Barclays Refuses to Cancel Continuous Payment Authority

[joesoap]

You don't have to report them, but it is a very good idea to do so.

Oh, I will do.

[joesoap]

It seems like I've been abandoned by Barclayshark, Emails/reminders now being ignored.

[huxleypig69]

Quick update on this. I'm completely dumbfounded by the FOS.

 

Long story short, the FOS have ruled partially in my favour by telling the bank to pay me £55 compensation (joke amount!) but have said that although I clearly cancelled the CPA both verbally and in writing that it would be unfair to ask the bank to reverse the transactions (over £400's worth) because I owed the money to The Money Shop!

 

If someone breaks into your house and steals your stuff it does not make it ok just because you owe them money.

 

If the FOS will not make the banks follow the law then who will? If the FOS is to be believed then the only was they will ask a bank to reverse a cancelled CPA is if the company taking the money is doing so illegally (you don't owe them anything). Now that is a different matter, it is theft, not the reversal of a cancelled CPA.

 

So now I have the bank chasing me for the money I'm supposed to owe them again!

 

I'm at my wits end here, the amount of time and effort I have had to invest into correcting THEIR mistake is massive now and I'm not having it any more.

 

My question is, how can I get the law enforced here?

[Tawnyowl]

Hi huxleypig69.

Just read your post over.

What a time you are having.

 

Under the Payment Services Regulations, the debtor can cancel a CPA at any time up to close of business on the day prior to collection, and can do so either with the creditor or with the payment service provider. If monies are taken without informed consent, or otherwise in breach of the agreed authority, the transaction will be unauthorised and the payment service provider must refund the payment and any ancillary charges' oft guide

Barclayshark invested heavily in payday loan companies at one time.

I have been trying to find connections to them now but i believe they now say they do not.

Well if you root round hard enough you usually find somewhere along the line something.

As for the F.O.S.

Well maybe time to go further.

Many people are not happy with some of their decisions.

2. raise your concerns with a senior manager

 

If a team manager hasn't been able to sort out your complaint about the service we have provided, you can ask a senior manager to look into your concerns. The member of staff you are dealing with will tell you how to do this – if you want to take the complaint further.

The senior manager will respond within 20 working days. If we need more time, we will let you know and explain why.

Where relevant, we will tell you how we will put things right – and how we plan to make sure the mistakes do not happen again.

 

what to do if you are still not happy – the independent assessor

 

If we have responded to your complaint about the level of service we have provided, but you’re still not happy, you can contact the independent assessor, Amerdeep Somal.

 

The F.O.S. are recruiting at such a rate.They can hardly keep up it seems.

There must be rushed decisions going on.

 

Maybe this article would interest some.

APFA in talks with FOS over 'inconsistent' case verdicts

 

 

http://www.ifaonline.co.uk/ifaonline/news/2278032/apfa-in-talks-with-fos-over-inconsistent-case-verdicts

 

huxleypig69-You have already gone far.Tried your best.

I am sure you feel like going further.

There are many who would give up.

I feel you are not one of them.

Better to try and fail than not to try at all.

He or she, who dares, may win.

And help others.

Who will go through similar experiences.

 

Quote---

Long story short, the FOS have ruled partially in my favour by telling the bank to pay me £55 compensation (joke amount!) but have said that although I clearly cancelled the CPA both verbally and in writing that it would be unfair to ask the bank to reverse the transactions (over £400's worth) because I owed the money to The Money Shop!

 

If someone breaks into your house and steals your stuff it does not make it ok just because you owe them money.

 

Makes sense to me.

You cancelled the CPA in writing and verbally.

It is not unfair to reverse.

The banks must learn that when cancelled the CPA is cancelled.

In fact the sooner CPAs are cancelled ,full stop the better.

How much are the banks making on the back of this problem.

 

Let us not forget this.Same in America

At first blush, processing automatic withdrawals hardly seems like a source of profit. But many customers are already on shaky financial footing. The withdrawals often set off a cascade of fees from problems like overdrafts. Roughly 27 percent of payday loan borrowers say that the loans caused them to overdraw their accounts, according to a report released this month by the Pew Charitable Trusts. THAT FEE INCOME IS COVETED.

 

I am retreating now,i am banging on the keyboard to hard now.

Does this mean i am getting angry.

I had better calm down.

I wish you well whatever you decide to do.

Will not make you feel better.

But i have just read about a Barclays employee.

A former Barclays Bank employee has been jailed for stealing £127,000 from accounts to meet payday loans she took out .Over three years she withdrew 5 k a time.

Tawnyowl.

Edited August 22, 2013 by tawnyowl

[huxleypig69]

TawnyOwl, thank you very much for your reply and advice contained therein.

 

You are right, I am not the type to be put off by waffle and excuses and I will take it far as I can.

 

Following on from your advice I have raised my concerns with progressively higher levels of the FOS but all they seem to say is 'The Ombudsman's decision is final, we can't look at the detail of your case and it can't be changed'. Trotted out parrot fashion, hiding behind that as an excuse for avoiding the issue. So I very clearly point out to them from now on that I do not want the final decision changed, indeed, it serves as a shining example of their ineptitude. I want to know why they are not following the law regarding cancelled CPA transactions? As simple as that.

 

Regarding the processing of automatic withdrawals, I was promised that it was impossible to be placed into an overdraft (the very reason I took out a basic account) and on 4 occasion The Money Shop tried and failed to do so due to lack of funds. Then when the whole amount of the loan (plus charges and interest) was allowed to be taken out, the bank gave the excuse that balance checks are not conducted every time (which I dispute) and could provide no answer as to why The Money Shop were refused on 4 previous occasions. No reason - don't know. Pass. Next question.

 

But more to the point, what it amounts to is being forced to borrow money from the banks without asking for it or wanting it and with their interest and charges added on top of it (£6 A DAY). So everybody except you wins here - the payday loan companies get their money, interest and charges paid and the banks get to forcibly loan that to you, plus, once again, their interest and charges added on top. It's all a legalised fraud.

 

When you look at the whole 'complaints process' it is often the banks' mistake (definitely in my case) but it is you being punished for it (credit score damage, stress through threats of court action, harassment from debt collectors etc). Then when it takes hours of your life, time and effort to try to correct it, it is only you who is NOT getting compensated!

 

You should see the replies I have been getting from the banks and FOS, they're nothing short of complete disdain, the language used is 'slippery' in the extreme with what seems like every effort made to NOT answer the questions.

 

I just don't know what else to say, I'm gobsmacked. I'd really love to publish it all just so the world can see how appallingly bad it all is.

 

I've complained to the FCA about the FOS not following the law and their reply is even more laughable - once again stating that they have no power to overturn an FOS decision and that I should go seek legal advice from the CAB! Then they go on to say that the FCA appoints the FOS's board of directors to ensure the FOS's independence from the FCA but the FCA approves the FOS's budget! So how is that independent?! Most laughably, they have said that the FOS IS ultimately accountable to the FCA but their rules are only intended to be guidelines and they cannot comment on how the FOS choose to interpret those rules!!! Oh my life, how does make them accountable then?! And there is no 'interpretation' of the rules, they are very clear, simple and black and white.

 

I am sick to the back teeth of getting fobbed off like this, it's completely inexcusable. All from bodies supposedly setup to be independent and to assure fairness. Why make up rules, guidelines, laws (whatever semantic game you want to play) if they 1) will not be followed and 2) those bodies are not accountable for not following them?

 

It seems to me that the whole point here is to look like they are fair and independent when they are, in reality, not even close. They all seem to be on the same side. Isn't is a bit odd when you look at the number of FOS complaints upheld against the number that are not? The banks have it right most of the time it seems! Remember too that complaints to the FOS have (in most cases) already gone through the banks' complaints procedure so when it gets to the FOS complaints stage the customer must really have a problem. Add into that equation that many, many people will be put off by the whole hassle and added stress of complaining to the FOS and it makes it even worse. The FOS only ever see complaints from customers who have real grievances but still the majority of decisions are not upheld.

 

I really am getting increasingly angry, frustrated and exasperated by the whole debacle. It's like complaining to the SS that Hitler has reneged on his peace treaties and getting passed from panzer division to panzer division and if you're lucky you might end up getting a letter from Goebbels telling you that they'll do what they like.

Edited September 6, 2013 by huxleypig69
Spelling Error!

[Tawnyowl]

Hi huxleypig69-

I have only just spotted your post.Shame on me.

I have been busy with the protests in Cities and Towns today with the payday loan problems.

Just letting you know i am around.

Just having a cup of tea and a small break.

I will be back

Shortly

 

Just letting you know i am back and reading your post a few times.

I am finding it fascinating.

I am proud of you for having written this post.And so well.

Raises questions that still need resolving

I will read it a few times more.

Get it in my head.

I will edit this out later when thought of a few things.And answered

MMM-the more i read it the better i like it.

Will break it down a touch in a moment.

 

Quote-

1- You are right, I am not the type to be put off by waffle and excuses and I will take it far as I can.

Answer- Good news let us see how far we can go.

 

2- 'The Ombudsman's decision is final, we can't look at the detail of your case and it can't be changed'

Answer- Just in case-

If we have responded to your complaint about the level of service we have provided, but you’re still not happy, you can contact the independent assessor, Amerdeep Somal.

 

3-I want to know why they are not following the law regarding cancelled CPA transactions? As simple as that.

Answer-Time to ask them.And see their reply

 

If i make any boobs tell me after i have answered.I am only a supporter not a expert.But enjoy having a go ,like you.I will carry on now.

 

4-Regarding the processing of automatic withdrawals, I was promised that it was impossible to be placed into an overdraft (the very reason I took out a basic account) and on 4 occasion The Money Shop tried and failed to do so due to lack of funds. Then when the whole amount of the loan (plus charges and interest) was allowed to be taken out, the bank gave the excuse that balance checks are not conducted every time (which I dispute) and could provide no answer as to why The Money Shop were refused on 4 previous occasions. No reason - don't know. Pass. Next question.

 

Answer-

.I see you cancelled your CPA in writing and verbally.

We really want to ask some deep questions to the bank.And get answers.Not fobbed off.

Some times i feel the banks are making more on charges fees etc than launching new products.

 

5-When you look at the whole 'complaints process' it is often the banks' mistake (definitely in my case) but it is you being punished for it (credit score damage, stress through threats of court action, harassment from debt collectors etc). Then when it takes hours of your life, time and effort to try to correct it, it is only you who is NOT getting compensated!

 

Answer

We need to get your bank to admit their mistake.

Then whether they like it or not.We will get them to change your credit file.They can do this.

And maybe go for a touch more compo.Not much but fair to you i feel.

The FOS has told the bank to give you £55 so maybe you are half way there.

Just need to give them one hell of a push.

A mission ahead of us,but worth going for.

The wording of emails letters etc need thinking about and sending recorded and emails saved.

The FCA and FOS i feel have not tried hard enough.Or taken enough time to look at things properly.

We need to let them know this situation is not acceptable.

 

6--I really am getting increasingly angry, frustrated and exasperated by the whole debacle. It's like complaining to the SS that Hitler has reneged on his peace treaties and getting passed from panzer division to panzer division and if you're lucky you might end up getting a letter from Goebbels telling you that they'll do what they like.

 

Answer-

I really like the way you put things over.

When i feel,you care about things,these kind of comments appear.

I am still smiling reading that comment.

 

Will that do for now.

And if anyone else would like to offer advice and support help please do.

And well done.For getting this far.

And perhaps you would like to see some TV coverage of today's protests against payday loans in Britain.

http://www.itv.com/news/granada/update/2013-09-07/protests-against-pay-day-loans-and-bedroom-tax/

 

And one more thing between you and me.No one else around:roll:

When i came to answer your post today i was pretty tired after following the

protests around the country and writing about them.

Apologies for the slight error i made with the CPA answer.

Corrected now.I feel you know what i mean.

Tawnyowl.

Edited September 8, 2013 by tawnyowl

[huxleypig69]

Hello guy/gals

 

I have news on this case. And I am just dumbstruck.

 

So the FOS and the bank are refusing to reverse the CPA transactions that everyone agrees I clearly cancelled. Everyone (even the bank) agree I cancelled it. They refuse on the grounds that it was for a 'genuine transaction' (if it was not genuine then we would be talking about theft/fraud). So they're saying it does not matter if you cancel a CPA, if they subsequently allow the transaction to go through (no matter what the amount or your available funds) then they will not reverse it if it is a 'genuine transaction'!!

 

They ARE wrong about this, right?

 

So my only option now is BCOBS court action which I will be starting in due course. If the FOS and the banks will not stick to their own rules then I am going to have to force them to.

 

I am also claiming damages for their unfair practise of promising me it was impossible to ever go overdrawn on my account then letting The Money Shop take over £300.00 when all I had was £5.00!! Then stinging me for charges etc!

 

I am also taking them to task for sending my details to many DCA's whilst the case was 1) with the FOS and 2) now - as in, the rules state that they are not allowed to do this if the debt is in dispute. Which it clearly is.

 

I am also taking them to task for threatening to close my account should I exercise my 1st Right of Appropriation.

 

The list of their wrongdoings (both breaches of the rules and unfair practise) is really quite long now. The amount of time and effort I have had to put into this rubbish when they were in the wrong to start with is just incredible. All going on the bill...

[renegadeimp]

Ill be interested in how this court case progresses. Im betting that once you issue a claim against them, and they see your POC's and supporting evidence, they'll attempt to settle out of court with a without prejudice demand, or even a 'gagging order'.

[huxleypig69]

I am just wondering what is a reasonable amount to go for. I have poured well over 100 hours into this and there's my credit score damage, DCA's hounding me (when they shouldn't even have my details according to their own rules), having to find a new bank etc. This has been going on for nearly 3 years now. How much is a solicitor going to cost?!

 

What they're saying is, the CPA rules are not relevant. At all. Because their version of allowed CPA cancellations are only when it is fraud. They're just crazily digging their heels in!

 

Here's a great quote from my most recent letter from Halifax:

 

"...However, as the said CPA payments were genuine payments, I can confirm you benefitted from it leaving your account."

 

:lol:

 

Yes, you read that right.

 

Remember, at this stage they had already put me into an unplanned overdraft (unfairly in my opinion) and I had cancelled the CPA.

[renegadeimp]

I dont think you need a solicitor unless you think you are going to have problems with your evidence. We have some very experience people on these forums, so sit tight and lets see what they advise. If you get stuck with your POC's and defence, create a new thread with all your info, and we can advise there. Plus you can always report your thread to the site team if you are overlooked or arent getting any decent advise

[citizenB]

I have flagged your thread for attention of site team. You might not get too many responses as this a BH weekend.

 

Is your response from the FOS from an Ombudsman proper or are you still with the adjudicator ?

[citizenB]

If this was an adjudicator decision, you do not have to accept it - you can ask for it to be reviewed/escalated to an Ombudsman proper.

[goodatresearch]

I've found that FOS make some very illogical decisions which don't follow the law or their own rules. They argue fairness, but it appears to be very one sided in the banks favour. The ombudsman is no better. You can point out word for word what rules the bank has breached and ombudsman make no reference to your points and just provide illogical waffle. I hope you take this further.

[huxleypig69]

I've found that FOS make some very illogical decisions which don't follow the law or their own rules. They argue fairness, but it appears to be very one sided in the banks favour. The ombudsman is no better. You can point out word for word what rules the bank has breached and ombudsman make no reference to your points and just provide illogical waffle. I hope you take this further.

 

Oh WOW.

 

EXACTLY this.

 

The say it would be 'unfair' to the bank to make them repay the cancelled CPA. But all the things I have said are unfair (like the unarranged overdraft they forced me into) they quickly jump onto it being hidden in their terms and conditions, unfair or not. I have sent them the exact rules, cut and pasted, along with lots of backing from the FCA etc.

 

The FOS are not fit for service.

 

The decision has gone all the way through the FOS procedure and they've gone along with it! Their reply to it was (and I have this in writing) 'it is not the job of the FOS to enforce laws'!!

 

I have since complained to the FCA about the FOS and they said they have no jurisdiction over the FOS but they have noted (what does that mean?) the Halifax are not refunding cancelled CPA's.

 

The bank have also said that my 1st Right of Appropriation is to be ignored because I benefitted from being forced deeper into debt I never asked for...go figure.

 

Having looked at the list of possible BCOBS actions it is like they are going through the list, ticking them off. Well, not quite but they have been very, very naughty. They know it (or maybe the genuinely think they are right) but won't admit it.

[goodatresearch]

The only thing FOS is good for is slowing down DCAs/credit card companies whilst you get your evidence together. One bright spark at FOS told me a CCA was enforceable when that wasn't the basis of my complaint. Didn't like it when I asked whether she was a judge who also worked for FOS (as FOS cannot rule in points if law). Didn't like it when I said FOS was misrepresenting their judicial authority and shouldn't mislead members of the public who have a right to believe they know what their talking about.