?/Hillesden claimform - old LLoyd OD debt

[marloes]

Hi. Received a claim form from Northampton County Court stating that Hillesden Securities are claiming I owe them £2k. Particulars as follows...

 

The Claimant's claim is in respect of a credit facility provide by Lloyds TSB at the defendants request on Sept 2003.

The agreement was subsequently defaulted.

 

Failure to meet payments resulted in the account being terminated.

 

In May 2011, all legal and beneficial interest for the monies was assigned to Hillesden Securities Ltd.

The defendant was duly notified in writing of the assignment and that a balance of £1900 was due.

The balance remains owning from the defendant.

 

They bought this debt from Lloyds who I had an account with.

The account with Lloyds was opened in 2003 and the particulars of claim even include the exact date in Sept 2003 - so I'm hoping this is statute barred.

 

However, I did make a token payment of £15 to them in June of 2006 so I believe from what I've read that the 6 years runs from that time.

I have ignored them ever since.

 

Does anyone know how stringently records of payment are kept by Hillesden? Is it worth giving the Statute barred defence a go?? There are only a couple of months left and another six years will be up again.

Any advice much appreciated on what to do next.

[asokn]

A defence that the debt is statute barred must be specifically pleaded and, as you *know* the debt is not statute barred, I wouldn't suggest you try to mislead the court.

[marloes]

Thanks for the reply.

Since a defence of statute barred doesn't seem to be feasible, what advice can you give me to proceed?

 

The date of service on the claim form is the 28th of March so I'm time limited.

Do I send a CCA request and if so to who?

Hillesden have brought the debt from Lloyds.

Is it too late for a request for CCA and if so should I go for a request under the CPR?

 

Are there any legal differences between credit card debts and overdraft debt that I need to know about??

 

Just spoke to National Debtline who have told me there is little point asking for a CCA for an overdraft as there isn't one.

 

Also that I should not try and defend as it's too risky because of possible costs,

also that it's likely that being on benefits and unable to offer substantial amount that I will end up with a charging order on my property.

Don't know what to do.

Please HELP.

[asokn]

Putting any legal jargon to one side, why do you say you don't owe some or all of the money?

[marloes]

Not sure I owe what they say I owe.

Max amount allowed with overdraft was £1250 but they're claiming over £2000.

 

Also POC are very similar to bigdebtor1 so am wondering if should go down same route.

 

No default notice,

no statement as to figure claimed etc.

 

Very worried as don't want CCJ

but also don't want to get hit with costs as has happened in another case I'm involved in because of naivety.

 

Don't want to be bullied into submission but feel as though it might just be the less painful option to admit. Law just seems overwhelming...

 

Please can someone give some advice??

Only have a couple of days left to make a decision whether to admit or defend.

 

As the POC are vague and mention no documents would I be right in asking for docs under CPR 31.14?? This was an account with overdraft - are overdrafts covered under CCA?

[marloes]

Excuse my interruption on this thread but I would be very grateful if some knowledgeable bods would give me some advice on my thread which has thus far received little advice.Thanks.

 

Claim-form-received-from-Hillesden-Securities. Marloes

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?345403-Claim-form-received-from-Hillesden-Securities

 

Link to marloes' thread for those wishing to help

[citizenB]

Popping in from another thread.

 

Hmm, so you removed the SB route by paying an amount in June 2006.

 

This is an overdraft you say ? In which case there will be no agreement. Although I understand sometimes there might have been a "Facility " letter.

 

They would not have been required to issue a Default Notice. Although they would have been required to give you a Formal demand.

 

Did you receive a Notice of assignment of the account ?

 

I am not sure if you would be able to reclaim any charges in respect of this account either.

 

If you admit the debt and offer a reasonable installment repayment plan.. then no further action would be (or should be) taken on any charge whilst you were adhering to the order.

 

Out of interest, what was the point of making a £15.00 token payment if you werent going to proceed with further payments ?

[marloes]

Thanks for your reply.

 

I made the small payment as they kept hounding me day after day and at the weekends so I hoped they might give me some peace.

 

Didn't know at the time that I wouldn't be in a position to pay later as was expecting to get a job.

 

I have kept my original statements and the last time I used the account it was just under it's limit.

 

The amount now being claimed has what I presume are £800 in charges added and I don't remember receiving nor can I find statements after I stopped using the account to show such high charges were being added.

 

As the PoC are vague and mention only the assignment should I ask them to replead?

I have an assignment letter received last August but have no idea if it's valid.

 

My mistake

- have just checked again and the payment I made was on a credit card account that is with Hillesden so I'm unsure if this account is statute barred or not.

 

The advisor at the national debtline said that the 6yrs runs from the default date (can't find any default notice) - but on CAG I've read it's the last payment plus one month so I'm a bit confused.

[citizenB]

Statute barred is from the first missed payment + 6 years

 

So you need to establish when the account was defaulted.

 

Many DCAs will argue that limitation accrues from the time when the "default notice" is issued. It does not. Simple as that.

 

Limitation clock starts ticking from when the payment is due and not paid not when they send a default notice.

 

We see often that CRA entries will date 5 or 6 months ahead of when the payment was missed.

 

People need to be sure that they aren’t being hoodwinked and that the DCA is extending limitation so they can sue when they are not allowed to.

 

You could send a CPR18 request along the lines of the following.

 

xx

Your Name

Your Address

IN THE XXXXXXXXX county court

CLAIM NO:

BETWEEN:

XXXXXXXXXX

Claimant

and

XXXXXXXXXXX

Defendant

PART 18 REQUEST FOR FURTHER INFORMATION

To: XXXXXXXXXX (claimant)

　

Please answer the following questions:

1. Upon what date was the last payment made on the account?

2. What was the source, method and amount of the payment?

3 Was a Formal demand issued and on what date?

　

　

TAKE NOTICE THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO ANSWER THE ABOVE REQUEST

WITHIN 14 DAYS OF SERVICE OF THE SAME UPON YOU

 

HTH

[citizenB]

What was the date of issue of the claim.

 

Have you acknowledged service ?

 

Can you please post up or point me to the post if you have that contains the Particulars of Claim against you.

[Always Struggling]

Particulars as follows...

 

The Claimant's claim is in respect of a credit facility provide by Lloyds TSB at the defendants request on Sept 2003. The agreement was subsequently defaulted. Failure to meet payments resulted in the account being terminated. In May 2011, all legal and beneficial interest for the monies was assigned to Hillesden Securities Ltd. The defendant was duly notified in writing of the assignment and that a balance of £1900 was due. The balance remains owning from the defendant.

 

Maybe I'm being too literal but I hope someone could clarify something lol

 

If they state 'The agreement' was dafaulted does this not imply there was a piece of paper with a signature agreeing to something?

 

It also says 'the account was terminated' .... I would have thought a bank account would be closed (with monies owing) rather than temrinated.

 

If they are saying there was an agreement can you not ask for a copy under cpr31.14? and also if they say terminated that would imply some sort of notification of termination. So you could ask for this as well perhaps?

 

Not asking for anything legal but I am curious to understand the terminology being used on the POC and if it's all pretty standard or not

[marloes]

Thanks for replies.

 

Citizen B the date of service was the 28th of March,

I have acknowledged online and now sent a request for docs under CPR 31.14/15.

 

I'm confused about how the law operates in relation to overdrafts, as you say there is no agreement.

I've looked on the Office of Fair Trading website for info and that says the law was changed in 2010 and that the CCA rules also apply to overdrafts although it also says there are 'special rules' relating to OD's.

 

Like Always Struggling I thought there must be some sort of agreement as it seems mad that there wouldn't be some kind of contract offering protection to both bank and customer. Confusing and perplexing.

 

I have other debts that I'm now worried will come back to haunt me,

I want to be prepared in case other claims come winging their way to me.

 

Is it a good idea to do SAR's to my other creditors or should I let sleeping dogs lie?

Advisor at Nat debt said leave alone but as I said I would like to be prepared.

 

Also my debts have done the rounds of numerous DCA's and been sold on so if I SAR the original lendor would the DCA'S get notified??

[citizenB]

28th March.. is that date of service or date of ISSUE !

 

timeline is as follows:

 

Assuming date of service was 28th March. It would make the date of issue 23rd March.

 

Date of issue 23/03/2012 + 5 for service = 28/03/2012 + 14 to acknowledge = 11/04/2012 + 14 to submit defence = 25/04/2012

 

If the date of issue was 28th March then of course you have 5 days extra in hand.

 

Have you acknowledged? If the date of issues was 23/03 then you should have already done so.. actually if it was 28/03 then you should have acknowledged today !!

 

 

 

Sending SAR.

 

 

How important do you think information will be to you in the future?

 

Most creditors will have conveniently shredded anything that was older than 6 years.. or claim they have and you would have to prove otherwise. So the earlier you obtain the information.. the further back you will receive from.

[marloes]

Thanks CitizenB.

Date of issue was 28th + 5 and I acknowledged yesterday.

 

Just checked my credit files on experian and equifax and two of the debts I'm being chased for aren't listed as well over 6 yrs so shows DCA's are hoping I'm an ignoramus.

 

Can't access Noddle for some reason.

[citizenB]

Phew, I was beginning to worry that you had missed the first deadline

[marloes]

That would have been a pretty disastrous start, lol. Only good thing to come out of this is that I've stopped doing an ostrich in regard to my debts. Every cloud......

[citizenB]

Yes, it is actually good that you have started to deal with this situation..

[vint1954]

Sorry for being a bit dense here, but is the court claim for the overdraft, credit card or both?

[marloes]

vint1954 - it's an over draft.

 

I've received a bog standard response to my CPR 31.14 request ( 'letter received- waiting for docs from original lender')

 

Following advice given to others in similar predicament tried to call DCA solicitors for agreement to extension of time.

Receptionist at Solicitors told me to call DCA.

 

Rang DCA who agreed to extension verbally and via email and have asked for written confirmation.

 

My question is will the court accept an email or will only printed letter do and is it better to have their solicitors agree??

Have 5 days left and doubt whether letter will arrive in time.

Haven't rung court as yet but will do tomorrow.

 

Any advice??

[vint1954]

I would be inclined to ring the court and check if they need a letter or will the e mail surfice.

 

Dont miss the dates though.

[Andyorch]

Hi Marloes

 

Rather pointless requesting any CPR on an Overdraft because there is no paperwork on a current account, except for statements, communication,s between yourself and the bank, re any proposals to clear the O/D and also Notice served under sections 76(1) and 98(1) this is the recall and termination of the facility, which allows a further 28 days to propose or repay.

 

So I am not sure what paperwork any extension would allow the Claimant to find.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[marloes]

Hi Andy.

Thanks for post.

Haven't received any statements of account for several years and no memory of any recall/ termination letters.

the amount owed has gone up by over £900 since the original lender had the account.

 

Do the DCA have to provide a credit facility letter to enforce debt?

do they have to show when the cause of action began as there is no default on my credit file

- there is a note of account satisfied which I assume relates to when the debt was bought by DCA.

 

Are there any threads relating to overdrafts on the forum that I should read?

I have searched for overdraft but there doesn't appear to be any consensus overall.

Presumably they need some docs to enforce the debt?

[Andyorch]

What did you request by way of CPR? and which post# is their P.o.C in ?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[vint1954]

What did you request by way of CPR? and which post# is their P.o.C in ?

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Post No 1 Andy,

The Claimant's claim is in respect of a credit facility provide by Lloyds TSB at the defendants request on Sept 2003. The agreement was subsequently defaulted. Failure to meet payments resulted in the account being terminated. In May 2011, all legal and beneficial interest for the monies was assigned to Hillesden Securities Ltd. The defendant was duly notified in writing of the assignment and that a balance of £1900 was due. The balance remains owning from the defendant.

 

They bought this debt from Lloyds who I had an account with. The account with Lloyds was opened in 2003 and the particulars of claim even include the exact date in Sept 2003 - so I'm hoping this is statute barred. However, I did make a token payment of £15 to them in June of 2006 so I believe from what I've read that the 6 years runs from that time.I have ignored them ever since. Does anyone know how stringently records of payment are kept by Hillesden? Is it worth giving the Statute barred defence a go?? There are only a couple of months left and another six years will be up again. Any advice much appreciated on what to do next.