Wages question re holiday pay

[sidspop]

Sorry for posting here, I realise that CAG doesn't generally do wages problems, but I am hoping that it will be allowed in, and somebody can assist, so in advance I thank you.

 

The small firm I work for (two bosses, 4 workers) has a policy that the 20 days annual holiday entitlement per annum runs January to December. It has always been the practice that any holidays not taken are paid at the end of the year. We cannot carry them over.

I am owed 7 days holiday, but the boss has been dragging his feet, and not paid yet. Two colleagues are owed 8 each.

The past week has been very quiet, with little work on, so I was instructed to stay at home and wait for a phone call if any jobs came in (re-active maintenance stuff). I have been out on 4 days to various jobs, in the region of 20 hours.

 

Here is the problem,

I have been told by a colleague who spoke to the boss today on the phone, that he intends to use our accrued holiday pay for last year to pay us for the days off we have had this week. This I find very strange, it is as though I am paying myself for not being at work.

 

I wonder how I stand, legally.

 

BTW, there is no contract of employment, company handbook etc.

 

Thanks.

[numbers666]

Hi Sids,

 

Few issues..

 

Normal practise for most companies is unused hols cannot be carried over. The fact that you are paid for unused is unusual as is not normal practise. The only exceptions to this I have seen is if due to

workload the company has been unable to honour commitments and pay these as a ex-grat payment.

 

I assume the actual holiday entitlement is 20 days leave plus 8 BH = 28 which is the minimum under law ? If not this is against employment law.

 

You could say that custom and practise dictate the payment of the owed 2011 hols if this has been going on for a few years.

 

It seems you were sent home due to the lack of work this week. Whilst I can see the benefit to the company if they believe they can lay off staff without pay, I believe that under normal practise you would not normally be given payment for un-used hols.

 

If your boss is set on using these hols as payment towards a short week, without issuing a grievance and action for unfair deductions of wages, you are stuck, especially as either of these would cause damage to your relationship with the boss / company.

 

You should have contract, terms of employment etc - these are set down under employment law and issuing of action at employment trib. would address this.

 

In this case I would not advocate action and take it on the chin....but this year dont leave any used hols!!

 

N

[sidspop]

Sorry, just re-read my original post. I am owed 7 days holiday pay, not 7 days carried over holidays. Hope this clarifies.

 

Thanks for the speedy reply.

You are correct in holiday entitlements, 20 plus 8.

For the past 4 years since I have been with the firm, we have been paid for untaken holidays. Due to the nature of the business, we all tend to work as much as possible, knowing that untaken holidays are paid for, which tends to make a nice little wage packet in time to clear the Christmas bills. Last year for example, I ended up with 13 days holiday pay. But I digress.

It would be very difficult to plan holidays so that none can be left at the end of the year, due to the nature of the job. The way it has been has beneffitted all parties, and we don't have a problem with it.

I don't really like the idea of taking it on the chin, (I was actually thinking of another part of the anatomy). In effect, I would be loosing about £375, which I cannot afford to do.

 

There is another point, I have been called out 6 times over the week. If we are called out at weekends, we get a bung, plus pay. Surely if I am on holiday, I should expect the same rates? It seems like the boss is winning both ways.

Sitting at home waiting for a call out is non productive, I could be out doing foreigners earning a lot more than I do at work. Surely, I am either on holiday, or not.

 

Thanks

 

In previous years, any lay-off time has been paid at normal rate, with no loss of holiday entitlement.

Edited January 27, 2012 by sidspop

[numbers666]

Hiya Sid,

 

Thanks for clarifying...

 

Believe me, I would always advocate grievance followed by ET action...certainly for custom and practise over previous hols being paid / lack of contract et all.

 

I understand the loss of $ and I would feel that I was being shafted () ...

 

Of course any approach like this can backfire and result in permament layoff !

 

If you are good terms with boss(es) maybe a pint and an informal chat , you even say, look if cashflow is tight at mo, why not pay me later when it gets warmer??

 

Just a thought

[jacketpotato]

I would have thought this is illegal on the basis that it brings you below the statutory minimum of 28 days per year (if you work 5 days a week). If your 2010 money is being used for 2011 holiday, then you are only getting paid once for two sets of holiday.

 

Unless your employer intends to pay you for the 2011 holiday as well and/or let you take extra holiday, the only argument in his favour would be that you sacrified the holiday by not taking it and there was no agreement to pay you in lieu of holiday. But this doesn't seem to be the basis of his argument.