Landrover clutch....help

[trevor33]

My son bought a Landrover TD5 Discovery abut 3 weeks ago.

Paid over the odds I think.

 

He found a fault with the gear selector and took it to the local LR specialist.

 

On the way there the clutch started slipping so he asked them to check that as well.

 

A 6 month warrany was with the LR when he bought it.

 

The insurance does not cover the clutch and they are still thinking about the gear selector problem.

 

The cluch will cost about £1000.

 

Spoke to the LR dealer and he said it is difficult to determine how long ago the clutch started slipping, but I would have thought that it must have been for some time.

 

Does my son have any comeback on the garage that sold it under SOGA?

 

T33

[rebel11]

Hi Trev

 

Heres some info:-

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_cars_and_other_vehicles_e/cars_buying_a_car_e/cars_buying_a_secondhand_car_e.htm

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/your-rights-buying-second-hand-cars/

 

Send letters Recorded, if you need to send them.

[trevor33]

Hi Trev

 

Heres some info:-

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_cars_and_other_vehicles_e/cars_buying_a_car_e/cars_buying_a_secondhand_car_e.htm

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/your-rights-buying-second-hand-cars/

 

Send letters Recorded, if you need to send them.

Thanks rebel, Still not sure if the clutch is covered. Been in touch with the dealer and he will get back to me. It seems there is an issue with landrover clutches but not sure what. The car has done about 90K miles and this is about the lifetime of a clutch.

[rebel11]

Hi Trev

 

The dealer should have serviced it before selling it, theres a 6 month warranty, it should be covered. I wouldn't expect it to go after 3 weeks if it's been serviced, don't let the dealer tell you otherwise.

 

Let us know what he says.

 

Thanks rebel, Still not sure if the clutch is covered. Been in touch with the dealer and he will get back to me. It seems there is an issue with landrover clutches but not sure what. The car has done about 90K miles and this is about the lifetime of a clutch.

[trevor33]

Been in touch with the warranty people and they say clutch is NOT covered. Its fair wear and tear. I think the warranty is not worth the paper its written on.

[trevor33]

Heard from dealer. He says that clutch was ok when they tested car...(typical). He also says that they will probably be able to get the repair done with a contribution from us. He says that they can get it done for about £350.

T33

[heliosuk]

Is it an approved Land Rover dealer and an approved Land Rover warranty?

[heliosuk]

Hi Trev

 

The dealer should have serviced it before selling it, theres a 6 month warranty, it should be covered. I wouldn't expect it to go after 3 weeks if it's been serviced, don't let the dealer tell you otherwise.

 

 

The dealer is under no obligation to service before sale, there is no such thing as a 6 month warranty, only a precident that any fault is assumed to be present in the six months after the time of sale. This is further clarified that it depends on the age, mileage and price paid.

Edited May 6, 2012 by caro
Unnecessary remarks

[rebel11]

Hi Trev

 

Have a read of the the following, this guidance is for dealers, but will provide you with relevant info :-

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/news-and-updates/press/2010/71-10

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/rep...08/oft1241.pdf

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/rep...08/oft1242.pdf

 

This was the consultation document:-

 

There's a flowchart page 30, easy to follow :- http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/676408/OFT1152con.pdf

[oddjobbob]

Helios said

 

The dealer is under no obligation to service before sale''

 

BANG ON!

 

There is NOTHING anywhere whatsoever that says a dealer must service a car before sale.

 

All it needs to be is roadworthy.

 

So, EVEN IF you get the car then find that both front wings are full of filler, both bumpers have been replaced and its been fitted with a secondhand gearbox (all examples) NONE of those detract from it's fitness to be on the road.

Edited May 6, 2012 by caro
Removing quote which has been edited

[trevor33]

Is it an approved Land Rover dealer and an approved Land Rover warranty?

No, it was not a LR dealer where we bught it. What I want to know is if the clutch is "Fair wear and Tear" or can we claim under SOGA for a replacement FOC.

T33

[sailor sam]

Clutch is a wear and tear item. Gear selector would be for the seller to resolve. Warranty dose not replace your statutory rights under the SOGA so is irrelevant especially for the first 6 months of ownership.

[trevor33]

Clutch is a wear and tear item. Gear selector would be for the seller to resolve. Warranty dose not replace your statutory rights under the SOGA so is irrelevant especially for the first 6 months of ownership.

OK. We've had the LR for less than 3 weeks and done less than 100 miles since purchase. When does wear and tear come into it. Surely the cutch was faulty at time of purchase.

[sailor sam]

OK. We've had the LR for less than 3 weeks and done less than 100 miles since purchase. When does wear and tear come into it. Surely the cutch was faulty at time of purchase.

 

Its the sellers burden to prove that it wasn't faulty at the time of purchase. I would think you would have a fairly strong argument if you have only done less than a hundred miles and you have documented proof of that, BUT you may need to test it in court which may not be straight forward. Seller will no doubt dig his heals in. My advice would be to send him a letter (recorded post) asking him to rectify at no expense to you due to the short amount of time since purchase and low usage. Indicate that as far as you are concerned, clutch was faulty when purchased. Problem is that he must have the opportunity to do this himself before you have any work carried out else where.

[trevor33]

Its the sellers burden to prove that it wasn't faulty at the time of purchase. I would think you would have a fairly strong argument if you have only done less than a hundred miles and you have documented proof of that, BUT you may need to test it in court which may not be straight forward. Seller will no doubt dig his heals in. My advice would be to send him a letter (recorded post) asking him to rectify at no expense to you due to the short amount of time since purchase and low usage. Indicate that as far as you are concerned, clutch was faulty when purchased. Problem is that he must have the opportunity to do this himself before you have any work carried out else where.

Thanks sam.

I know a cluch is a grey area, but we have had discussions with the dealer. He is a little reluctant to admit liability but agrees that something needs to be done. We will see what he comes up with. T33

[sailor sam]

Thanks sam.

I know a cluch is a grey area, but we have had discussions with the dealer. He is a little reluctant to admit liability but agrees that something needs to be done. We will see what he comes up with. T33

 

Better to try and reach an amicable solution as opposed to taking the matter through the courts as it could be a lengthy business which you would have to initially fork out for.

 

Please keep us posted.

[trevor33]

Better to try and reach an amicable solution as opposed to taking the matter through the courts as it could be a lengthy business which you would have to initially fork out for.

 

Please keep us posted.

Thanks again sam. Will keep you posted

[oddjobbob]

@ rebel

 

FYI here is what you said that was incorrect

 

The dealer should have serviced it before selling it,

 

There is no compulsion for a dealer to service a vehicle before sale even if a service is overdue.

 

Although it is the case that many do in fact choose to do so.

[heliosuk]

No, it was not a LR dealer where we bught it. What I want to know is if the clutch is "Fair wear and Tear" or can we claim under SOGA for a replacement FOC.

T33

 

OK T33.

 

Standard book time for changing a clutch is around 3 hours. Allow another for inexperienced dealers i.e. not Land Rover.

 

Obviously labour rates differ so say £50 per hour then that is around £200. This leaves £800.

 

A slipping clutch will be noticeable within a few miles however your car is fitted with a DMS, a dual mass flywheel, which is prone to problems. This is generally covered under any warranty as it comes under flywheel.

 

The problem here is that unless the box is removed you won't know if it is the clutch or the fly wheel.

 

Under SOGA (Rebel 11 take note) and given the mileage covered the onus is on the selling dealer. Had it been 2 months in and say 2000 miles then that would be different . Reality is that if the dealer didn't pick up on it it's the flywheel issue which would account for the £800.

 

The gearshift problem is also known and there is a recognised fix for this.

 

You can subscribe to a thing called TOPIX which gives all the tech info, service bulletins etc for all Land Rovers. Google it and it shows. I think it's a tenner a year.

 

Hope that helps.

[caro]

A number of posts have been removed or edited as they added no help for the OP.

 

All advice has been kept for the OP to make their own informed decision on the options and suggestions of all contributors.

 

If people disagree with advice offered, please stick to your reasons without attacking those offering their own advice and support.

[rebel11]

As suggested, note taken.

 

Have a read of the the following, this guidance is for dealers, but will provide you with relevant info :-

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/news-and-updates/press/2010/71-10

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/rep...08/oft1241.pdf

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/rep...08/oft1242.pdf

 

This was the consultation document:-

 

There's a flowchart page 30, easy to follow :- http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/676408/OFT1152con.pdf

 

 

OK T33.

 

Standard book time for changing a clutch is around 3 hours. Allow another for inexperienced dealers i.e. not Land Rover.

 

Obviously labour rates differ so say £50 per hour then that is around £200. This leaves £800.

 

A slipping clutch will be noticeable within a few miles however your car is fitted with a DMS, a dual mass flywheel, which is prone to problems. This is generally covered under any warranty as it comes under flywheel.

 

The problem here is that unless the box is removed you won't know if it is the clutch or the fly wheel.

 

Under SOGA (Rebel 11 take note) and given the mileage covered the onus is on the selling dealer. Had it been 2 months in and say 2000 miles then that would be different . Reality is that if the dealer didn't pick up on it it's the flywheel issue which would account for the £800.

 

The gearshift problem is also known and there is a recognised fix for this.

 

You can subscribe to a thing called TOPIX which gives all the tech info, service bulletins etc for all Land Rovers. Google it and it shows. I think it's a tenner a year.

 

Hope that helps.

[rebel11]

Quite correct, maybe read it again.

 

@ rebel

 

FYI here is what you said that was incorrect

 

The dealer should have serviced it before selling it,

 

There is no compulsion for a dealer to service a vehicle before sale even if a service is overdue.

 

Although it is the case that many do in fact choose to do so.

[trevor33]

OK T33.

 

Standard book time for changing a clutch is around 3 hours. Allow another for inexperienced dealers i.e. not Land Rover.

 

Obviously labour rates differ so say £50 per hour then that is around £200. This leaves £800.

 

A slipping clutch will be noticeable within a few miles however your car is fitted with a DMS, a dual mass flywheel, which is prone to problems. This is generally covered under any warranty as it comes under flywheel.

 

The problem here is that unless the box is removed you won't know if it is the clutch or the fly wheel.

 

Under SOGA (Rebel 11 take note) and given the mileage covered the onus is on the selling dealer. Had it been 2 months in and say 2000 miles then that would be different . Reality is that if the dealer didn't pick up on it it's the flywheel issue which would account for the £800.

 

The gearshift problem is also known and there is a recognised fix for this.

 

You can subscribe to a thing called TOPIX which gives all the tech info, service bulletins etc for all Land Rovers. Google it and it shows. I think it's a tenner a year.

 

Hope that helps.

Thanks for your info.

Spoke to the dealer again today and it looks like they are going to do the repair (hopefully foc).

T33

[heliosuk]

What to watch is when the box is out that they don't just replace the flywheel and leave you with a mostly worn clutch. If it is the clutch then they have to cover the cost, if it's the flywheel, they have to cover the cost though they might be able to offset with the warranty INSURANCE. It's up to them to sort out.

 

If indeed it is the flywheel then try to take advantage of the box being out by getting the clutch measured and replaced with a contribution to show goodwill.

 

If you don't have the details of minimum dimensions just let us know and I'll post them. Also the issue with the gearchange but might need a bit more info to confirm it is the same problem.

[trevor33]

Update. Heard from dealer today, he asked us to take LR to him and he will do repair, even offered a courtesy car while its being done......Result.