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Barclays Masterloan & Fredricksons


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5 years ago i defaulted on a Barclayloan. The account was closed and sent to collections (in-house). Interest frozen and a repayment arrangement agreed via CCCS.

 

The bank never regsitered a default with the CRAs but I was allegedly sent a default notice at the time.

 

5 years on the bank have just started to enter data with the CRAs for the first time. No Defaulted account recorded but an arrangement marker instead, with the lethal "U" payment markers.

 

To me this seems grossly unfair as if the account had been registered with a Default when it was defaulted I would only have 1 year to go before it was removed from my credit files.

 

The bank seem hellbent on recording adverse data indefinitely for this account ie for as long as it remains unsettled and then for 6 years after that.

 

anyone any ideas about what I should do to get this resolved?

 

The bank initially agreed to record a back-dated Default on my reequest but guess what? they reneged on this promise (they probably figured out why I had requested it).

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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You should make a complaint to the ICO because Barclays are in breach of their guidelines. It is expected that a default should be registered within a reasonable time-line within six months of an a/c becoming delinquent and certainly within a year.

ICO Filing Defaults - version_v3 doc.pdf

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Hi. The ICO guide is very informative, for which, thanks.

 

The attachment doesn't appear on first reading to support my case.

 

I was sent a DN and the account went to Barclays' in-house collections. But the ICO guidelines here don't say that the lender is under an obligation to record a Default with the CRAs, even if an account has been closed and transferred to debt collectors. I was paying 24% of the original premium when it went to the CCCS DMP, so whether this counts as a token payment I don't know.

 

This situation seems like a loophole that creditors can exploit to 'have their cake and eat it'. Am I wrong in this summation? They send a DN; send the account to a DCA; wait 5 years before plonking on an AP special indicator with the CRAs. they therefore achieve permanant adverse data.

 

I was wondering if anyone else has successfully requested a creditor actually enter a Default that was not recorded at the time?

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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Why don't you contact the ICO & get their opinion? https://www.ico.gov.uk/Global/contact_us.aspx

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That link is v. useful.I didn't know they had a helpline for generic questions like this. cheers.

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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I phoned the ICO call centre using the number in the above link. Whilst I had to hang on for 30 minutes to speak to someone, I have to say that when I did I found them very helpful and courteous.

 

The upshot is that they deal with matters on a case by case basis.

 

They wouldn't give anything away on specifics but did take an interest in the fact that I had written to the bank complaining. they asked me to send evidence of postage ie a recorded delivery receipt. So always send complaints recorded and keep the proof of postage. The ICO said this is ebcause lenders say they don't receive post, effectively as a ploy to slow things up.

 

It might be that the ICO can only look at this next year when the 6 years since the original (unrecorded) default took place. The bod I spoke to kept going on about this and was unable to refer me to any ruling or regulation concerning this lack of ability to review it now. The ICO said that their policy team are looking into writing some guidance on this issue.

 

So I have put in my ICO complaint and will see what comes of it.

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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The ICO said this is ebcause lenders say they don't receive post
The ICO have finally realised that certain firms speak with forked tongue.
It might be that the ICO can only look at this next year when the 6 years since the original (unrecorded) default took place. The bod I spoke to kept going on about this and was unable to refer me to any ruling or regulation concerning this lack of ability to review it now.
There is a backlog of complaints, they are only just starting to deal with one I submitted last July. They gave the company 28 days to respond... which was a couple of weeks ago now.

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Yes, my other ICO matter has been with them 6 months already and I have only just received the letter saying it is being referred to an adjudicator.

 

My o/h has received a response to her ICO complaint against HSBC 12 months after it was made. It was settled 6 months ago and the ICO therefore had nothing to adjudicate. They said they agreed with her and would have ordered the bank to remove her default. Cheers ICO, thats very good of you.

 

I have had 3 recent - all successful - FOS complaints involving data protection issues (default markers) and the FOS have ordered the banks to remove these entries on each occasion. Most recently the FOS told Barclaycard to shift 7 late payment markers. Also an HSBC default for an overdraft. So might be worthwhile you considering complaining to the FOS as well if appropriate.

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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This may be helpful:

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/detailed_specialist_guides/default_tgn_version_v3%20%20doc.pdf

 

Accounts should not be routinely filed as being in default where full payments or those due under a rescheduled agreement are fewer than three consecutive months in arrears.

Accounts should normally be filed as being in default where those payments due have not been received for six months.

 

Or this from CPUTR 2008

 

 

Misleading actions

 

5.—(1) A commercial practice is a misleading action if it satisfies the conditions in either paragraph (2) or paragraph (3).

 

(2) A commercial practice satisfies the conditions of this paragraph—

 

(a)if it contains false information and is therefore untruthful in relation to any of the matters in paragraph (4) or if it or its overall presentation in any way deceives or is likely to deceive the average consumer in relation to any of the matters in that paragraph, even if the information is factually correct; and

 

(b)it causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.

 

 

8.—(1) A trader is guilty of an offence if—

 

(a)he knowingly or recklessly engages in a commercial practice which contravenes the requirements of professional diligence under regulation 3(3)(a); and

 

(b)the practice materially distorts or is likely to materially distort the economic behaviour of the average consumer with regard to the product under regulation 3(3)(b).

 

 

 

I would certainly read 2a as, while being truthful, as being presented to deceive.

 

I don't know whether this is any help. I suspect there is stuff in CPUTR which I haven't remembered yet, the best person to pm is Priority One - she seems to be the expert. The good thing with this is if they are in breach of it they are committing criminal offences as I understand it so could lose their license to trade.

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Hey Tingy, thanks for joining the thread. the CPTUR info is REALLY helpful - thanks. I am about to put pen to paper again to the ICO and FOS and will incorporate this into my summary.

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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  • 6 months later...

Hi, don't know if anyone is still looking in on this thread. Just wanted to ask, as I am in a similar situation, although I now have a default on my credit file seven years after the account actually defaulted. In the interim, I have also been on an AP. Isn't the point of all this, though, that we shouldn't be in a worse position that we would have been if we'd refused to pay anything and just allowed the creditor to place a default at the outset. Further, if the AP is ongoing, then surely you are going to be building up arrears (if you are just making token payments) and a default should be registered on the credit file within the first six months, because by that point, you haven't managed to recommence your contractual repayments and clearly aren't going to. Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense because you are actually being penalised for trying to do the right thing and that is exactly what the ICO says shouldn't happen.

 

Be interested in any comments.

 

Magda

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Magda,

Please clarify: did the account you now have an AP with actually get defaulted?

If so, do you have proof of this?

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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Magda,

Please clarify: did the account you now have an AP with actually get defaulted?

If so, do you have proof of this?

 

Hi Debt Star, the account was defaulted, but I don't have any proof, this was with Lloyds TSB around 2003/2004ish. I know that around that time they did routinely issue DNs on defaulted accounts, which as I say, I'm pretty sure they did in my case. I then entered into an arrangement where I was paying token payments each month (still am). Lloyds, though, suddenly deciced to 'clear' the arrears on my account (in 2009) and to again ask for the contractual payment. They didn't formally write to me, just started showing on my statements that I had missed a payment of say, £180, then another and so on. Their reasoning behind this, was that they were giving me a fresh start and they have done exactly the same thing to other people as well in the same situation, I have discovered. This meant that they started reporting on the credit file that I was one payment in arrears and so on, and placed a default in 2010, around seven years after the event actually happened. They issued a DN (the second one, I believe) in 2009 just before doing all of this.

 

I have a thread on this and I know, from what others have said, Shadow, for example, that if you enter into a payment arrangement and they intend to default you at some point, then they should do so earlier rather than later, i.e., within six months or so, not leave it until years down the line. Also, just from what I understand, if you do enter into a payment arrangement and you are making reduced payments, then you are obviously building up arrears pretty quickly and again, should be defaulted at that point, regardless of whether you are agreeing reduced amounts to try to clear the debt. Be interested in yours and any other opinions on this, Lnk to my thread, as the topic is similar: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?306705-Inaccurate-info-on-credit-file&highlight=magda

 

Magda

 

Hi,

 

Sorry, i just wondered if anyone had had any success asking the credit companies to re-date any defaults they applied year after agreeing to an arrangment to pay?

 

I'm trying to get my two remaining defaults (incl Lloyds) removed, but no specific experience of the scenario you mention, sure others will though. It's a nightmare trying to get this kind of thing sorted out and I do know that the credit ref agencies won't remove anything or re-date anything unless the creditor tells them to.

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Hi Debt Star and all

 

Interesting stuff here

 

Experian's approach is to record an AP indefinitely in the preamble infornation, and an old AP staus on file beyond the 6 years. Whereas Equifax will allow the AP red-spots to drop off eventually.

 

With Equifax I am seeing my AP markers drop off 1 by 1 which is good. I am confused with Experian I understood that they would leave your last payment status on file then after 6 years from being settled/closed would automatically be removed. Only what I thought if not then it's a disgrace.

 

the account was defaulted, but I don't have any proof, this was with Lloyds TSB around 2003/2004ish.

 

Old CRA files or default notice anything will do. If you defaulted and then subsequently cleared the debt the default remains on file for 6 years then should be automatically removed. The company cannot simply change from Default to AP at will, this is plain wrong.

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Advice & opinions of mahharg are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

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hi peeps.

 

I had a loan that defaulted but was not filed as a Default with the CRAs. That was back in 2006.

 

In 2010 the bank decided it would file an AP marker for the loan (which I had been paying on AP since 2006 following he Default). Bank refused to file the Default. Said the AP would stay.

 

I did a SAR, got proof from the data of the date the default notice was sent to me in 2006 and made a complaint to the bank. They wriggled around but were eventually forced to file the 2006 Default with the CRAs.

 

Equifax initilly didn't put the date of the Default on but were later forced to.

 

Which of course means that the loan account will drop off my credit files next year DESPITE my being in an arrangement to pay with the bank.

 

So, in short, do your damndest to get the default date and evidence of it somehow and demand the bank file it inbstead of the AP.

 

Mahharg, if what you say about Experian is true then something needs to be done about it. A complaint to the FOS as this is grossly unfair.

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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Yes I agree that about a complaint. All in all the whole AP situation puts people in a worse situation than anybody who defaults. An AP whichever way you look at it is a negative mark telling creditors that you can't keep up with contractual payments, just like a default yet the default drops of your Credit file sooner.

 

Default 6 years from default date.

AP marker 6 years from time settled/cleared.

 

There is a flaw to this and should not be allowed.

 

I haven't checked my Experian file for a while so can't tell you what my report states.

Knowledge is Power

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Have I been of any help to you? if so please click my scales to the left to enhance my reputation. Thank you. If not PM me.

 

Nationwide - won claim 

Advice & opinions of mahharg are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

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The fact is an arrangement to

pay a reduced amount from

that required by the original

agreement is a default on that

agrrement.

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The fact is an arrangement to

pay a reduced amount from

that required by the original

agreement is a default on that

agreement

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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I THINK I understand that, but they mark that as an AP and not as a Default. The general consensus on this thread is that it is better to have a Default filed than an AP.

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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That's exactly it Debt Star.

 

1) If someone didn't pay a thing they get a default on their file 6 years later it drops off (whether it is paid off or not). Even if a reduced payment plan is subsequently agreed.

 

2) If someone couldn't pay the normal repayments and agreed a reduced payment plan as soon as they realize that they can't pay then the file is marked as AP the entries remain on file for 6 years AFTER being paid off.

 

You would think that the person doing option 2 is doing the responsible and fair thing by approaching the company as soon as they experience problems in paying but not so.

 

If it took that person 5 years to pay it off then the AP markers remain on the Credit file for 11 years (5 years to settle plus 6 years after).

 

Yet if the person who doesn't pay a thing and receives a default, then maybe (or even maybe not) agrees to pay at a reduced rate and takes the same 5 years to pay it off. That default will drop off after 6 years from the default date not after the settlement date a whole 5 years less than above.

 

I just feel that this is unfair and unjust and something needs to change and IMHO an AP is just as bad as a default especially these days with nobody offering credit for the slightest bad mark. As mentioned above :

 

The fact is an arrangement to

pay a reduced amount from

that required by the original

agreement is a default on that

agreement

 

So the option is pay nothing then default and have a clean file in 6 years, or own up agree a repayment and have a clean file in (number of years taken to settle) PLUS 6 years. Just plain wrong hey?

Knowledge is Power

Go get em!

Have I been of any help to you? if so please click my scales to the left to enhance my reputation. Thank you. If not PM me.

 

Nationwide - won claim 

Advice & opinions of mahharg are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I took out a loan with Barclays with single premium PPI. That loan was settled early and the balance, inclusive of a tranch of the PPI sold with the first loan, was transferred to a new loan. Defaulted a few years back and have been on an AP with Barclays since.

 

I have made a PPI claim via the FOS and the quantum of PPI rebate is still being negotiated with the OC. I have an adjudication in my favour but the amount of PPI carried over to the new loan is debated.

 

The new loan has been sold to a company specialising in bad debt. This took place during the dispute being handled by the FOS. This company have instructed Freds to collect the debt.

 

The new owner of the debt have said that because the dispute with Barclays relates to PPI, "a separate product from the loan account" that they do not accept that they have breached the OFT guidelines in instructing a DCA to collect.

 

My point is that because the sum owed under the loan is in dispute (because of the carry over of the single PPI into the new loan) that it is not a separate issue and that the OFT guidance on collecting on a prior disputed debt stands.

 

Any thoughts and or experience to share with me on this one?

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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true i agree

 

but i think you can argue till the cows come home

wont make any diff.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 1 month later...

Guys

Ive bumped this because Tingy mentions a few things that would help me but appears they are no longer posting in the forum [under that name at least] :>

 

** My other question is also Barclays related and similar to this where the CRA Experian are not fulfilling their obligations.

 

 

Read the examples I gave you the other day

There are so many posts they added I cant find this - does anyone know of any?

 

and

 

I know what your saying, and keeping on receiving that sort of response is disheartening.

 

However, to me this speaks volumes (from your last post):

 

The lender is equally obligated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998 to ensure that the information they provide is accurate and up to date.

 

Absolutely right! The lender is EQUALLY OBLIGATED ............

 

Equally obligated with whom? With the Data Controller from the CRF. That Data Controller cannot just pass total responsibility to the other Data Controller in my mind, no more than with Council Tax and bailiffslink3.gif we keep reading of councils saying the bailiffslink3.gif are nothing to do with them, and they cannot take the debt back but they are lying.

 

The liability is shared in the same way, they are vicariously liable for the information. The Data Controller at the CRF needs asking what he personally has done to verify this data. Of course the other one is going to say yes it's accurate, so what are they doing, by themself, to ensure accuracy of the data. They could, for example, ask you to send them copies of documents that make you think the information is incorrect.

 

Just my view, and you know what I'm like with the DPA, but I wouldn't just accept it. I'd go back to them and challenge them quoting parts of the DPA and asking them to back up their words with proof.

 

Im not sure how to approach this - can anyone help?

 

Thanks

 

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