Please help, Wits end over 9 months of false fraud allegations by council

[justsoharrassed]

Hi,

I hope I am posting in the right place here as I am a total newbee. I need some legal help on where we stand. and what we should now do for the best. I'll try to keep it short but it has been going on for 9 months.

 

I have a disabled friend who lives in a housing association flat with his school age daughter. My friend lives on disability benefits after several bad back operations. They claim housing and council tax benefits.

 

In Dec and Jan his mother was ill. Because he is disabled and his mother lives some 200 miles away, or so. He went to visit her 2-3 times during this period for a couple of weeksish at a time. He arranged for a friend of his to house sit his 16 year old daughter while he was away.

 

When he came home toward the end of january he had a letter saying his housing and CT benefits had been suspended from 18th Jan and he needed to contact them. He did, and was told an unannounced visit had been made while he was away and a young female who was not his daughter had been letting herself into his flat and said she lived there. My Friend assumed his daughter had just had a friend staying over while he was away.

 

Later it turned out the person was in fact the girlfriend of the person he had asked to housesit. So my friend let them know. They said they didn't believe him, that they wouldn't reinstate his benefit, that in order to have his benefit reinstated he needed to fill in a new application detailing his change of circumstances in the any change of circumstances area (there was no change of circumstances, his mother was ill, but nothing about His circumstances had changed ), be present at another unannounced visit and supply his (sick) mothers address (so they could contact her), his mothers doctors address (which he didn't have), His housesitting friends address (after this, they were not on the best of terms by this time), the housesitters girlfriends address (obviously he doesn't know that) and the address of his ex-wife (to prove his daughter lives with him).

 

My friend refused to supply any addresses for various reasons. When told they would not be given the addresses the council representative became agressive abusive and threatening. He did fill in a new application (the same as his previous one) and agreed to another visit. Tellling them of a planned visit to his mother around the end of March and a holiday in May.

 

To cut a long story short. They paid a visit on the 29th March and unsuprisingly my friend was at his mothers. However his daugter was in. He contacted them on his return and they said they'd visit again sometime within the next 2 weeks. My friend phoned every day to make sure he was not forgotten untill he recieved an automated message saying the offices were now shut for easter.

 

Around June my friend asked for my help as he was getting very stressed by the whole thing. I asked where the paperwork was so I could look at it but the only paperwork he had received was the letter in January telling him his benefit had been suspended and a letter in May saying his benefit had been suspended and backdated to 3rd January, as there had been no contact after a visit. Both saying he needed to contact them. I asked him what visit did they mean on the one in May and he said he had no idea.

 

I arranged to see someone from the council, who again said someone would be out within the next 2 weeks. My friend was worried about this after the aggressive way he had been dealt with, I said I would pop round regularly and he could phone me. The visiting team came and I sat as witness they asked if they could take my name and address incase they needed to contact me in the future. 2 weeks later I asked my friend if it was all sorted and he said he still hadn't heard anything. I arranged for us to go back into the council offices and speak to the person who had arranged the visit. The council then ran credit checks on me without any authorisation from me.

 

We then went to the appointment, the person who had been abusive to my friend decided to also attend the meeting, She took over the meeting, told us she was the head of the fraud investigation and that my friend was officially under investigation, then proceeded to try to repeatedly verbally bully my friend untill in the end I asked her to stop doing it. At the end she said she wasn't satisfied he lived at his address and his claim was going to be cancelled from January 3rd but that his new claim would be paid from july 4th. That he would receive the decision in writing along with all documents to do with the investigation, including telephone calls, visits etc. That it would also include details on how he could appeal the decision.

 

I took notes during this meeting as it was the only way we could have anything in writing telling us what they were alleging. Later I went through their list of events and found several of them that simply were not true. False allegations of visits they had made etc.

 

3 weeks later still nothing from them at all. This time I wrote to the Ms in charge. telling her in no uncertain terms that I was not happy at all about the way this had been conducted or her conduct throughout this investigation. That the matter had now been going on for too long, and that they had not even given my friend the opportunity to defend himself, as they had not written to him telling him what he was accused of. I gave her 7 days to bring the matter to an end one way or another or I would take further action.

 

I then received a letter from her supervisor saying he was looking into my letter. I have since received a letter from the supervisor closing ranks and twisting the truth, with sayings like 'at the interview on' when there was no interview, it was a meeting that WE had called to try to get some/any information. Saying he has seen no evidence of wrongdoing and listing some of the actions taken by his staff. This list of actions is just not accurate at all, at one point they are saying they visited my friend and that it was only me present at his home, this just simply never happened.

 

My friend has now been served with notices from the housing association. So i advised him to see Citizens A,B. Who told him to go to the local council contact point where he lives. We went there and they said he had to speak to the people we had already dealt with and made us an appointment for this Friday.

 

I am worried about us attending this meeting, as I now understand how my friend feels and also feel that everything that is said is twisted and that they can claim whatever they feel like claiming without needing any proof what so ever. I am sure this can't be right, but I can't see any information on what my friends rights in this are. So if I haven't sent you to sleep, all help would be soooo gratefully appreciated. Hopefully we can get it sorted and my friend can come off of the anti-depressants and start sleeping again.

Edited September 22, 2011 by justsoharrassed
To make it easier to read.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Please edit your post and put in some paragraphs - it's almost impossible to read a huge chunk of text, and you are far more likely to get helpful answers if CAGgers can read your post!

[Madge67]

So they are saying that his benefots have been canx because they believe he wasnt in the property from January to July. The reason they have reached that decision is that he wasnt at the residency check and he was unable to verify the normal addresses of the people that were at the property. I would think that as no IUC was conducted, there would not have been enough evidence to prosecute you for what they believe to be the case.

 

Your friend has a right of appeal against the decision to canx his claim and he can either ask for the council to reconsider the decision where they will just look at the decision again in house or he can request an appeal. The council will still look at the case again, but if they still feel their decision is right, they then have to send it straight to the appeal tribunal. They will send a full submission to you and the tribunal office and you will be invited to attend and put forward your case. In the appeal he must raise every point where he feels they have misrepresented the facts so they should address these issues. What you have to remember is that he will be will be appealing against a decision in a matter of law, the conduct of the staff need not be included in the appeal, this should be done seperately on a formal complaints form and sent to the councils complaints department, especially if you feel that bullying tactics were used. Im not sayting you cant include the conduct of the staff, just that the tribunal wont be focussing on that, it will be more about why they made the decision to cancel the claim and why he is saying they shouldnt have.

 

I really think that if your friend could provide some of the addresses that were originally requested and get some more evidence that these people had alternative addresses. He must have known where his friend lived at the time so he could give that address. By not providing anything then Im afraid I dont believe the decision will be changed at least without the bother of going to tribunal so the more he can come up with (inc details of his mums address), the more likely it is that the decision will be changed in house and a lot quicker. Tribunals can take about 9 months to be heard at the moment- shocking but true!! Can he also give a full statement of the date from and to when he visited his mum. Oooh maybe for the periods he was at his own property, he used his debit card locally, maybe he could provide his bank statements to show withdrawals locally or it being used at a local shop. Honestly the more he gives them, the more the council will know that their decision will be set aside at Tribunal.

 

Unfortunately you have to jump through hoops sometimes when benefits offices have a suspicion about something, but remember it falls to them to prove that the suspicions are correct. The fact that you friend did not provide any info they requested added weight to their decision so now is the time to get that changed.

 

Good luck with this, he's lucky to have you to help him with this. Please let us know how he gets on with this.

 

Hope fully he isnt out of time for appeal - its one month from the date of the decision to cancel the claim. However, he can ask for an appeal to be considered up to 13 months after the decison if he has good cause for not appealing sooner.

 

Regards

[Madge67]

Sorry I referred the the case as your own in a lot of my text - apologies for this. I know it was your friends case so when i said 'they will send a submission to you, I meant to your friend.

 

oooops

[Echodale]

Did the letter from the supervisor of the aggressive anti-fraud officer refer to your query as a complaint. If it did then it should have a final paragraph that tells you how to escalate the complaint if you are not satisfied.

 

Council's are obliged to have a published complaints procedure, this is likely to be published on their website or available as a leaflet from council offices. Make sure any letters clearly say this is a complaint it should then be referred to an investigation officer who will respond within however many days the published scheme says. Their response will indicate how to take it to stage two and the stage two officer will then advise you how to escalate to the Local Government Ombudsman if not satisfied. It is in the Council's interest to resolve a complaint as it is one of their key performance indicators (KPI's) and complaints that are upheld by the ombudsman are bad news for them.

 

A useful ally is the ward councillor of your friend, a lot can be achieved very quickly with their help, the council website should have the councillors contact details published there.

[justsoharrassed]

Hi Madge 67

 

They have said they have cancelled his claim because someone else was in when they visited in Jan. That only his Daughter was in when they visited in March, even though she was legally supposed to be there and on his claim forms. That I was the only person in when they visited in June, I certainly wasn't there, and we know they definitely did not visit on that date. That my friend was at home when they visited in July.

 

They have now added that they visited in Dec, I don't know about this, and my friend can't remember what he was doing that day. Also that they visited another day in March and spoke to his daughter, which again never happened. and that they visited in April, which again we can proove they didn't. Anyway because of all this they say they do not believe he lives in his home.

 

They will not put all this in writting however. They have told us this, but my friend cannot appeal because they haven't put any of it in writting. He has only received the letter in Jan and the one in May, which both say his benefit is suspended pending investigation. Then the letter from the supervisor saying he can find no evidence of wrong doing by his staff and he supports their decisions. He does not say what the decisions actually are, its as though they are purposely avoiding putting anything in writting. Although he has detailed the dates they claim to have visited. So that is some help. But without having anything in writting telling you, and detailing what the problems actually are and why, You can't appeal because you don't have the detail to correct their false impressions.

 

You make the point of my friend not giving them any information, Sorry, I think I didn't make it clear. When my friend got back in Jan the claim was that he didn't live there and he needed to prove he did. He told them the only 2 periods he knew he would be away for, over the next 6 months. He told them they were welcome to visit at any other time, to see him at home. He put himself under house arrest for the next 6-7 weeks. They didn't visit. They did visit once they knew he would be away. Even though he had already told them.

He did, when he got back again phone them every day for the next 2 weeks without fail untill they closed for Easter. They didn't visit.

In July he again put himself under house arrest, phoning them to keep them informed even if he had to nip out to the doctors.

 

I do not see, and neither does my friend, how giving out personal details of other people will prove where my friend lives, one way or another. All it does is enable the council workers to run unauthorised credit searches, on people who have nothing what so ever to do with my friends claim for assisted housing. I helped my friend with 2 meetings and they lied in order to get my name and address, and then used that information to run searches on me. Then lied about having run any searches. Then made up claims about me being at his home in order to try to justify having done it. But anyway I have now forwarded that to the information commisioners office. Also he certainly does not want to supply his mothers address as she is still ill and he doesn't want any stress or agrivation of any kind passed onto her, as he has already explained to the council.

 

To be honest we would happily agree for him to jump through hoops to bring this matter to a close. If either of us felt the counil could be trusted. However they have worked in such an underhanded way and told so many lies, that now we both feel uneasy about giving them any information. And feel they would take any information then twist it or use it in some way to make up more lies. The same as they have been to date.

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand, and agree that they have to be thorough. But they claim my friend doesn't live at his home. My friend has given them ample opportunity to see he lives in his home, 9 months worth of opportunity infact and they have refused to turn up, apart from when they knew he wouldn't be there, and then lied about it afterward.

 

They have not said they think my friend lives somewhere else, or that someone else lives at his home. But keep insisting very, very strongly, on being given the addresses of my friends, family and friends. So I think I can see their next line of attack. Neither of us want to go down that route for another 9 months of stress and hassle.

 

Basically we do not want to do anything that will make the situation worse.

[Echodale]

Trust me, complaining will not worsen your situation, my knowledge comes from working for a council.

[justsoharrassed]

Hi Echodale

No the letter from the supervisor did not refer to my queries as a complaint.

But thank you for the information on the complaints procedure. Never having had to deal with anything like this before neither of us had the faintest idea where to start, and it is very hard to find the right information in plain english.

Thank you also for the information on the ward councillor, I would never have thought of that.