Made up fees and council are ignoring me -Rossendales refunded wrongful charges ***result***

[st200boy]

Sorry guys but can anyone explain exactly what a form 5 is and what the possible outcome would be. I've read the form on hmcs but I am not clear about what this might mean for the bailiff.

 

Thanks in advance

ST

[brassnecked]

The Form 5 is where the COUNCIL, having investigated find their bailiffs actions wanting, so THEY complain to the magistrates about him, very rarely done, now why would that be? could it be because the council remain 100% liable for any wrongful action or fees added by their agent the bailiff? Answers on a postcard.

[outlawla]

brassnecked has got them sussed.

 

The letter in this post (#48) might explain a bit about the Form 5 and how it works. I think there are some links to various regulations within the letter that might be useful.

 

This one explains it Public Law Project – pdf (p19 Certification)

Edited January 19, 2012 by outlawla

[st200boy]

Thanks for the quick replys.

 

I must say that without all your help I probably would not have been able to get this far. It is very much appreciated.

 

Thanks

ST

[st200boy]

Just a quick question,

 

Is a Walking Possession Agreement the same as a Notice of Distress?

 

Thanks

ST

[hallowitch]

Is a Walking Possession Agreement the same as a Notice of distress?

 

NO

its actually 2 different forms (on the one paper )

At one time they were issued separately Form 7 notice of seizure of goods and inventory Form 8 walking possession agreement

This comes under the distress for rent rules 1988

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1988/2050/contents/made

Have a scroll down to Appendix 2 Forms you will see

FORM 7

 

Notice of Seizure of Goods and Inventory Distress for Rent Rules 1988:Rule 12Rent 7

FORM 8

 

Form of walking- possession agreement (Request not to remove goods) Distress for Rent Rules 1988 Form 8

[st200boy]

Thanks Hallowitch

 

In the letter I received from Rossers they said they had enclosed a copy of the Notice of Distress but it wasn't in the envelope!!

I assumed this was the same document as the WPA I received from the council in November so i didn't push them for a copy. This was the first paperwork I had seen regarding the levies the bailiffs had alledgedly made on 2 cars that I do not actually own. Should I write to Rossers and ask them to provide a copy or should I just wait until the council have completed their investigations into my stage 2 complaint.

 

Also the copy of the WPA's that I received from the council don't even have my address on them. If it wasn't for the fact that I know the owner of the cars, the WPA's could belong to anybody. They also look different to the one above.

 

I'm confused this is the first time Rossers have mentioned a Notice of Distress!

[hallowitch]

I have a copy of a rossendale notice of distress in front of me

I will do my best to scan and post it

 

Also the copy of the WPA's that I received from the council don't even have my address on them (can you explain this)

[st200boy]

I noticed on the WPA you posted there was a part that said "address of tennant" the copy of the alledged WPA that I received does not have a section for the debtors address, all that is written on my copy is a make and model of car (which is wrong on both) the bailiff has signed and dated it then at the bottom it says amount for which distress is made and he has signed and dated it again.

The amounts on the WPA are also incorrect.

 

It doesn't even have my name on it!

[hallowitch]

the one i have rossendales has the name and address clients re bailiffs ref (typed )

 

the Jacobs one i have name address bailiff ref council tax ref hand written by the bailiff

 

I would assume that the notice of distress should have your name and address on it

 

 

IF you are going round in circles tell them give you a final decision because you are going to the ombudsman

 

 

d id you ask the council if this was photo stat of the original that was allegedly left at your address at the time of the levy (because thats what it should be )

[st200boy]

Thats just it Hallowitch, I have never received a Notice of Distress thats why I assumed it was the same as a WPA.

 

I didn't even know any levies had been carried out until I requested a breakdown of charges, I didn't ask the council if they were photostats of the original.

 

The copies of the WPA's that I have received from the council don't have much info on at all, should I ask for copies of the Notice of Distress. At first Rossers said they left them with my son then they changed their story and said they posted them through my door. They actually did neither because on the dates and times they have given there was an adult at home and no-one came to the house.

[tomtubby]

I have only quickly glanced over this tread. I have not posted earlier as the advice that you are receiving is EXCELLENT.

 

I would strongly suggest that you make a request to Rossendales for a copy of the detailed electronic computerised record/screen shot of your account. This should be quite revealing.....

[brassnecked]

I have only quickly glanced over this tread. I have not posted earlier as the advice that you are receiving is EXCELLENT.

 

I would strongly suggest that you make a request to Rossendales for a copy of the detailed electronic computerised record/screen shot of your account. This should be quite revealing.....

 

 

So if not done already, send the Acme Bailiff letter to Rossers asking for what tomtubby has suggested:

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

To:

Acme bailiff Co

Bailiff House

Ref: Account No: 123456

Dear Sir

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

This includes:

a:- a copy of the detailed electronic computerised record/screen shot of my account

b:- the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

c:- the reason for the fee.

d:- the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

e:- the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated

f:- the date of the Certification.

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

I require this information within 14 days.

Yours faithfully

Ripped off customer"

[st200boy]

Thanks Tomtubby and Brassnecked,

 

I will request the electronic screenshots asap

[st200boy]

The council said they would send me a full report on their investigation by 10th Feb, they had already said they needed an extra 2 wks to investigate my stage 2 complaint.

Its now the 12th and I haven't heard anything, my question is, do I allow them even more time or do I progress this further?

 

I can't understand why its taking so long, I have sent them evidence which proves the Rossers bailiff is a liar, I would have thought it was a foregone conclusion that they have stolen my money and attempted to steal more!!

 

Any suggestions

 

Thanks guys

ST

[brassnecked]

Send them a reminder that they are out of time, and escalation is imminent

[st200boy]

Thanks brassnecked, is my next step the LGO or the courts?

[brassnecked]

Thanks brassnecked, is my next step the LGO or the courts?

LGO I would say, after warning them and giving them say 7 days, after which you will be going to LGO, as they have obviously paid no heed to your complaint. However I'm sure other Caggers willl also help before you do.

[st200boy]

Had my response from my final stage complaint, I am actually speechless

 

Basically the council confirm all charges are correct, all the dates of the alledged visits are correct and backed up by digital bluetooth pens!!

 

Basically they will not uphold my complaint because they say they cannot find any evidence to substantiate my complaint. The council have said that all Rossers admin is in order and that the issues I have raised are very difficult to prove or disprove, so what about the evidence I sent them, that must not count.

 

I really need to make a lot of noise now and bring this to the attention of people that have some clout and that will actually look at my evidence. I am thinking of taking them straight to court or MP or newspapers but would welcome any advice as at the moment I am so angry I cannot think straight. They have basically called me a liar even though I have paperwork that proves I am telling the truth.

Edited February 14, 2012 by st200boy

[outlawla]

......Basically they will not uphold my complaint because they say they cannot find any evidence to substantiate my complaint. The council have said that all Rossers admin is in order and that the issues I have raised are very difficult to prove or disprove, so what about the evidence I sent them, that must not count......

 

Have the council specified what evidence they need to substantiate your complaint, and why the evidence you sent was not sufficient?

[seanamarts]

I would now get a complaint off to the LGO.

 

I would also let the council know that this is what you are doing, also request under what legislation does it state that they can charge certain fee's, ie waiting fee. I know Rossendales have an agreement with councils that this fee can be charged but no where does it state that they can charge this fee.

[brassnecked]

Surely even if a "Waiting Fee " is in the agreement between council and bailiffs , as it isn't expressly permitted in the legislation, it would be unlawful?

As in they make it up as they go along, and tough it out until forced to remove the charge.

[st200boy]

Hi all Just been going over the letter from the council with a fine tooth comb in order to prepare my letters to LGO and CEO and have found even more discrepancies with the dates and charges.

 

I feel a lot better today, this whole business has been getting me down lately, knowing I am telling the truth and its all become one big cover up by the council and Rossers was taking its toll.

 

Thanks for all your support guys, its picked me back up and I live to fight another day.

 

Please can I ask, when I take my complaint to the LGO do I have to send copies of the correspondence from Rossers and the council or do they request the info directly from them.

 

Thanks again

ST

[outlawla]

Are you going to complain through the LGO's website?

 

This is the complaint form, link

 

This is what it says regarding sending documents:

 

Normally, we expect you to have used the complaints procedure of the body you wish to complain about before you make a complaint to us. We ask that you only complete this form if you have done this, and that you include a copy of the final letter you have had in response to your complaint to the body concerned...

 

 

Don't want to be negative, but the council will get to see everything you send the LGO, however, you're unlikely to get copies of what your council submits to them.

[st200boy]

Hi Outlawla

 

I have phoned the LGO and they are going to deal with my complaint, I had to give a brief outline of whats happened and the lady said they are going to investigate.

I am not worried about what the council see, I have not got anything to hide unlike them.

 

I really value your input though so thanks for that