a defence and they consult barristers and council)

[marloes]

Yes, it's been a very expensive lesson.

My main concern is the order for £6k which is why I' m filling an N245 and Ex160.

I'm unemployed and can't afford it outright.

 

Do I tick both suspension of warrant and reduction in instalments boxes?

[Andyorch]

No there is no warrant as yet just make application to vary the payment to monthly plan ...complete the I&E and make a realistic offer.

[marloes]

So ticking reduction in the instalment order is the only box I need to tick?

 

When does it become a warrant?

 

Another question if any one can answer.

 

The judge made the order to pay 3 weeks before the court actually issued the order.

I didn't receive the order for another 4 days.

 

I'm aware that an order/ judgment should be paid 14 days from the order date but what happens in this case where the court delays in processing and sending it?

[Andyorch]

It becomes a Warrant once they have made application to execute the judgment in the event of none payment...there are various ways of enforcement

 

Charging order

Attachment to Earnings

Third Party Debt Order

Bankruptcy

 

With regards to your second point...its irrelevant anyway if you dont have the means to settle...hence your Application to vary the judgment payment.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[marloes]

Thanks Andy. I've got the forms done and will hand to court later today. Will be glad to have a break from it and try and enjoy the nice weather.

[marloes]

Hi can someone clarify the procedure that has to be followed in how costs are assessed.

 

The claimants solicitor has sent a list of the costs they want including estimated future charges.

 

Doesn't the solicitor have to follow the CPR re costs?

 

Don't they have to send an N245 Notice of commencement with a fully itemised bill of costs?

 

This case was on the small claims track.