advice please... re claimed debt by Capquest old Next Account

[lynd]

thanks.

 

 

they (Lowells) said that they expect to hear from her in 14 days else they will take the matter further to reclaim the debt.

 

 

it still bugs me a little how they can say that Next didn't have the paperwork and then - umpteen days later there it is.

 

 

thanks. I'll send it off on Monday (to Next I guess???).. Do I have to contact (in writing of course) to tell Lowells that I'm doing this and it is still in dispute.

[Bazooka Boo]

The letters lowlifes send out mean nothing, they are simply spat out of the computer at regular intervals.

Sending them anything simply encourages them.

 

Yes send it to Next, ignore the tame gophers.

[lynd]

evening there.

 

 

well Next have sent her paperwork. There's a huge list of transactions and payments and that malarkey and a copy of A credit agreement (note I said A). The credit agreement has a printed signature on behalf of Next.... no customer name, no customer address, no customer account number and no customer signature. Now, bear in mind that Lowells said that Next had a copy of the signed credit agreement wouldn't Next then supply it. What's my next step? Do I contact Next and say 'you haven't sent me the information you said [to Lowells] that you hold - i.e. the signed credit agreement? Or do I (or she) go down the fraud route and if so does anyone know how to start this?

 

 

ta

 

 

Lyn

[Conniff]

Then the agreement is not lawful. A recon must contain everything the original did, including the address but may leave out the signature. It must also contain the T&Cs that the original had as well.

[lynd]

thanks. Lowells had already supplied a copy of the recon agreement (she's at work at the mo - can't remember exactly what that had on it but will check late). I was then advised - because of the possibility of fraud, to get a SAR request to Next and that they should then supply with a photocopy of the original agreement that they (Next said to Lowells) they held - the one with the signature on it. But they supplied a standard credit agreement with nothing on it - no address/name/account number etc and No signature. What I was asking for was a copy of that agreement so I could compare signatures - if they differed or if they didn't exist then it's fraud. What I wanted to know is that do I ask Next to supply that again... or do I go down the fraud route and how to do this... apologies if I sound dense there -

[Conniff]

Tell them that you want an exact duplicate or you will treat their claim as fraudulent and report it as so.

[Bazooka Boo]

Then remind Next, that they MUST supply exact copies of everything they have in relation to this agreement, and you are trying to ascertain if this account was drawn up fraudulently and would appreciate their assistance in the matter before reporting it to the Police.

 

Give them a further 7 days in which to respond with their final decision, after which you will report the matter to plod.

[lynd]

further developments....

 

 

we rang Next who said that they did not have a signed copy of the agreement (Lowells said they did). She went to Police to repeat it as fraud who, basically, didn't want to know and gave her the number of Action Fraud. She rang them, they took details and gave her a reference number but said they'd look into it and, if they find anything, they'd get back to her but there was no guarantee. She rang Next who said it is now recorded as a domestic and she should deal with Lowells, not Next. The itemised list of purchases - a lot of them - the big ones - were ordered after she had left that address.... any advice, as usual, would be most welcome.. I feel this is fighting a lost cause now. I'm willing to go with her to a solicitor if that would help but I'm not sure it would... Am very disappointed with the Police - all this stuff about fraud and they don't want to know - meh

[Bazooka Boo]

Yeah plod won't touch it unless there is any profit in it for them, not at all surprised by their reactions.

 

There is no need to go to a Solicitor, they're a waste of money, there is nothing they do that you can't do yourself with a bit of help off here.

 

Really need to stop corresponding by phone unless the calls are recorded?

You need to have a paper trail of evidence.

 

Send Next a letter giving them the AF ref number and informing them it is being treated as fraud, also that any adverse markers on the credit file should be removed.

Failing that then a ''notice of correction'' needs to be placed against it, which will have to be done by yourself.

[lynd]

Thanks

 

I note you said that she should reply to Next with the AF number.

 

Next say that it's Lowells that she needs to speak to and it's nothing to do with them anymore.

 

Actually, I did read the interesting 'sticky' that Next are prone not to getting credit agreements signed -

[Bazooka Boo]

Well, if Next have washed their hands of it, then IMO I would reciprocate.

 

This is firmly in dispute, lowlifes can jog on, wait until they send you their next threat letter then respond by telling them it is firmly in dispute, Next are aware of this and have been reported to the OFT&TS for passing on a disputed debt, as have Lowlifes for attempting to obtain payment.

 

You deem this matter closed, and no further correspondence will be entered into.

[lynd]

Well, if Next have washed their hands of it, then IMO I would reciprocate.

 

This is firmly in dispute, lowlifes can jog on, wait until they send you their next threat letter then respond by telling them it is firmly in dispute, Next are aware of this and have been reported to the OFT&TS for passing on a disputed debt, as have Lowlifes for attempting to obtain payment.

 

You deem this matter closed, and no further correspondence will be entered into.

 

 

 

Thanks. I've drafted a letter - can you take a look and see if I'm missing something? (ignore joined letters - it doesn't come up like that on the word document)

 

 

 

This letter is in response to my earlier telephone calls toyou.

 

 

 

I asked, because of possible fraud, via a Data SubjectAccess Request, for you to send me all the paperwork you held on the allegeddebt. I specifically asked for a copy ofthe signed credit agreement that would show a signature which, I believe, wasnot my signature. You supplied me with acopy of the credit agreement – or rather a copy of A credit agreement. This had no date, no customer number, noaddress and, more importantly no signature. You also supplied me with a list of transactions many of which had beenmade after I had left the address in XXXXXX.

 

 

 

After calling you, you advised that you did not hold a copyof the signed credit agreement (which, interestingly, according to Lowells PortfolioLtd, you said you did). You then advisedto report the matter of fraud to the Police, which I did and they put me on toAction Fraud (reference number XXXXXXX). Action Fraud is investigating this. Please can you remove any adverse markersfrom my credit file?

 

 

 

Unless you can supply me with a signed copy of the creditagreement then I deem this matter closed.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

1. There is no obligation to supply the agreement with a SAR, the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) allows for this.

 

 

Some creditors may send an agreement most do not.

 

 

What you have received appears to be a badly put together " reconstituted" agreement.

 

 

Such a "true" copy must contain:

 

 

1. Your name and address as at the inception of the agreement.

2. The creditors name and address at inception.

3. The Terms & Conditions at inception.

4. The Ts & Cs at closure of the account.

5. Any amendments to the Ts & Cs during the "life" of the agreement.

6. Any documents mentioned in the Ts & Cs e.g. a booklet containing further Ts & Cs.

+ A current statement of the account

The recon fails if any part is missing.

A signature is not required on a recon.

 

Now you need to make a formal complaint regarding the noncompliance of the recon agreement address is to Ms Sara de Tute,

Director of Legal & Compliance

The Lowell Group

Enterprise House

1 Apex View

Leeds

LS11 9BH

 

 

Use recorded signed for post.

[lynd]

Thanks for your reply.

 

Lowells supplied the information you asked for (well in respect of the recon credit agreement - they didn't enclose all the other stuff).

 

Question is - without a signature - how can I prove that someone else signed the credit agreement - i.e. fraud.

 

Surely a Data Access Subject Request (I work for a Uni and I know what we have to supply) should include the signed agreement - which Lowells say Next have (but Next say they don't).

 

Apologies - I seem to be going round in circles here..

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The ICO has said that " although it might expect an agreement to be supplied with a SAR there is no actual obligation to do so, sections 77/78 CCA 1974 provides for this.

 

 

A SAR to a debt purchaser or a debt collection agency will not get you all the data on the account as when a debt is sold it is part of an enormous portfolio of debt, and is sold with the absolute minimum of information.

 

 

A SAR should always be sent to the creditor.

 

 

There is also the point that there may not be a "signed" agreement as catalogue accounts are mostly opened on line and the signature is a tick in a box and the account is confirmed/opened by the acceptance/delivery of the 1st order.

 

 

I would be asking Next for proof of delivery of orders and copies of signatures for them, which you may get with a SAR.

[lynd]

Thanks again.

 

The letter I drafted is in response to the SAR that I received from Next - Next being the creditor. I asked them for ALL information held - so surely they should've sent me everything they've got. Hence I'm presuming they have given me so.

 

If you see the posts above - Lodger (it's her 'alleged' debt not mine though I'm helping as far as I can), she's been to the Police who passed on on to Action Fraud (she has a reference number) - What I really wanted is any advice/criticism etc on the letter I'm sending to Next after the receipt of the data supplied on the SAR request (which was that credit agreement standing proforma).

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

You should really tackle this from the noncompliant reconstituted agreement angle which is why posted the requirements in post 62.

 

 

A simple straight forward complaint the Data Controller/Compliance department of Next pointing out why the recon does not satisfy the requirements of CCA 1974.

 

 

I would as said be asking for proofs of delivery of orders and signatures given for them.

[lynd]

Ahh. Ok... my misunderstanding (I thought you were talking about Lowells)... I'll draft another letter and post it again for comments.

 

Thanks for your help.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Ahh. Ok... my misunderstanding (I thought you were talking about Lowells)... I'll draft another letter and post it again for comments.

 

Thanks for your help.

The provision of a "copy agreement" Recon is only to satisfy the requirements of a request made under CCA '74.

[lynd]

Dear All

 

I just thought you'd like an update. After my last post we entered into another round of correspondence with Lowells (and to a lesser extent Next) - our last letter to Lowells, which was written by a very good friend of mine (a Barrister) contained something we hadn't mentioned before - the fact that Lowells bought a debt that was in dispute (the original correspondence with CapQuest). A few months on and we have had a letter from Lowells. They have wiped the debt and will not be returning it to Next and will be taking any marker of daughter's credit rating (though that can taken 50 days). Without the help from all you lovely people we wouldn't have been successful and I thank you immensely (and so does daughter).

 

With all good wishes and keep up the good fight.

[Bazooka Boo]

Excellent news!

Keep any documents stating this very safe, as you know DCA's, especially the bottom feeders tend to say one thing and do another.

 

Lets hope this is the end of it well done!

[lynd]

we will for sure.........