Hi Echodale No the letter from the supervisor did not refer to my queries as a complaint. But thank you for the information on the complaints procedure. Never having had to deal with anything like this before neither of us had the faintest idea where to start, and it is very hard to find the right information in plain english. Thank you also for the information on the ward councillor, I would never have thought of that.

Hi Madge 67 They have said they have cancelled his claim because someone else was in when they visited in Jan. That only his Daughter was in when they visited in March, even though she was legally supposed to be there and on his claim forms. That I was the only person in when they visited in June, I certainly wasn't there, and we know they definitely did not visit on that date. That my friend was at home when they visited in July. They have now added that they visited in Dec, I don't know about this, and my friend can't remember what he was doing that day. Also that they visited another day in March and spoke to his daughter, which again never happened. and that they visited in April, which again we can proove they didn't. Anyway because of all this they say they do not believe he lives in his home. They will not put all this in writting however. They have told us this, but my friend cannot appeal because they haven't put any of it in writting. He has only received the letter in Jan and the one in May, which both say his benefit is suspended pending investigation. Then the letter from the supervisor saying he can find no evidence of wrong doing by his staff and he supports their decisions. He does not say what the decisions actually are, its as though they are purposely avoiding putting anything in writting. Although he has detailed the dates they claim to have visited. So that is some help. But without having anything in writting telling you, and detailing what the problems actually are and why, You can't appeal because you don't have the detail to correct their false impressions. You make the point of my friend not giving them any information, Sorry, I think I didn't make it clear. When my friend got back in Jan the claim was that he didn't live there and he needed to prove he did. He told them the only 2 periods he knew he would be away for, over the next 6 months. He told them they were welcome to visit at any other time, to see him at home. He put himself under house arrest for the next 6-7 weeks. They didn't visit. They did visit once they knew he would be away. Even though he had already told them. He did, when he got back again phone them every day for the next 2 weeks without fail untill they closed for Easter. They didn't visit. In July he again put himself under house arrest, phoning them to keep them informed even if he had to nip out to the doctors. I do not see, and neither does my friend, how giving out personal details of other people will prove where my friend lives, one way or another. All it does is enable the council workers to run unauthorised credit searches, on people who have nothing what so ever to do with my friends claim for assisted housing. I helped my friend with 2 meetings and they lied in order to get my name and address, and then used that information to run searches on me. Then lied about having run any searches. Then made up claims about me being at his home in order to try to justify having done it. But anyway I have now forwarded that to the information commisioners office. Also he certainly does not want to supply his mothers address as she is still ill and he doesn't want any stress or agrivation of any kind passed onto her, as he has already explained to the council. To be honest we would happily agree for him to jump through hoops to bring this matter to a close. If either of us felt the counil could be trusted. However they have worked in such an underhanded way and told so many lies, that now we both feel uneasy about giving them any information. And feel they would take any information then twist it or use it in some way to make up more lies. The same as they have been to date. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand, and agree that they have to be thorough. But they claim my friend doesn't live at his home. My friend has given them ample opportunity to see he lives in his home, 9 months worth of opportunity infact and they have refused to turn up, apart from when they knew he wouldn't be there, and then lied about it afterward. They have not said they think my friend lives somewhere else, or that someone else lives at his home. But keep insisting very, very strongly, on being given the addresses of my friends, family and friends. So I think I can see their next line of attack. Neither of us want to go down that route for another 9 months of stress and hassle. Basically we do not want to do anything that will make the situation worse.

Hi Martin, Hi honeybee. Thanks for the feedback, I will try to break it up a bit.

Hi, I hope I am posting in the right place here as I am a total newbee. I need some legal help on where we stand. and what we should now do for the best. I'll try to keep it short but it has been going on for 9 months. I have a disabled friend who lives in a housing association flat with his school age daughter. My friend lives on disability benefits after several bad back operations. They claim housing and council tax benefits. In Dec and Jan his mother was ill. Because he is disabled and his mother lives 200 miles away or so he went to visit her 2-3 times during this period for a couple of weeksish at a time. He arranged for a friend of his to house sit his 16 year old daughter while he was away. When he came home toward the end of january he had a letter saying his housing and CT benefits had been suspended from 18th Jan and he needed to contact them. He did, and was told an unannounced visit had been made while he was away. That a young female who was not his daughter had at the time of the visit, been letting herself into his flat and had said she lived there. My Friend assumed his daughter had just had a friend staying over while he was away. Later it turned out the person was in fact the girlfriend of the person he had asked to housesit. So my friend let the council know. The woman from the council said she didn't believe him, that they wouldn't reinstate his benefit, that in order to have his benefit reinstated he needed to: Fill in a new application detailing his change of circumstances in the any change of circumstances area (there was no change of circumstances, his mother was ill, but nothing about His circumstances had changed ), He needed to be present at another unannounced visit. He had to supply his (sick) mothers address (so they could contact her), his mothers doctors address (which he didn't have), His housesitting friends address (after all this, they were not exactly on the best of terms any more), the housesitters girlfriends address (obviously he doesn't know that) and the address of his ex-wife (to prove his daughter lives with him). My friend refused to supply any addresses. When told they would not be given the addresses the council representative became agressive abusive and threatening. My friend did fill in a new application (exactly the same as his previous one) and agreed to another visit. Tellling them of a planned visit to his mother around the end of March and a holiday in May. To cut a long story short. He put himself under virtual house arrest for the next 6-7 weeks and nothing. They paid a visit on the 29th March and un-suprisingly my friend was at his mothers. However his daugter was in and the visiting team left a card with her. He contacted them on his return and they said they'd visit again sometime within the next 2 weeks. My friend phoned every day to make sure he was not forgotten untill he recieved an automated message saying the offices were now shut for easter....... etc etc etc. Around June my friend asked for my help as he was getting no-where and very stressed by the whole thing. I asked where the paperwork was so I could look at it but the only paperwork he had received was the letter in January telling him his benefit had been suspended and a letter in May saying his benefit had been suspended and backdated to 3rd January, as there had been no contact after a visit. Both saying he needed to contact them. I asked him what visit they were refering to on the letter from May and he said he had no idea. I probably should add, my friend does get confused with dates and the order things happen in quite easily. Which his doctor says is a side effect of his morphine medication. I arranged for us to both go in and see someone from the council, who again said someone would be out within the next 2 weeks. My friend was worried about this after the aggressive way he had been dealt with, and getting confused. I said I would pop round regularly and he could phone me. The visiting team came on the last day of the 2 weeks. About half an hour after I'd arrived to talk over what to try next, and I sat as witness/memory. They wrote out a statement and asked him to sign it, I did not see what it said and he can't really remember. They asked if they could take my name and address incase they needed to contact me in the future. I could see no reason why not, so agreed. 2 weeks later I asked my friend if it was all sorted and he said he still hadn't heard anything. I arranged for us to go back into the council offices and speak to the person who had arranged the visit. The council then ran credit checks on me without my authorisation, These flagged up on my credit report and were e-mailed to me by a well known credit check service. The following day we went to the appointment, the person who had been abusive to my friend decided to also attend the meeting. She took over the meeting. Told us she was the head of the fraud investigation and that my friend was officially under investigation. She then proceeded to try to repeatedly verbally bully my friend, untill in the end I asked her to stop doing it, as I could see him getting distressed and confused. At the end she said she wasn't satisfied he lived at his address and his claim was going to be cancelled from January 3rd but that his new claim would be paid from July 4th. She stated that he would receive the decision in writing along with all documents to do with the investigation, including telephone calls, visits etc. That it would also include details on how he could appeal the decision. I took notes during this meeting as it was the only way we could have anything in writing telling us what they were alleging. I asked them why they were running checks on me and was told they were not. I told them they were, and I wanted to know what right they thought they had to do that. She said she would look into it and write to me. Later I went through their list of events and found several of them that simply were not true. False allegations of visits they had made etc. 3 weeks later still nothing from them at all. This time I wrote to the Ms in charge. telling her in no uncertain terms that I was not happy at all about the way this had been conducted or her conduct throughout this investigation. That the matter had now been going on for too long, and that they had not given my friend the opportunity to defend himself or reply to any accusations, as they had not written to him telling him what he was accused of. I gave her 7 days to bring the matter to an end one way or another, or I would take further actions. I then received a letter from her supervisor saying he was looking into my letter, but it would take him a while. I also received a letter from her, saying they were quite within their rights to run credit checks on me as 'they were done as part of an ongoing investigation' and as such are exempt from the normal rules governing the data protection act ? ? ? So if you know someone who is under investigation, for anything, they can run searches on you, without your agreement, consent or even knowledge ? ? Anyway, I digress. I have since received a letter from the supervisor closing ranks and twisting the truth, sayings things like 'at the interview on'. When there was, and has been no interview/s. There was a meeting that WE had called to try to get some/any information. Going on to say he has seen no evidence of wrongdoing from his staff and listing some of the actions taken by his staff. This second list of actions (which is not the same as the list of actions we were told, and I wrote down at the meeting) is still just not accurate at all, at one point they are saying they visited my friend and that it was only ME that was present at his home, this just simply never happened . It has however finally given us something in writting. Something to enable us to prove they are lying:-). But what do you do with it ? Who do you take it to ? My friend has now been served with notices from the housing association. I advised him to see Citizens A,B. Who told him to go to the local council contact point where he lives. We went there and they said he had to speak to the people we had already dealt with and made us an appointment to go there for this Friday. I am worried about us attending this meeting, as I now understand how my friend feels. I also feel that everything that is said is twisted and that they can claim whatever they feel like claiming, without needing any proof what so ever. I am sure this can't be right, but I can't see any information on what my friends rights in this are. I can find plenty on how to report on, or prosecute on fraud. But nothing telling you what the rights of the accused are. I have found Housing Benefit Regulations etc, but they are not really very clear refering constantly to other acts, cases and legislations. So if I haven't sent you to sleep yet, all help would be soooo gratefully appreciated. Hopefully we can get it sorted and my friend can get his life back, come off of the anti-depressants and start sleeping again. Again Thank you So much for any help or advice you can give.

Hi, I hope I am posting in the right place here as I am a total newbee. I need some legal help on where we stand. and what we should now do for the best. I'll try to keep it short but it has been going on for 9 months. I have a disabled friend who lives in a housing association flat with his school age daughter. My friend lives on disability benefits after several bad back operations. They claim housing and council tax benefits. In Dec and Jan his mother was ill. Because he is disabled and his mother lives some 200 miles away, or so. He went to visit her 2-3 times during this period for a couple of weeksish at a time. He arranged for a friend of his to house sit his 16 year old daughter while he was away. When he came home toward the end of january he had a letter saying his housing and CT benefits had been suspended from 18th Jan and he needed to contact them. He did, and was told an unannounced visit had been made while he was away and a young female who was not his daughter had been letting herself into his flat and said she lived there. My Friend assumed his daughter had just had a friend staying over while he was away. Later it turned out the person was in fact the girlfriend of the person he had asked to housesit. So my friend let them know. They said they didn't believe him, that they wouldn't reinstate his benefit, that in order to have his benefit reinstated he needed to fill in a new application detailing his change of circumstances in the any change of circumstances area (there was no change of circumstances, his mother was ill, but nothing about His circumstances had changed ), be present at another unannounced visit and supply his (sick) mothers address (so they could contact her), his mothers doctors address (which he didn't have), His housesitting friends address (after this, they were not on the best of terms by this time), the housesitters girlfriends address (obviously he doesn't know that) and the address of his ex-wife (to prove his daughter lives with him). My friend refused to supply any addresses for various reasons. When told they would not be given the addresses the council representative became agressive abusive and threatening. He did fill in a new application (the same as his previous one) and agreed to another visit. Tellling them of a planned visit to his mother around the end of March and a holiday in May. To cut a long story short. They paid a visit on the 29th March and unsuprisingly my friend was at his mothers. However his daugter was in. He contacted them on his return and they said they'd visit again sometime within the next 2 weeks. My friend phoned every day to make sure he was not forgotten untill he recieved an automated message saying the offices were now shut for easter. Around June my friend asked for my help as he was getting very stressed by the whole thing. I asked where the paperwork was so I could look at it but the only paperwork he had received was the letter in January telling him his benefit had been suspended and a letter in May saying his benefit had been suspended and backdated to 3rd January, as there had been no contact after a visit. Both saying he needed to contact them. I asked him what visit did they mean on the one in May and he said he had no idea. I arranged to see someone from the council, who again said someone would be out within the next 2 weeks. My friend was worried about this after the aggressive way he had been dealt with, I said I would pop round regularly and he could phone me. The visiting team came and I sat as witness they asked if they could take my name and address incase they needed to contact me in the future. 2 weeks later I asked my friend if it was all sorted and he said he still hadn't heard anything. I arranged for us to go back into the council offices and speak to the person who had arranged the visit. The council then ran credit checks on me without any authorisation from me. We then went to the appointment, the person who had been abusive to my friend decided to also attend the meeting, She took over the meeting, told us she was the head of the fraud investigation and that my friend was officially under investigation, then proceeded to try to repeatedly verbally bully my friend untill in the end I asked her to stop doing it. At the end she said she wasn't satisfied he lived at his address and his claim was going to be cancelled from January 3rd but that his new claim would be paid from july 4th. That he would receive the decision in writing along with all documents to do with the investigation, including telephone calls, visits etc. That it would also include details on how he could appeal the decision. I took notes during this meeting as it was the only way we could have anything in writing telling us what they were alleging. Later I went through their list of events and found several of them that simply were not true. False allegations of visits they had made etc. 3 weeks later still nothing from them at all. This time I wrote to the Ms in charge. telling her in no uncertain terms that I was not happy at all about the way this had been conducted or her conduct throughout this investigation. That the matter had now been going on for too long, and that they had not even given my friend the opportunity to defend himself, as they had not written to him telling him what he was accused of. I gave her 7 days to bring the matter to an end one way or another or I would take further action. I then received a letter from her supervisor saying he was looking into my letter. I have since received a letter from the supervisor closing ranks and twisting the truth, with sayings like 'at the interview on' when there was no interview, it was a meeting that WE had called to try to get some/any information. Saying he has seen no evidence of wrongdoing and listing some of the actions taken by his staff. This list of actions is just not accurate at all, at one point they are saying they visited my friend and that it was only me present at his home, this just simply never happened. My friend has now been served with notices from the housing association. So i advised him to see Citizens A,B. Who told him to go to the local council contact point where he lives. We went there and they said he had to speak to the people we had already dealt with and made us an appointment for this Friday. I am worried about us attending this meeting, as I now understand how my friend feels and also feel that everything that is said is twisted and that they can claim whatever they feel like claiming without needing any proof what so ever. I am sure this can't be right, but I can't see any information on what my friends rights in this are. So if I haven't sent you to sleep, all help would be soooo gratefully appreciated. Hopefully we can get it sorted and my friend can come off of the anti-depressants and start sleeping again.